Bye Lance

[Justin(e)]

Another thing that I have been wondering about is the trail of the pharmaceuticals - there must be some sort of auditory trail then leads to many more physicians.

What, 'an ear to the ground' sort of thing?

Listen - I am sorry, mea culpa.  I was sure that was the right word,    I suppose that just plain audit does the same job.

[spesh]

I always did wonder how doping was paid for, I assumed prize money played a big role.

The best thing about the Usada report was that they "followed the money".  IMO, this is always the best way to uncover the truth.

Another thing that I have been wondering about is the trail of the pharmaceuticals - there must be some sort of auditory trail then leads to many more physicians.  Notwithstanding the administrators, I think that the doctors are the most culpable players in all of this.  I would go so far as making it a sanctioning offense for riders, and a criminal one for doctors.  Even the threat of jail for a 'respectable' physician would be enough to scare most of them off and this would dry up the supply.

At the very least, doctors implicated in doping athletes should be struck off, according to Prentice Steffen, who was replaced as USPS team doctor because he refused to facilitate doping:

So where does Steffen propose we go from here?

Firstly he'd like to see doctors stripped of their medical licenses if it's proven they've facilitated doping within sport. It's not a far-fetched proposal. The doping riders are often the focus of stories and the resulting fallouts but the facilitators and team bosses rarely face sanction.

"There are still others that I think should be held accountable. Away from cycling for a second, in the BALCO scandal there was a doctor involved writing prescription and writing TUES and I made a formal complaint to the Californian medical board and he lost his license. We need things like that to happen.

"There's all this talk of amnesty and truth and reconciliation. I think for my colleagues it should be one strike and you're out, a lifetime ban. I don't think there's any room for any doctor. We take an oath, not to the IOC or the UCI but to our patients in general. I think if anyone is involved beyond reasonable doubt they should be out. And they should lose their medical license."

[Exit Stage Left]

Strike off the accountants as well, that's what I say.

[Exit Stage Left]

David Millar for UCI president anyone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19956995

[citoyen]

As for Evans, I take heart from the fact that Ferrari and Armstrong described him in their email exchange as "dumb" - which I presume to mean "too dumb to dope".

d.

Heaven knows why Bruyneel thinks there's an air of pre-judgement in this case.

It's fortunate for Bruyneel that the CAS are somewhat unlikely to select me to conduct arbitration in his case. I think he's worrying unnecessarily, the poor lamb.

d.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't get the relevance of doping either creating or destroying a "level playing field". Sport is never a level playing field. For instance, some people's bodies react better to EPO or HGH or whatever the drug of the year is. The same is true of any training technique. Some people will get a boost from a drug that no one else has, some will get it from the latest wheels or whatever.

Well, if you're looking at it that way, it's pretty damn unfair that I'm genetically ill-equipped to follow my dreams of becoming a prima ballerina.

There's another entertainment business just ripe for a drugs scandal! How else do they stay literally on their toes for hours on end, day after day? 

[Exit Stage Left]

As for Evans, I take heart from the fact that Ferrari and Armstrong described him in their email exchange as "dumb" - which I presume to mean "too dumb to dope".

d.

Heaven knows why Bruyneel thinks there's an air of pre-judgement in this case.

It's fortunate for Bruyneel that the CAS are somewhat unlikely to select me to conduct arbitration in his case. I think he's worrying unnecessarily, the poor lamb.

d.

I'm just pointing out that the story has gone beyond the 'Burn the Witch' phase, and onto a concern about Kangaroo courts even on cycling websites. The CAS is one thing, any possible criminal proceedings are another. I don't know who hasn't heard too much about this case already, possibly there are undiscovered tribes in the Amazon. They'll probably find them wearing USPS shirts.

[citoyen]

Bruyneel is publicly making noises about kangaroo courts purely to influence public opinion (oh the irony). He will get a fair hearing.

d.

[rogerzilla]

It'll be interesting to see if anyone actually sues LA now.  I can see him declaring himself bankrupt in a few years' time (having squirrelled the big money away somewhere).

[Bledlow]

Poli is my cycling hero for ruining the climbers' day on Mt Ventoux.  He only did it because he was annoyed at being caught the previous day when he also went for a lone break.  When Cipo has packed and gone back to the beach, you can do these things as team orders no longer apply.

My favourite Tour stage of all time.

[spesh]

Oakley have put out a statement on Twitter, duly storyfied below. Each line links to the relevant Tweet. Make of it what you will:

As guilty as the evidence shows, which we completely acknowledge, it is our promise & contractual obligation to stand by our athletes

...until proven guilty by the highest governing body of sport, or a court of law. We might be last off…

...but we are not going to jump on the bandwagon as it breaks our promise to all of our athletes.

