Bye Lance

[spesh]

There's a good piece by Neil Browne over at Roadcycling.com about the triggers for the fall of Armstrong - one being Kayle LeoGrande's sloppy housekeeping, and the other being Landis getting flicked by Wonderboy when he was looking for a ride after serving his ban.

http://roadcycling.com/news-results/armstrong-set-own-fate-turning-against-floyd#.UIbLcm_A_eJ

Robert Millar doesn't say much these days, but when he submits a blog post to CN, it's usually worth reading:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/the-bare-minimum

[spesh]

Indurain also thinks LA is innocent, what a surprise.

Samuel Sanchez has also opened his mouth for a spot of pedal extremity fellatio as well. 

[Exit Stage Left]

Indurain also thinks LA is innocent, what a surprise.

Samuel Sanchez has also opened his mouth for a spot of pedal extremity fellatio as well. 

By Spanish standards he is as pure as the driven snow. At some point we have to realise that the premium placed on 'fairness' in the UK is not universal.

[Tewdric]

Robert Millar doesn't say much these days, but when he submits a blog post to CN, it's usually worth reading:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/the-bare-minimum

That's an excellent piece!

[Seineseeker]

A gem from the roadcycling piece:

"Another factor that helped bring Armstrong down was the simple fact he is a jerk. "

What gets me is all these cyclists and others who want to defend Armstrong on the grounds that he doped as did everyone else. Well true, almost everyone did, but Armstrong was the catalyst for the doping culture. We know about Zabriskie and that's just an example of the damage he caused way beyond his personal agenda.

[RJ]

There's a good piece by Neil Browne over at Roadcycling.com about the triggers for the fall of Armstrong - one being Kayle LeoGrande's sloppy housekeeping, and the other being Landis getting flicked by Wonderboy when he was looking for a ride after serving his ban.

http://roadcycling.com/news-results/armstrong-set-own-fate-turning-against-floyd#.UIbLcm_A_eJ

Landis is Banquo AICMFP 

[Ian H]

Robert Millar doesn't say much these days, but when he submits a blog post to CN, it's usually worth reading:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/the-bare-minimum

That's an excellent piece!

Yes, it cuts through the general crap and hysteria.

[Exit Stage Left]

Robert Millar doesn't say much these days, but when he submits a blog post to CN, it's usually worth reading:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/the-bare-minimum

That's an excellent piece!

Yes, it cuts through the general crap and hysteria.

Didn't Millar stay at Le Groupement after Obree left when he was asked to contribute to the 'Medical Fund'. I can remember Millar mocking Obree's 'unprofessional' attitude at the time.

[RJ]

Robert Millar doesn't say much these days, but when he submits a blog post to CN, it's usually worth reading:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/the-bare-minimum

That's an excellent piece!

Absolutely.  Smart analysis from someone who knows what they're talking about, with no punches pulled. On the moral button.

[mr magnolia]

on a slightly tangential note, can someone point me at the blog link that was put up some time back that takes you to an Austin-based para legal(?) cycling girl who seemed to be having a bit of a spat with Mr L? May not have been on this thread, but an allied one.

I wanna know how things feel in Austin, dude.

http://www.150wattsofawesome.blogspot.co.uk/

In one of her blogs she makes a point that I have often thought - if LA had retired and stayed out of the limelight after the 7th TdF win (or even after the 6th), he would probably have been forgotten about (or at least the question marks over his career would have been).

Absolutely. I remember raising my eyebrows highly when he won number six, and deciding he was just taking the piss when he did no. 7. He certainly shouldn't have come out of retirement, as that just revved it all back up again.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Indurain also thinks LA is innocent, what a surprise.

Samuel Sanchez has also opened his mouth for a spot of pedal extremity fellatio as well. 

By Spanish standards he is as pure as the driven snow. At some point we have to realise that the premium placed on 'fairness' in the UK is not universal.

Fair like David Millar? Oh but of course, he's not from the UK, he's Scottish. 

[padbeat]

Hummm.

Another convicted drug cheat stands up for Lance Armstrong. With friends like these ...

[Peter]

"Regarding Armstrong's doping ban, Valverde echoed the sentiment of compatriot Samuel Sanchez in what he perceived as a surfeit of direct evidence of Armstrong doping"

It may have suffered in translation but a surfeit is exactly what there seems to be Alejandro.

[Exit Stage Left]

Indurain also thinks LA is innocent, what a surprise.

Samuel Sanchez has also opened his mouth for a spot of pedal extremity fellatio as well. 

By Spanish standards he is as pure as the driven snow. At some point we have to realise that the premium placed on 'fairness' in the UK is not universal.

Fair like David Millar? Oh but of course, he's not from the UK, he's Scottish. 

I was looking at some research into fairness. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/03/evolution-of-fairness/
Essentially the larger the range of interactions where you have to trust others, the greater the sense of fairness. That might have implications for riders from poorer rural backgrounds, where clannishness and canniness are seen as virtues. The kind of places where the idea of omerta originates, places like Spain and Southern Italy. Ideas of fairness are culturally constructed, and it's a feature of British life that's often commented on.

