Bye Lance

[LEE]

Doping tests alone should be used to catch doping cheats, not testimony of people with an axe to grind.

Using testimony still leaves a door open for a "I never tested positive" retort.

Maybe, as mentioned above, it's in the interest of these bodies to keep this case open forever, it keeps them in funding presumably and gives them a high profile.


 

[HoundBiker]

Doping tests alone should be used to catch doping cheats, not testimony of people with an axe to grind.

Using testimony still leaves a door open for a "I never tested positive" retort.

Maybe, as mentioned above, it's in the interest of these bodies to keep this case open forever, it keeps them in funding presumably and gives them a high profile.


 

The tests don't work, that is the whole point. And even when they do, they don't, like the magical TUE for saddle sore 'cream' and the 20 minute 'shower', if you know what I mean.

[simonp]

How many tests did Millar fail?

[Exit Stage Left]

We're stuck with Lance until another English-speaking rider wins seven Tours in a row.

[rafletcher]

How many tests did Millar fail?

Got me thinking about why he didn't. Of course his (admitted) doping was in "preparation" for races rather than during competitive races, but it's a bit surprising that the random out-of-competition checks didn't catch him out. But then they never got a positive from Lance either, despite apparently regular random testing. Maybe Millar wasn't tested that often?

So perhaps the question should be how did Millar (and many others no  doubt) get away with it?

[Feline]

I think Millar's book explains in full how they got (and currently get) away with it.

[simonp]

I think Millar's book explains in full how they got (and currently get) away with it.

2009 Interview with Michael Ashenden on Armstrong's 1999 B samples testing positive for EPO:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

A lot of detail about the process and the positives (and the fact that the EPO level varied suggesting top-up doses during the tour).

He also had a more recent interview about Contador which basically says Contador *was* blood doping during the 2010 tour.

This one is quite long, I got about 1/3 way through before deciding I haven't time to read all of this just now, but it's compelling reading just like the Contador one. The half-life of EPO is so short and the effect so long-lived that you don't need to dope during the Tour though, so dosing 4 days before the tour gives a significant benefit and the risk of a random test catching you out is small. This is probably how they got away with it. In 1999 there was zero risk because there was no test, but retrospective analysis of the samples with the test for synthetic EPO changes that.

[Jakob]

Part of me can't help thinking that this is a desperate attempt by the USADA to redeem itself after the  Barry Bonds/Roger Clemens affairs. If they fail again, then I'm sorry to say that the organisation needs to be tossed out an re-built.

[Regulator]

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency brought formal doping charges against former cyclist Lance Armstrong - Washington Post

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency brought formal doping charges against former cyclist Lance Armstrong in an action that could cost him his seven Tour de France titles, according to a letter sent to Armstrong and several others Tuesday.

As a result of the charges, Armstrong has been immediately banned from competition in triathlons, a sport he took up after his retirement from cycling in 2011.

In the 15-page charging letter obtained by The Post, USADA made previously unpublicized allegations against Armstrong, alleging it collected blood samples from Armstrong in 2009 and 2010 that were “fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.” Armstrong has never tested positive.

The evidence seems a bit flimsy to me, I don't know how they think it'll stick this time.

The vidence isn't flimsy at all.  The USADA just doesn't have to make full disclosure at this time and the letter clearly states that it is outling a portion of the evidence.

[spesh]

Shamelessly nicked from elsewhere - an amateur triathlete doesn't take the news too well...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ia6dV_G5UxE&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ia6dV_G5UxE&rel=1</a>

Downfall - the meme that keeps on giving.

[Exit Stage Left]

If they'd inserted, 'or have dealt with cancer' at about 50 seconds it would have worked even better, but the subtitles were already a bit crowded.

[Rhys W]

Good article by William Fotheringham.

[Jaded]

He's been charged now.

[Nuncio]

Wow.  Names of cyclists who will testify against Armstrong published. Cyclingnews story.

Four former teammates of Lance Armstrong will receive six month bans after they confessed to doping and testified against the seven-time Tour de France winner, according to De Telegraaf.

George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie are said to have given evidence in the USADA investigation which has charged Armstrong with doping. All four riders are currently taking part in the Tour de France, but in recent weeks, USA Cycling revealed they opted not to be considered for the Olympic Games.

