Author Topic: eBay payment difficulties! (Read 5523 times)

donpedro · « **on:** 05 May, 2008, 03:30:15 pm »

I won the bidding for a set of brakes and leaver at £85 + £14 for postage.
Now the seller in Newcastle want me to send a Postal Order or Bankers draft witch is another £18! I have asked the guy repeatedly for a alternative payment method using bank or IBAN transfer from my bank account to his, but so far he has refused.

I know I should have checked more carefully before but I never thought the cost of postage and payment would amount to over 1/3 of sales price!

Can't understand why someone wouldn't agree to a bank transfer or using PayPal or am I asking for to much? Is there really any reason for him not to agree to a bank transfer?
Is there another cheap alternative?

Lonewolff · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 May, 2008, 03:34:10 pm »

The post office charge 8.75% and the maximum cost of a postal order is £8.75 I think.

donpedro · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 May, 2008, 03:43:26 pm »

Sorry, think I was bit unclear!
I am sending the payment from Sweden and at the postoffice they said it is 220SKr witch would come to £18,02. But then there is no charge at his end. Is there no other cheaper way I wounder...?

hellymedic · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 May, 2008, 03:57:56 pm »

Quote from: Peter on 05 May, 2008, 03:30:15 pm

Can't understand why someone wouldn't agree to a bank transfer or using PayPal or am I asking for to much? Is there really any reason for him not to agree to a bank transfer?
Is there another cheap alternative?

Some people do not have bank accounts.
Some people do not wish to leave a 'paper trail' of their money's movement.
Some people try to sell goods on eBay when they do not have the right to sell them.

Maybe I malign your seller.
I am an eBay newbie, having bought my second item there last night. I only joined eBay 2 months ago.

I'm sorry, I don't know about cheaper ways of transferring money. (I know eBay advises strongly against Western Union.)

Biggsy · « **Reply #4 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:00:10 pm »

What payment methods were stated in the eBay item listing? It is unreasonable to expect a seller to accept any other method. Also it is reasonable for a seller to ask the buyer to pay compensation for wasted time and relisting costs if they can't pay by one of the stated methods.

It is possible to use the details given for a bank transfer for identity theft. This was hilariously done to Jeremy Clarkson after he claimed it was impossible. See http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9846379-46.html

Not everyone has or wants a PayPal account. That's their personal decision.

Biggsy · « **Reply #5 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:08:31 pm »

For overseas eBay sellers, you really are best avoiding those who don't accept PayPal.

In this case I would ask the seller to reconsider opening a PayPal account. Offer to add an extra fiver for helping you. Moneybookers is a respectable alternative to PayPal - though it's not quick or easy to open an account. ~~If the seller is not willing to open either of these accounts then I think you should just cough up and get that postal order. You've got to pay for your mistake, unfortunately.~~

donpedro · « **Reply #6 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:23:42 pm »

Hellimedic, that might be true in some cases. But this seller has a eBay shop and I think that would be hard to set up without a account. He must be aware of the cost he's inflexibility causes his customers.
Found this info about IBAN/BIC transfers and it seem to be both quicker and cheaper:
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Non-Paypal-International-Payments-made-easy_W0QQugidZ10000000001235915

Is there any reason for the buyer or seller to feel unprotected?

Biggsy, I will allways honer my part of the deal and pay up!
Just can't see the reason for his refusal.
In the ad I believe there was two options stated, Bank transfer or Postal order. But when I received the confirmation nothing was said about bank transfer witch surprised me as I was aware that a PO might be costly. I also asked for a quote before for postage and handling. The cost for a PO was not mentioned then. It's PayPal all the way from here on.

The fee at Western is also quite high: 190SEK/15,56GBP
A Moneytransfer it is a bit lower: 150SKr/12,28GBP but the service is not available in UK. http://www.moneygram.com/MGI/index.htm
Why is Western Union not safe?

