Author Topic: Bye Lance  (Read 283460 times)

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #675 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:15:50 am »
He's the biggie, and of all the cases that have concluded, he is the only one maintaining a complete denial.

From my point of view, in as much as I give a toss, the big names need to fall.... no matter how distant the offence.  Look what happened to all his main rivals..why it never happened to him is the big question. Everybody knew.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #676 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:25:07 am »
Respect to Spartacus (though you have to wonder if he was only fooling himself if he didn't have a clue sooner)...

Quote
@friebos Cancellara: 'Bruyneel's name appears in 129 of the 200 pages. I don't know if I can still work with him.' via @sport_nieuws

Full story (in Dutch): http://www.nu.nl/sport/2932149/cancellara-twijfelt-samenwerking-met-bruyneel.html
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Justin(e)

  • On my way out of here
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #677 on: 12 October, 2012, 12:04:39 pm »
Respect to Spartacus (though you have to wonder if he was only fooling himself if he didn't have a clue sooner)...

Quote
@friebos Cancellara: 'Bruyneel's name appears in 129 of the 200 pages. I don't know if I can still work with him.' via @sport_nieuws

Full story (in Dutch): http://www.nu.nl/sport/2932149/cancellara-twijfelt-samenwerking-met-bruyneel.html

Methinks that Fabian will not have to trouble himself too much with that question.  Others will have answered it for him by the time he starts his season.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #678 on: 12 October, 2012, 12:29:51 pm »
I bet Phil Ligget isn't answering his phone today.

Ned Boulting showed up on the TV news yesterday, and raised the UCI issue when the UKADA person didn't.

Toady

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #679 on: 12 October, 2012, 01:16:14 pm »
I bet Phil Ligget isn't answering his phone today.

Ned Boulting showed up on the TV news yesterday, and raised the UCI issue when the UKADA person didn't.
Small piece by Ned Boulting in the Metro this morning.  Fairly lightweight and doesn't say much - a bit like the Metro really
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/914789-i-always-knew-lance-armstrong-would-one-day-fall-from-grace-ned-boulting

(Actually, that's a bit harsh on the Metro, they have better science coverage than many broadsheets)

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #680 on: 12 October, 2012, 02:33:22 pm »
Respect to Spartacus (though you have to wonder if he was only fooling himself if he didn't have a clue sooner)...

Quote
@friebos Cancellara: 'Bruyneel's name appears in 129 of the 200 pages. I don't know if I can still work with him.' via @sport_nieuws

Full story (in Dutch): http://www.nu.nl/sport/2932149/cancellara-twijfelt-samenwerking-met-bruyneel.html

Methinks that Fabian will not have to trouble himself too much with that question.  Others will have answered it for him by the time he starts his season.

Leaving aside what happens to Bruyneel, it's worth noting that one of the team's sponsors is heading up the creek without a paddle  - Radio Shack appear to be struggling financially, and have lost two CEOs this year...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/business/james-gooch-radioshacks-chief-executive-steps-down.html?_r=0

EDIT: It's been suggested that Bruyneel opted for arbitration only so that it would delay the point at which Team RSNT stopped paying him and gave him the heave-ho. The Bruyneel question may be answered well before next season starts if Luxembourg media RTL are to be believed:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-bruyneel-could-be-sacked-today
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #681 on: 12 October, 2012, 03:50:11 pm »
Justin(e) was right, possibly sooner than expected...

https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/256766686793965569
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #682 on: 12 October, 2012, 04:23:05 pm »
Confirmed in Lux media: http://www.wort.lu/de/view/jetzt-offiziell-radioshack-nissan-trek-trennt-sich-von-johan-bruyneel-50782cf3e4b0069dd6579303

In the meantime, David Millar has called for Verbruggen to go: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/david-millar-calls-on-verbruggen-to-step-down-from-uci

Former Motorola rider Brian Smith - now manager of Endura Racing Team - believes he was dropped from the squad because he refused to dope (Daily Mail link, but as it's not an op-ed from any of the regular scribblers, I see no need to apologise  ;)):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2216492/Lance-Armstrong-latest-Brian-Smith-told-cyclist-hed-drugs-sacked.html#ixzz295WvcMJ9

I note that Roger Hammond has said that Armstrong never mentioned doping, or suggested that he dope when he rode for Discovery, though he was riding more of a Classics-based race calendar, where the need for O2-vector doping was less pronounced. Or maybe the team didn't think he was good enough to ride a Grand Tour, ergo there was no need to sound him out. :demon:

Which led me to wonder about another British erstwhile team-mate of Armstrong, Jamie Burrow - there's a telling comment in the first of the two Pez Cycling interviews...

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=10710
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7559
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8811&status=True&catname=Latest%20News
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #683 on: 12 October, 2012, 05:04:27 pm »
The boil has been burst.

It's going to be very messy for some time to come. Pus everywhere. I hope we've all got lids on our popcorn.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #684 on: 12 October, 2012, 05:35:09 pm »
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radioshack-nissan-cut-ties-with-bruyneel

Quote
“Acting in mutual agreement, on October 12 Leopard SA and Johan Bruyneel decided to end their collaboration. From this day on, Johan Bruyneel will no longer act in the position of General Manager of cycling team RADIOSHACK NISSAN TREK,” a statement from the Luxembourg-based team reads.

“The Reasoned Decision published by the USADA included a number of testimonies as a result of their investigation. In light of these testimonies, both parties feel it is necessary to make this decision since Johan Bruyneel can no longer direct the Team in an efficient and comfortable way. His departure is desirable to ensure the serenity and cohesiveness within the Team.”

“RADIOSHACK NISSAN TREK wishes to thank Johan Bruyneel for his dedication and devotion since his arrival in the Team.”