+Vaughters.
Ban to start after the Vuelta.

[clarion]

Oh my goodness, that's a lot of big names who know what they're talking about preparedto testify at great personal cost.

[citoyen]

I think it's more that they have nothing to gain than anything to lose that makes them credible witnesses. The culture has changed - there's probably still doping but there's no omertà. It's hardly the principled stand of a Bassons or a Simeoni.

And who knows, maybe the USADA has information about these riders that it's using to blackmail them...

(Not that you'd imagine they could have anything on Zabriskie.)

d.

[Nuncio]

The only thing they have to gain is a reduced ban starting at a time of year which will minimize the impact of that ban.  What they have to lose is reputation, I guess, in the eyes of the American public.  And no doubt they'll be receiving the vitriol of the American Lance fans.  Why aren't these riders considering the poor cancer sufferers?

[Tewdric]

It looks like the bubble might burst then.  I'm sure the ASO will delight in stripping him of his yellow jerseys when the time comes..

[Jaded]

If he cheated then it is right that people stand up with evidence against him. To not do so is as bad as cheating itself.

[citoyen]

The only thing they have to gain is a reduced ban starting at a time of year which will minimize the impact of that ban.  What they have to lose is reputation, I guess, in the eyes of the American public.

Surely no one believes Vaughters or Zabriskie have ever doped? The others maybe, but not those two. Ergo, they have absolutely nothing to gain from fingering Lance.

Edit: Well, I've just read that they've both confessed, so if that's true... fuck knows. I'm speechless.

Zabriskie? FFS.

d.

[Honest John]

The only thing they have to gain is a reduced ban starting at a time of year which will minimize the impact of that ban.  What they have to lose is reputation, I guess, in the eyes of the American public.

Surely no one believes Vaughters or Zabriskie have ever doped? The others maybe, but not those two. Ergo, they have absolutely nothing to gain from fingering Lance.

Edit: Well, I've just read that they've both confessed, so if that's true... fuck knows. I'm speechless.

Zabriskie? FFS.

d.

And he's a vegan FFS. I'd've though his Body Was A Temple, if you know what I mean.

[simonp]

The only thing they have to gain is a reduced ban starting at a time of year which will minimize the impact of that ban.  What they have to lose is reputation, I guess, in the eyes of the American public.

Surely no one believes Vaughters or Zabriskie have ever doped? The others maybe, but not those two. Ergo, they have absolutely nothing to gain from fingering Lance.

Edit: Well, I've just read that they've both confessed, so if that's true... fuck knows. I'm speechless.

Zabriskie? FFS.

d.

And he's a vegan FFS. I'd've though his Body Was A Temple, if you know what I mean.

Don't know many vegans, then?

They're all at it, aren't they.

[Honest John]

The only thing they have to gain is a reduced ban starting at a time of year which will minimize the impact of that ban.  What they have to lose is reputation, I guess, in the eyes of the American public.

Surely no one believes Vaughters or Zabriskie have ever doped? The others maybe, but not those two. Ergo, they have absolutely nothing to gain from fingering Lance.

Edit: Well, I've just read that they've both confessed, so if that's true... fuck knows. I'm speechless.

Zabriskie? FFS.

d.

And he's a vegan FFS. I'd've though his Body Was A Temple, if you know what I mean.

Don't know many vegans, then?

They're all at it, aren't they.

Well, they don't eat anything, according to Uncle Phil, so they have to get their energy from somewhere 

[Karla]

The only thing they have to gain is a reduced ban starting at a time of year which will minimize the impact of that ban.  What they have to lose is reputation, I guess, in the eyes of the American public.

Surely no one believes Vaughters or Zabriskie have ever doped? The others maybe, but not those two. Ergo, they have absolutely nothing to gain from fingering Lance.

Edit: Well, I've just read that they've both confessed, so if that's true... fuck knows. I'm speechless.

Zabriskie? FFS.

d.

Vaughters denies it, it seems the Dutch press have shot their mouths off.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Conversation recalled from about 20 years ago:
A offering B some whisky: Do you drink?
C interjecting before B can answer: Does he drink? He's vegetarian, he drinks like a fish!