At 35 the UK has a low score on uncertainty avoidance which means that as a nation they are quite happy to wake up not knowing what the day brings and they are happy to ‘make it up as they go along’ changing plans as new information comes to light. 
As a low UAI country the British are comfortable in ambiguous situations - the term ‘muddling through’ is a very British way of expressing this. There are generally not too many rules in British society, but those that are there are adhered to (the most famous of which of of course the British love of queuing which has also to do with the values of fair play).

http://geert-hofstede.com/united-kingdom.html

I'm not suggesting that the UK is especially virtuous thanks to its sense of fair play, just that other countries have it as a lower priority than in-group loyalty. This may be reflected in how Lance is judged.

[citoyen]

I suspect it's more a class thing than a nationality thing. Pro cycling is traditionally a poorly paid, working-class sport (like football used to be). Fairness is perhaps less important a consideration to many pro cyclists of the past, and even the present in some countries, than being able to support your family. It's relatively easy for an outsider like David Millar (middle-class Brit) to take a different position.

According to the recent biography of Reg Harris (very much a working-class hero), he was entirely "continental" in his attitudes towards fairness in cycling.

Love that Robert Millar piece. Maybe all pro cycling needs to cure its ills is more Scottish riders named Millar.

d.

[Exit Stage Left]

A lot of the more sensible stuff has fed off the Australian report I referred to way upthread, it's possible to chart the way the phrases have entered the informed debate.. It's worth skim-reading at the very least. pdf, which is why you don't often see it quoted, as everyone is a lazy cut n' paste merchant these days.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newcyclingpathway.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2F21-NOW-FINAL-.pdf&ei=3saHUOLYL8LH0QWpvYGABA&usg=AFQjCNG7FS0-X_cX8kyy_n6CBxLPmc6H-w

[Exit Stage Left]

A lot of the more sensible stuff has fed off the Australian report I referred to way upthread, it's possible to chart the way the phrases have entered the informed debate.. It's worth skim-reading at the very least. pdf, which is why you don't often see it quoted, as everyone is a lazy cut n' paste merchant these days.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newcyclingpathway.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2F21-NOW-FINAL-.pdf&ei=3saHUOLYL8LH0QWpvYGABA&usg=AFQjCNG7FS0-X_cX8kyy_n6CBxLPmc6H-w

Page 143 of that report is about the stage the debate has reached. 'Sport as Spectacle and Sport as work'.

Everyone wants cycling to move on, but some view Lance as a sacrificial lamb on the altar of that transformation. At some point someone will refer to 'The crucifixion considered as an uphill bicycle race.'

http://zoom-gordo.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/crucifixion-considered-as-uphill.html#!/2010/04/crucifixion-considered-as-uphill.html

[her_welshness]

From Twitter land:

At the launch of next year’s Tour de France route in Paris today reigning champion Wiggins hit out at the 41-year-old Texan over the scandal that has rocked the sport.

“I think there is a lot of anger from most people within the sport, it is a sport I love and have always loved,” he said.

“It is a shame that cycling is being dragged through this again really, not a shame that he has been caught – when you get older you start to realise Father Christmas doesn’t exist and it is the same with Lance.

On a side note, Bradley Wiggins has left Twitter, reasons are uknown except there are words like 'Jimmy Carr' being associated with him.

[Tewdric]

It shouldn't be too taxing for him.

[Bledlow]

LA will be declaring himself bankrupt in due course.  If he's smart, the money will have been squirrelled away in trusts or into assets controlled by other people a long time ago.

On the bright side, maybe he can get a tax refund.

IIRC there's provision in US bankruptcy law for recovering assets deemed to have been transferred to keep them out of the hands of creditors. And in any case, he has a lot more money than he'd have to pay back. Bankruptcy has its own costs, & if he has to fight in court to protect assets he's tried to fight, he could easily rack up more costs than he'd save.

Better just to pay the refunds where the contracts demand it, & give the finger where they don't.

[spesh]

Everyone wants cycling to move on, but some view Lance as a sacrificial lamb on the altar of that transformation. At some point someone will refer to 'The crucifixion considered as an uphill bicycle race.'

http://zoom-gordo.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/crucifixion-considered-as-uphill.html#!/2010/04/crucifixion-considered-as-uphill.html

The infamous Albert Londres interview with two of the Pélissier brothers after they had quite the 1924 TdF, published in Les Petit Parisein under the headline “Forçats de la Route” ("Convicts of the Road"), springs to mind.

“The Tour de France is a Calvary. The road to Golgotha had only fourteen stations, while ours has fifteen… ”

[simonp]

On a side note, Bradley Wiggins has left Twitter, reasons are uknown except there are words like 'Jimmy Carr' being associated with him.

Tax evasion?? You've lost me there

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220787/Bradley-Wiggins-accused-signing-abusive-Cayman-Islands-tax-avoidance-scheme-Bill-Roache.html

[Karla]

Maybe he's Belgian for UK tax purposes 

[onb]

Apparently Waterstones  are now stacking its Not About the Bike  under fiction.

[Exit Stage Left]

I got a marketing e mail from Planet X asking if I remembered when Armstrong was a spaceman.