A mutual decision... really? :demon: ;D :demon:
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #685 on: 12 October, 2012, 05:42:53 pm »
I wonder if the UCI will drop their legal action against Paul Kimmage ?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #686 on: 12 October, 2012, 05:51:46 pm »
I wonder if the UCI will drop their legal action against Paul Kimmage ?

If they had any sense, they would. However, this is the UCI we're talking about...
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #687 on: 12 October, 2012, 06:03:03 pm »
I wouldn't be surprised if Bruyneel part owns RSNT, and might be disappearing into the shadows so that the team doesn't fold completely.

Never mind boils bursting, it's the rampant hypocrisy I can't bear. Watch out for very guarded words of rebuke for LA from other riders, shitting themselves that their own misdemeanors might be revealed.

Toady

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #688 on: 12 October, 2012, 09:00:50 pm »
The boil has been burst.

It's going to be very messy for some time to come. Pus everywhere. I hope we've all got lids on our popcorn.
Eugh. 

Nice mixed metaphor.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #689 on: 12 October, 2012, 09:30:14 pm »
I wouldn't be surprised if Bruyneel part owns RSNT, and might be disappearing into the shadows so that the team doesn't fold completely.

Never mind boils bursting, it's the rampant hypocrisy I can't bear. Watch out for very guarded words of rebuke for LA from other riders, shitting themselves that their own misdemeanors might be revealed.

Judging by Twitter chat and the latest Inner Ring post, The Hog could well be quite entangled in the RSNT structure, which could be awkward for the team if the renewal of their UCI licence is conditional on his being properly expunged from the organisation. Assuming that neither The Hog nor Armstrong decide that with nothing to lose, they throw the UCI under a bus...

Regarding the latter point, there's a piece on The Inner Ring that looks at how the ordure flying off the fan could spatter over a much wider area than just the former USPS/Discovery team: http://inrng.com/2012/10/usada-case-future/
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Bye Lance
« Reply #690 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:23:26 pm »
Having not actually read any of the official considered decision from usada ...

I find myself wondering why all the sanctions against riders stop in 2006. Is this just the time USPS/Discovery stopped or is it something else like the point a reliable EPO test came in and everybody reigned in their doping.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #691 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:31:56 pm »
The Armstrong case is about Armstrong. The witnesses who have snitched on him are from USPS/Discovery days, and their admitted doping is from when they were riding with him. That set-up folded after his last TdF win in 05. As far as I can see none of them are admitting to doping in their subsequent teams.

They are being sanctioned for what they have admitted to.

On top of this, USADA is casting nasturtiums on his 09/10 comeback, but iirc nobody from the Astana/shack teams are acting as witnesses to anything done during those two years.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #692 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:43:20 pm »
Is this just the time USPS/Discovery stopped or is it something else like the point a reliable EPO test came in and everybody reigned in their doping.

When an EPO test was introduced, the riders switched from subcutaneous injection to intravenous injection of "microdoses" of EPO. They also utilised re-infusion of previously-extracted blood - a doping method that was in use in the 1980s, prior to the advent of EPO.

The doping was certainly not reined in after 2005/6, as Operation Puerto showed.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #693 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:49:06 pm »
Slightly  ironically, after the EPO test was developed and the bio-passport introduced EPO has been used as a masking agent to cover up the imbalances, between old and new blood cells, created by transfusions.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #694 on: 12 October, 2012, 10:56:50 pm »
I see Rob Hayles failed test in 2008 is popping up again.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #695 on: 13 October, 2012, 01:22:18 am »
Years ago I talked to an cyclist who raced in the UK on the amateur scene, mostly to keep fit. He reported that the young lads who were hoping to be spotted, by the big teams, were taking drugs.

I also read somewhere that in a normal pro-cyclist back in the day they got x money and team doctors, flights, new bikes and all the other thins in their pay packet. But a little bit was hold back for a "medical" fund.

Then along with all the cyclist over the years who has been done for doping. I have just become used to and accepted the idea of cycling at top level meant drugs.

So in one way I'm not shocked at all that, just how easy it sounded it was to dope and how lax LA and the agency doing the testing about picking up tests. Not just lying about taking th drugs but the other lies about who he was working with and when, etc etc etc.

Now we need to clean it up and we start with the top, not bottom up as it sounds like will happen.

When the Olympics was on I read an article about doping and one falla said. I paraphrase: Keep the medals and blood for eight years and then test and hand out medal if there is any to pass out. Since the drugs are so far ahead of the test.

Anywhoo, that was my two cent and I agree with everything said here.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #696 on: 13 October, 2012, 11:29:00 am »
Anyone else seen this article on the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19912623

They show the TdF winners back to 1980 and have them either "tainted by doping" or not. It's a bit disingenuous as Laurent Fignon for example admitted to taken speed a few times in his early career but that's it, it wasn't exactly on the scale of EPO or blood transfusions and certainly didn't help him win the TdF.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #697 on: 13 October, 2012, 02:11:03 pm »
Did Fignon fail a test? I can't remember. Pedro Delgado pretty much failed a test, although he managed to wriggle out of that one.

There's an article on the BBC website about Scott Mercier that's worth a read as well. Given doping products by a USPS team doctor, he refused to take them, realised he couldn't keep up with the riders who did and walked away from cycling.

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #698 on: 13 October, 2012, 02:15:31 pm »
I don't think I knew about Rob Hayles failing a test either. Anyone wanna summarise?
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #699 on: 13 October, 2012, 02:17:00 pm »
AIUI Les West returned from "probation" in Belgium in his youth because he wouldn't conform to the drug convention of his contemporaries.