We will wait for the UCI's conclusion and act at that time.

http://twitter.com/oakley

Either Armstrong's contract lawyer was smarter than Oakley's, or it's Stephanie McIlvain's role in the SCA hearing (and alleged threats to Betsy Andreu) that's got what passes for their corporate leadership in a bind.

[Exit Stage Left]

Don't Cannondale have a hybrid called the Bad Boy, isn't this the chemical generation?
I'm the kind of tedious old reactionary who's put off by tattoos and piercings, but I know I shouldn't display my feelings.
What my real views about doping might be are equally suppressed. I've no idea what Oakleys's customers think about Lance, I assume someone in marketing has done some research, I ceased to expect the world to conform to my moral templates a long time ago.

[Cudzoziemiec]

"This generation"? Which generation are you talking about? LA is 41 (which I'd guess is about average for YACFers) so his generation is hardly the latest.

[Exit Stage Left]

I'd chart the rise of the Chemical Generation as beginning with the rise of ecstasy in the late 80s , although the literary movement began in the early 90s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_generation

I started doing long distance bike rides in the mid 90s, and you'd get the occasional comment in 24 hour garages about what you must be on. Lance would have been 17 or 18 when this came out.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FEdiOBz4zeM&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/FEdiOBz4zeM&rel=1</a>

[Regulator]

The problem is, the sheer scale of Armstrong's doping and the associated lies means that it is hard to come to any properly quantifiable conclusion  about what his real performance level should have been. The worst part is that a clean rider today can't say that he's improved through losing weight or training harder/better without many people going "yeah, right... Armstrong said that, and he's a confirmed doper, so why should we believe you?"

I think this is the 'study' that has been cited in the past
http://www.utexas.edu/features/2006/athletes/index.html

That's not a study - it's a hagiography... 

[citoyen]

I ceased to expect the world to conform to my moral templates a long time ago.

Although we may disagree on some superficial aspects of the story, I suspect that fundamentally we have a lot in common. Like this, for example.

d.

[Nuncio]

There has been a bank withdrawal.  

( ETA - discussed here http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=64462.0)

[citoyen]

Weasels. 

[fuzzy]

Annoying that they have pulled out as a result of this fiasco but, they have been in the sport for a long time as sponsors go so perhaps weasels is a bit strong.

I think I will aim a well intentioned FUCKERS! at the folk that have instigated this episode and brought Rabobanks decision about however.

[citoyen]

Nope, they're definitely weasels.

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=64462.msg1338571#msg1338571

[Exit Stage Left]

Sparks had it spot on in August with the conclusion of his judgement on pages 28 to 30  of this judgement.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Fpublic%2Fresources%2Fdocuments%2Farmstrong.pdf&ei=JB2BUNDzL6et0QWm-4GoBA&usg=AFQjCNE8uW60wjtYkDXrn1fYf2HgjMZ2uQ

Rabobank's leaving doesn't mean the team will disappear, Cavendish had his best years after Deutsche Telecom had withdrawn in similar circumstances. Red Bull aren't in road cycling, now there's an air of edgy transgression surrounding it, they might be tempted.

[simonp]

I was most annoyed in 2007 to discover I couldn't use Red Bull on PBP, as it was illegal (not just on PBP, but generally).

Fortunately the French were told where to go by the EU, and you can now get Red Bull in France.

[Exit Stage Left]

When we were leaving for the LEL meeting at York last Saturday at about 8am, we spotted our near neighbour out for a ride in the 1 degree C morning air. He won the Milk Race in 1976, and he rode the Tour in 1977 in support of Dietrich Thurau on the Ti Raleigh team. He was the same height as 'Didi' and could give him his bike as needed.
He didn't finish the Tour, falling victim to a mass disqualification on Alpe d'Huez. Thurau did finish as the best young rider, having been in Yellow for 14 days. In 2007 Dietrich wrote in Die Welt about doping in that period, as 2007 was when Telekom pulled out following Ulrich's disgrace. It's handy vocab practice for discussing this sort of thing with German cycling mates.
http://www.welt.de/sport/article890306/Wir-haben-doch-frueher-alle-gedopt.html
I wondered what my neighbour was thinking following this summer, he'd ridden in the 1976 Olympics. I think it's time we stopped Lance casting a shadow over Bradley just because we share a common language with the US and the story writes itself.

[clarion]

Bill Nickson?

[Exit Stage Left]

Bill Nickson?

Yes. I've never talked to him about the doping culture, it's not what you do. Whether he'd talk about it now I don't know. He only had a couple of years on the continent, and then raced in the UK and Australia. He has mentioned that he didn't like Belgium.
He has helped me out with some of the more interesting jobs I do, he's a useful contact as he knows young racers who might want the odd day's work, which can be handy.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lXgT7I2pv_4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/lXgT7I2pv_4&rel=1</a>