Bouncing/skipping controls - etiquette and tolerance

[Pickled Onion]

There's a ride this weekend with controls 13km apart, one free, one manned.  I'd rather not stop twice in half an hour if I can avoid it.

free control = quick ATM stop to get cash to spend at the manned control ?

Which is more-or-less what I did, and is the *wrong* *answer*. Riders "in the know" were having a slap-up breakfast at the earlier control. I, on the other hand, picked up a discarded receipt from the ATM and proceeded to the manned control.

Then I found out how hard it is to climb the gorge having just had a pub lunch and a couple of pints of Somerset's best, not having 13 km for it to settle in the stomach.

[BlackSheep]

Always a tricky subject to get the right balance, and when you do, it always seems inevitable that the balance is soon  lost. Having ridden people's events and done  a bit of organising stuff, I can appreciate the issue from all sides of the brevet card.
Audax rides haven't really changed that much since their inception 40 years ago. But in that time, riding audaxes has probably changed quite significantly, most of that change has happened in the last 5 or 6 ish years.
So now there's bound to be a difference in apparent fit, both parties probably need to compromise and respect the others' goals if everyone is to succeed.
So what has all this got to do with bouncing controls? Well quite a lot. Bikes generally have become much lighter, and the equipment carried by most has either reduced or also got lighter (sometimes both). So cyclists have become able to cover a greater distance before needing a pitstop. So, where as a decade ago everyone stopped a control to get both proof of passage and a re-fuel. Now all most need is to obtain the former. So its probably best that the organiser accepts the fact and offers a control that fits the bill. This may take the form of the controller in a bus shelter, and advising where "lite bites" or "full breakfasts" or "food to go" can be found. Everyone wins, cyclists get proof of passage and re-fuel or not, caterers get some business and controller gets their rider list compiled.
What happens if there's no compromise, controller sits in a cafe for a couple of hours. This costs the cafe owner in terms of lost income for the space taken by the controller. The cafe owner regards non-stop person as a worthless PITA.  Eventually the cafe will not be willing to support the event, result -everyone looses, but most of all anyone wishing to use the location for a control.
Of course there's the other side,  where there's nothing. So the organiser needs to provide something - typically a private hall. Again everyone wins, controller gets rider head-count, riders get proof of passage and re-fuel opportunity. What happens if organiser just nails a bag of stickers to a remote tree trunk at the end of a remote lane. Riders run the risk of not finding proof of passage and validation, possibly not being able to finish ride, almost certainly not going to ride the event again - maybe  not riding any future events offered by that organiser.
Then the riders have to consider the organiser, they (the organisers) spend considerable time and effort building-up and maintaining a rapport with commercial controls. Often requiring considerable investment from both parties. So riders, please don't be surprised if an organiser gets more than a little agitated if you decide to go to a location a few feet away from the official control to get your proof of passage. As DC posted up topic, no show at a control, you run the risk of no validation. And don't be surprised if the event doesn't feature in future calenders.
We all have to respect each other and be prepared to possibly compromise every so often.

[Malmesbury Monk]

Perhaps the perfect compromise in some respects is Black Sheep's use of the Tourist Information Centre at Hay on Wye as a control. The gentleman there when I called twice this year, was always pleased to stamp my brevet card without any expectation that I'd take away a holiday brochure or buy a souvenir pencil. Plus, there's a decent cafe on the opposite side of the road if you do need to refuel. Perhaps greater use of Tourist Information Centres could be made, although I appreciate that their opening times are restricted and sometimes only open in the summer. We are tourists of a kind, after all.

[BlackSheep]

Perhaps the perfect compromise in some respects is Black Sheep's use of the Tourist Information Centre at Hay on Wye as a control. The gentleman there when I called twice this year, was always pleased to stamp my brevet card without any expectation that I'd take away a holiday brochure or buy a souvenir pencil. Plus, there's a decent cafe on the opposite side of the road if you do need to refuel. Perhaps greater use of Tourist Information Centres could be made, although I appreciate that their opening times are restricted and sometimes only open in the summer. We are tourists of a kind, after all.

Interesting you mention that example Malmesbury Monk  ,  I always advise the Hay-on-Wye TIC that cyclists will be visiting the town to use the facilities at local cafes, sandwich bars etc, the staff in the TIC are only too pleased to stamp.

The same goes for the visitor centre below the Dean Heritage Café in Soudley. The cafe even stay open late for some events and retain the stamp after hours.

Everyone wins-

[Greenbank]

Good points...

So what has all this got to do with bouncing controls? Well quite a lot. Bikes generally have become much lighter, and the equipment carried by most has either reduced or also got lighter (sometimes both). So cyclists have become able to cover a greater distance before needing a pitstop. So, where as a decade ago everyone stopped a control to get both proof of passage and a re-fuel. Now all most need is to obtain the former.

