Author Topic: Bye Lance  (Read 285399 times)

Toady

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #650 on: 11 October, 2012, 10:23:05 am »
Is this all a cunning publicity setup for Armstrong's new book?  "You got me guvnor, bang to rights"
"It's all about the Drugs"?
"It's mostly about the drugs, but some of it's about the transfusions".

Snappy title, eh?

LEE

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #651 on: 11 October, 2012, 10:33:37 am »
I'm just a bit disappointed that Leipheimer's testimony is still 100% conjecture and rumour.

I was expecting him to say "Lance was on the next bed to me with tubes pumping him full of a steaming red broth"

I don't need any more "Floyd Landis said Lance is cheating"

Read the judgment - it is all there.  There is testimony from the likes of Hincapie saying pretty much that Lance had red steaming blood pumped into him.

I was a Lance supporter (I've camped overnight on the side of a road to see him pass), then a doubter, and now I am utterly convinced that he cheated.

It really is in black and white.

That's not my point.  I don't doubt he was doping any more.

I was questioning the usefulness of Leipheimer's testimony, it really says nothing about Lance worth a damn.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #652 on: 11 October, 2012, 10:36:55 am »
Yes it does, it adds to the accusations that Armstrong coerced people into taking drugs and also to not reveal evidence against him.


Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #653 on: 11 October, 2012, 10:58:49 am »
McQuaid and Verbruggen must be shitting themselves now - if the money trail leads directly to their door...

Then there are the many and varied business connections. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be off out for marshmallows and pop-corn.
Beer & chilli peanuts for me. The peanuts are much better for throwing than popcorn.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #654 on: 11 October, 2012, 11:08:46 am »
LIVESTRONG

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #655 on: 11 October, 2012, 11:12:55 am »
Stronger living through chemistry.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #656 on: 11 October, 2012, 12:32:31 pm »
I bet Phil Ligget isn't answering his phone today.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #657 on: 11 October, 2012, 12:40:14 pm »
I bet Phil Ligget isn't answering his phone today.

I bet a lot of people aren't answering their phones today.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

fuzzy

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #658 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:05:04 pm »
Is this all a cunning publicity setup for Armstrong's new book?  "You got me guvnor, bang to rights"
"It's all about the Drugs"?
"It's mostly about the drugs, but some of it's about the transfusions".

Snappy title, eh?

he has already used the correct title.

'Its not about the bike' is spot on, just needs a bit of a rewrite.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #659 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:15:27 pm »
I'm still a bit confused about what USADA are trying to do. If they're using Armstrong as a glamorous hook to show that UCI are not enforcing doping rules and are not fit to be in charge of cycling worldwide - what's their aim in that? Are they concerned mostly with the doping or is this a court coup? Or what?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Thor

  • Super-sonnicus idioticus
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #660 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:23:25 pm »
It was a day like any other in Ireland, only it wasn't raining

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #661 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:28:03 pm »
I'm somewhat shocked by the part where the report says that a doping tester was left waiting for 20 mins and he ignored requests to stay within an area that permitted observation. Why was that not an immediate fail? Bloody pointless administering the tests at all in that case.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Andrew

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #662 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:29:09 pm »
I'm still a bit confused about what USADA are trying to do. If they're using Armstrong as a glamorous hook to show that UCI are not enforcing doping rules and are not fit to be in charge of cycling worldwide - what's their aim in that? Are they concerned mostly with the doping or is this a court coup? Or what?

My take - the former that has inevitably led to the latter.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #663 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:44:04 pm »

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #664 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:45:27 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19910165

Quote
British cyclist Alex Dowsett believes Lance Armstrong remains "a legend of the sport" despite the doping accusations against the American.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency banned Armstrong for life and stripped him of his seven Tour de France titles.

Team Sky rider Dowsett, 24, said: "He is still a legend of the sport. A guy who had cancer came back and won the Tour de France.

"I think it's not really important and I really don't think it matters."

Quote
Dowsett joined Team Sky for the 2011 season from the US-based Trek-LiveStrong squad - an under-23 development team created by Armstrong to nurture emerging talent.

 :facepalm:
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #665 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:50:00 pm »

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Bye Lance
« Reply #666 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:53:23 pm »
I'm still a bit confused about what USADA are trying to do. If they're using Armstrong as a glamorous hook to show that UCI are not enforcing doping rules and are not fit to be in charge of cycling worldwide - what's their aim in that? Are they concerned mostly with the doping or is this a court coup? Or what?

The USADA are, unsurprisingly, primarily concerned with the behaviour of US athletes and teams. They picked up the baton after the US federal court dropped its investigation. (Given the extent and depth of their findings, I wonder if the federal case might be re-opened.)