Biggsy · « **Reply #7 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:35:44 pm »

Quote from: Peter on 05 May, 2008, 04:23:42 pm

In the ad I believe there was two options stated, Bank transfer or Postal order.

In that case, he should accept a bank transfer from you (as long as that method was not excluded to UK buyers, and the item was listed as available for UK buyers). If he doesn't, at the risk of you receiving unjustified Negative feedback, you would be entitled to refuse to pay and report him to eBay.

He may be having second thoughts for security reasons (but he shouldn't have mentioned transfers in the listing in the first place), or he may be a fraudster (though that is unlikely for low-value bike parts).

Western Union is famously popular with fraudsters, presumably because only minimal proof of identity is required.

I don't know why, but PayPal is not as popular in mainland Europe as it is in the rest of the world. I would buy more stuff from Europe if only it was.

bobb · « **Reply #8 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:44:44 pm »

PayPal is almost (but not quite as bad as WU). As far as I'm aware (and I'm going a bit OT here) PayPal aren't a *real* bank.

Sure, I use it all the time. But I make sure the amounts are not enough to ever make me go hungry if I lost it!

AFAIA, Paypal don't have to follow the rules and regs that all the other banks do (Worldwide). Maybe someone in the industry can clear that up? Roger?

A friend of mine keeps thousands in his PayPal account and I've told him a million times to get that money the fuck out of there, because if PayPal decide he doesn't have any money in that account, there's nothing he can do to get it back. No rules. No laws. Nothing......

Jakob · « **Reply #9 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:52:27 pm »

Quote from: Biggsy on 05 May, 2008, 04:00:10 pm

and relisting costs if they can't pay by one of the stated methods.

If he marks the transaction as incomplete, he wont have to pay the fees.

Biggsy · « **Reply #10 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:54:58 pm »

PayPal aren't immune from the laws of theft.

I find PayPal very convenient and safe. I've got full refunds via their Dispute system after not receiving goods and services, so I'm very grateful I did use PayPal on those occasions. It's not wise to leave a lot of money in the account though - because they don't pay interest.

My only complaint is over the level of fees when receiving money with a Premium account. They are too high. How much profit do eBay (owners of PayPal) need to make?

Biggsy · « **Reply #11 on:** 05 May, 2008, 04:57:10 pm »

Quote from: Jakob on 05 May, 2008, 04:52:27 pm

Quote from: Biggsy on 05 May, 2008, 04:00:10 pm
and relisting costs if they can't pay by one of the stated methods.

If he marks the transaction as incomplete, he wont have to pay the fees.

OK, but the seller's time is a cost, too.

donpedro · « **Reply #12 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:02:36 pm »

Thanks Biggsy for the good advice! I have sent him that proposal and if he refuse I'll just get the PO and be done with it.

Must say UK seller seem very suspicious and/or comfortable. All to often you see "local pick up only" or "Post to: United Kingdom" as the only options, even though eBay is a international market place!
Excluding European and other well functioning countries is just bad business, and I guess, a sign of some sort of prevailing "bunker mentality"! There is a completely different attitude in the US/Canada even though the cost, need for careful packaging and time taken to do the necessary transfers is even greater! It get´s a bit tedious writing lots of messages asking the same questions all over again!

Jakob · « **Reply #13 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:08:14 pm »

We had to use the paypal dispute once. My girlfriend bought some shoes that was not the size advertised. Seller did not respond to any emails, etc. Finally, when paypal send the seller the final warning, the seller responded (death in family, hence no communication, although they've been busy listing and selling other items).
As per paypals instructions, we return the item to the seller, via recorded mail. We email the confirmation code to paypal, who then refuses to pay, because the initial of the person who signed for it, because the name of the seller did not match the name of the person signing for the item. There was a 1 letter difference, which was obviously a typo from the Royal Mail OCR software/person.
I send off a complaint. 3 months later, I get an email from paypal, asking what it was I was complaining about, because they can't find anything in their records. I didn't even bother replying.
Convenient, yes, trustworthy, no.