For me it's about my fitness. On my first 200 I was very glad to see the garden centre cafe control at ~50km and then subsequent controls (with food) every 50km (I even stuffed my face at the arrivee before sloping off for the train home).

At the peak of fitness I was waking early (too early to stomach breakfast) to ride to the start of events and then sometimes bouncing the first control. I could do anything up to 150km on an empty stomach without any snacking either. Think of PBP with the first non-control/food-stop at Mortagne (140km) and first proper control at Villaines (210km) although there might have been a brief stop for a single pain-au-chocolate at the Bar des Sports in Chateauneuf-en-Thymerais.

The more I ride the more I'm getting used to eating on the move and keeping stopped time to a minimum. I think I managed to keep my stopped time down under 1h on a recent-ish 200 which is unheard of for me (I'd usually stop for around 2h on a 200). The controls on that ride certainly helped (all food included: bacon/egg butties, pasta and bread lunch, afternoon cakes).

[Ningishzidda]

Bounce cafes??

You miss being a judge in the Great Audax Bake Off.

[Greenbank]

I'm still (just) fast enough, and time poor, that cycling is about the moving not the stopping.

[rob]

I've got to the stage in my life where spare time is pretty important to me, meaning I press on round audaxes, when I do them, and try to get home at a reasonable time.   This generally means skipping in and out of controls or just stopping for a snack when I know there will be minimal waiting.   I eat mostly on the move now.

A lifetime of working the City means I can no longer handle the instances of 'Marjorie, where are the tongs' that goes on in the average out-of-town café.    I was almost ejected from Waitrose in Wymondham on the Green and Yellow Fields when, sick of waiting, I walked behind the counter and filled my own bottles.

There's café owners that will welcome a load of cyclists, staff up, and offer an efficient bike friendly menu and there's those that will simply be overwhelmed by any volume of people.

[mattc]

So what has all this got to do with bouncing controls? Well quite a lot. Bikes generally have become much lighter, and the equipment carried by most has either reduced or also got lighter (sometimes both). So cyclists have become able to cover a greater distance before needing a pitstop. So, where as a decade ago everyone stopped a control to get both proof of passage and a re-fuel. Now all most need is to obtain the former.

For me it's about my fitness. On my first 200 I was very glad to see the garden centre cafe control at ~50km and then subsequent controls (with food) every 50km (I even stuffed my face at the arrivee before sloping off for the train home).

At the peak of fitness I was waking early (too early to stomach breakfast) to ride to the start of events and then sometimes bouncing the first control. I could do anything up to 150km on an empty stomach without any snacking either.

There is no way that equipment improvement can make that kind of difference. Maybe in 50 years, not 5-6!  The variation in riderS' fitness will be more significant, probably trumped by their attitude (city boys like rob ), with variation in carbs/fat fueling also accounting for a lot of variation.

Bit of a distraction anyway, cos its the behaviour that matters here, not the reasons ...

[Ningishzidda]

Time is important to me too. If I commit a whole day to ride my bike, I make sure I get the fullest enjoyment out of it. That includes tasting the cake.

Rob. You need to unwind.

[Greenbank]

So what has all this got to do with bouncing controls? Well quite a lot. Bikes generally have become much lighter, and the equipment carried by most has either reduced or also got lighter (sometimes both). So cyclists have become able to cover a greater distance before needing a pitstop. So, where as a decade ago everyone stopped a control to get both proof of passage and a re-fuel. Now all most need is to obtain the former.

For me it's about my fitness. On my first 200 I was very glad to see the garden centre cafe control at ~50km and then subsequent controls (with food) every 50km (I even stuffed my face at the arrivee before sloping off for the train home).

At the peak of fitness I was waking early (too early to stomach breakfast) to ride to the start of events and then sometimes bouncing the first control. I could do anything up to 150km on an empty stomach without any snacking either.

There is no way that equipment improvement can make that kind of difference. Maybe in 50 years, not 5-6!  The variation in riderS' fitness will be more significant, probably trumped by their attitude (city boys like rob ), with variation in carbs/fat fueling also accounting for a lot of variation.

Bit of a distraction anyway, cos its the behaviour that matters here, not the reasons ...

That's why I said it was about fitness.

[Ningishzidda]

Its all about fitness. Having the ability to scream to the cafe to grab the biggest slice of cake.
And then spend a good time enjoying it before overtaking everyone to get to the next café for their biggest slice of cake.

[rob]

Rob. You need to unwind.

You're not the first person to tell me that.

[mattc]

...

That's why I said it was about fitness.