Other teams and the UCI are outside their remit (though clearly their revelations constitute quite a broadside against the UCI). However, I've read this morning that the Belgian authorities are planning their own investigation into Bruyneel.

It really should be up to the UCI to be investigating this stuff, but their complicity kind of precludes it. Instead they'd rather go after the likes of Kimmage for daring to speak out.

McQuaid and Verbruggen really are despicable cowards.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Bye Lance
« Reply #667 on: 11 October, 2012, 01:56:37 pm »
Maybe WADA should be thinking about sanctioning the UCI in some way. I don't know what options are open to them. I suppose the worst case scenario is that cycling is struck off the list of Olympic sports. Can't see that happening though.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #668 on: 11 October, 2012, 02:05:14 pm »
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/belgian-federation-forwards-bruyneel-charges-to-federal-prosecutor

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-stunned-by-usada-disclosures

From what I've read elsewhere, Sean Yates was being put under pressure on the radio earlier today. What with Geert Leinders being let go (just ahead of a court case involving Michael Rasmussen and his ertswhile employers, the Rabobank team ;) ), Michael Barry confessing, and Michael Rogers being named in one of the affadavits, it's not looking too good on the PR front for Team Sky. The problem for Dave Brailsford is that the ethical employment policy touted in 2010 has painted the team into a corner. With hindsight,  they might have been better off adopting the model used by Jonathan Vaughters at Garmin - take on people who may have had a dodgy past, but only on condition of full disclosure, and a cast-iron commitment to staying clean thereafter, and if that requires watching the riders and support staff like hawks, so be it...
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #669 on: 11 October, 2012, 02:09:37 pm »
I'm still unsure how far USADA want this to go though. I suppose their plan is that convicting the sport's biggest name will encourage plus d'autres than going after each still participating rider individually and hopefully they're right because otherwise why put so much effort into once case who's retired? Well, that and the ringleader aspect.

Whose jurisdiction do Ferrari, Dr Marti, etc fall under?

As for the UCI they can't come out of this any way other than smelling of shit, but it's hard to see much changing there - these bodies, UCI, FIFA, etc, seem incestuous, changing their directors doesn't seem to alter how they function.

Of course we can but hope that USADA have started something which will spread beyond cycling to other sports which undoubtedly have their own problems.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #670 on: 11 October, 2012, 02:09:55 pm »
I'm most concerned that the data from what would seem to have been a very interesting and prolonged experiment is preserved. The most positive aspect of drawing a line under the doping period is that previously clandestine data can enter the public domain.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #671 on: 11 October, 2012, 02:10:58 pm »
Maybe WADA should be thinking about sanctioning the UCI in some way. I don't know what options are open to them. I suppose the worst case scenario is that cycling is struck off the list of Olympic sports. Can't see that happening though.

d.
I can't see that being struck off the Olympics would matter as much to cycling as to, say, athletics.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #672 on: 11 October, 2012, 04:48:52 pm »
Regarding the furore over Alex Dowsett's comments, as reported on the BBC, it's interesting to note that the Beeb's report has now been edited:

Quote
British cyclist Alex Dowsett believes Lance Armstrong remains "a legend of the sport" but could not shake his hand in light of recent doping allegations.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency banned Armstrong for life and stripped him of his seven Tour de France titles.

Team Sky rider Dowsett, 24, said on Thursday morning: "He is still a legend of the sport. A guy who had cancer came back and won the Tour de France."

However, he later told BBC Sport: "I don't think I could shake his hand."

If you read Dowsett's Twitter feed, he says that he wasn't entire clear with his earlier remarks and then goes on to say that "what Lance has done is completely unacceptable."

If I was a more cynical person, I'd say that the BBC were indulging a spot of shit-stirring, because of who sponsors the team Dowsett rides for.  :demon:
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #673 on: 11 October, 2012, 05:57:40 pm »

I was questioning the usefulness of Leipheimer's testimony, it really says nothing about Lance worth a damn.

It is, however, direct testimony that Bruyneel was putting pressure on to riders to dope. And that is entirely relevant as the case is more than just Lance, and Bruyneel is DS for a US registered team.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #674 on: 12 October, 2012, 09:02:35 am »

I was questioning the usefulness of Leipheimer's testimony, it really says nothing about Lance worth a damn.

It is, however, direct testimony that Bruyneel was putting pressure on to riders to dope. And that is entirely relevant as the case is more than just Lance, and Bruyneel is DS for a US registered team.

Most of the time it doesn't seem like it.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)