Biggsy · « **Reply #14 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:16:07 pm »

I can understand private individuals not wanting sell high-value goods to overseas buyers -- because fraudsters can take advantage*, and costs of refunding return shipping** can be prohibitive -- but otherwise I agree it's a silly bunker mentaility.

I always make the little bits & pieces I sell on Fleabay available worldwide, and I've sold to many dfferent countries.

* eg. by paying too much by "mistake" and asking for change, when the "payment" was actually a fake payment.

** which you might have to do if the item was not as described.

Biggsy · « **Reply #15 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:21:35 pm »

I trust PayPal at least for straightforward cases that can be sorted out by the automated system (eg. when no goods are recieved and the seller does not respond). More complicated cases would need more human beings employed, which would put up the fees even higher.

donpedro · « **Reply #16 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:35:49 pm »

Jacob, that's really bad form! Seem like If the seller want to they can back out or mess up a deal even though payment was made with PayPal. But maybe you should be a bit more vigilant and contact them earlier?

Biggsy, What's your impression when it comes to dealing with customers overseas? Are they more reluctant to sort their end of the deal? Any issues with PayPal? I ask as I have a pile of parts I might put up for sale.
Think Jacob's experience, and other that I heard of, show it's a lot easier to get ripped off as a buyer that as a seller.

diapsaon0 · « **Reply #17 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:43:30 pm »

I've bought things from overseas before and have taken the risk of sending cash, usually Euros, through the post using registered mail. I'd maybe be cautious, though, for the amount you need to send. Can you arrange for a friend in UK to pay by cheque and send the money yourself to the friend?

N

Biggsy · « **Reply #18 on:** 05 May, 2008, 05:58:49 pm »

So far I've had no more trouble overall with overseas buyers (and sellers) than UK ones. I've had a few payment delays, and a couple of things I sent got delayed/lost, but this is rare and happens occasionally within the UK as well.

Yes it is easier to get ripped off as a buyer than as a seller. When selling, usually the worst that will happen is a bit of time wasting. But still I am more cautious when dealing with values that I can't aford to loose.

donpedro · « **Reply #19 on:** 05 May, 2008, 08:44:06 pm »

Just received a new invoice were he reduce the cost for postage from £14 to £10 so this answers the question I mailed him almost a week ago.
Wounder how long it will take him to get back with an answer to the three emails I sent him concerning payment methods early this evening...!

donpedro · « **Reply #20 on:** 06 May, 2008, 09:37:10 am »

Wow! Received both a new invoice and a email saying he's open for business via PayPal! Payment done and with this speed I should have those brakes before evening I guess...
Thanks for the input everyone!

http://www.weboria.com/bike_bits_img/bike_bits_img.html

Jakob · « **Reply #21 on:** 06 May, 2008, 10:06:28 am »

Quote from: Peter on 05 May, 2008, 05:35:49 pm

Jacob, that's really bad form! Seem like If the seller want to they can back out or mess up a deal even though payment was made with PayPal. But maybe you should be a bit more vigilant and contact them earlier?

We followed Ebay & Paypals instructions to letter, only for Paypal to let us down. Yeah, seller tried to avoid swapping around, but in the end, they also just did what was instructed from Paypal...although the seller ended up with our money and their item.
I could have pursued it further with Paypal, but to be honest, I just couldn't be arsed.

bobb · « **Reply #22 on:** 06 May, 2008, 10:41:58 am »

Quote from: Biggsy on 05 May, 2008, 04:54:58 pm

PayPal aren't immune from the laws of theft.

I wasn't suggesting that they were, Pete. I doubt very much that the founders of PayPal are out to rip people off. However, they do not have to stick to the rules applied to "official" banks.

I've written reams of payment gateway software over the years and I can assure you, PayPal do not honour transactions in the same way that "real" banks do.

Author Topic: eBay payment difficulties! (Read 5523 times)

Lonewolff

Jakob

Jakob

Jakob