Yep, wasn't disagreeing with you 

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

My Audax nature is to be a hare rather than a tortoise.  So I prefer to stop at cafes.  I find it much nicer to sit inside, especially when the weather isn't great (which has been the case on my last 9 events) than shiver in the lee of a OneStop, SPAR, or Co-op.  They also feed my caffeine addiction with tea (which after nearly two weeks in Brazil is beginning to seem like some long-forgotten nectar) and usually the chance to have a bit of craic - "when you have egg and beans on toast should the egg go on top of the beans or the beans on top of the egg".  There is the odd occasion where I've been stuck longer than I wanted to, but generally organisers have picked cafes that can cope. 

And, back to the hare routine, I've lost count of the time I've sailed past riders who overtook me while I was in a cafe, but warm, caffeinated and charged with carbs I've been able to go flying past.  I wouldn't be dogmatic and suggest this approach to others, but it deffo works for me.

The only time I think about skipping a cafe is if the cafe stops are close together, but with the trend for more of the longer events to be X-rated these days that's generally not an issue.  Conversely, when I did the Mildenhall 200 with CET Junior (when he was 13), the frequent cafe stops were one of the reasons I selected the event so that there were plenty of sheltered rest stops for tired legs.

[ElyDave]

Which perfectly illustrates the various rationale for stopping.

I tried last week to get my 12 year old intrested in a 50 with offers of cake at beginning-middle-end. Still no takers

[inappropriate_bike]

Which perfectly illustrates the various rationale for stopping.

I tried last week to get my 12 year old intrested in a 50 with offers of cake at beginning-middle-end. Still no takers

Well, you've obviously waited too long to indoctrinate him. Should have started at 3-6 months when he could sit in a wee-ride

[alfapete]

And, back to the hare routine, I've lost count of the time I've sailed past riders who overtook me while I was in a cafe, but warm, caffeinated and charged with carbs I've been able to go flying past.  I wouldn't be dogmatic and suggest this approach to others, but it deffo works for me.

You think you're overtaking them on the road, but they KNOW they overtook you when you dawdled at the cafe!

[Feanor]

Heading a bit OT, but when planning DIYs a *major* consideration for me is 'where will I be eating?'.

I'll use a spreadsheet to estimate my expected times at not just controls, but various possible eateries along the way.
I'll have a plan in mind for where I'll be having 'proper' ( ie meal) stops.

This is driven mostly because my rides are often in more remote areas where if you skip one place to eat, the next maybe quite some distance away.

[rob]

Which perfectly illustrates the various rationale for stopping.

I tried last week to get my 12 year old intrested in a 50 with offers of cake at beginning-middle-end. Still no takers

Did 20 miles with my 9 year old on Saturday.   There were cafe stops at 6 and 15 miles.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Heading a bit OT, but when planning DIYs a *major* consideration for me is 'where will I be eating?'.

I'll use a spreadsheet to estimate my expected times at not just controls, but various possible eateries along the way.
I'll have a plan in mind for where I'll be having 'proper' ( ie meal) stops.

This is driven mostly because my rides are often in more remote areas where if you skip one place to eat, the next maybe quite some distance away.

Yep - have this on the Cambrian Series permanents - another reason to relish cafes on an organised event - the worst was the faint hope that the Mallwyd petrol station might operate 24 hours dashed

[rabbit]

And, back to the hare routine, I've lost count of the time I've sailed past riders who overtook me while I was in a cafe, but warm, caffeinated and charged with carbs I've been able to go flying past.  I wouldn't be dogmatic and suggest this approach to others, but it deffo works for me.

You're probably just quicker than them tbh CET!

[BlackSheep]

And, back to the hare routine, I've lost count of the time I've sailed past riders who overtook me while I was in a cafe, but warm, caffeinated and charged with carbs I've been able to go flying past.  I wouldn't be dogmatic and suggest this approach to others, but it deffo works for me.

You're probably just quicker than them tbh CET!

+1 to that

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

And, back to the hare routine, I've lost count of the time I've sailed past riders who overtook me while I was in a cafe, but warm, caffeinated and charged with carbs I've been able to go flying past.  I wouldn't be dogmatic and suggest this approach to others, but it deffo works for me.

You're probably just quicker than them tbh CET!

But I ride a lot quicker when fuelled by a decent bacon butty and mug of tea than I do without 

+1 to that

[Martin]

I bounce 75% of commercial controls because generally they waste time I could spend riding, if the control has extended it's opening times or hired extra staff I will of course support it.

I don't use any commercial controls on any of my own events as it's just more things to fret over on the day, on my 200 It's any PoP from the controls which everyone seems to get on with

Problem with cafes in the UK is that they are a major social event for everyone apart from AUK riders IMO