Author Topic: Bye Lance  (Read 283884 times)

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #125 on: 24 May, 2011, 12:18:03 pm »
It was a bit more personal than that.  Simeoni had lodged a charge of defamation against Armstrong.  LA had called him a 'liar' when Simeoni's defence against a doping charge included testimony against Dr Ferrari.

The Patron always has to dilute some of his personal interest with a nod to the interests of the Peloton, that Fortune article is a good primer on some of the dynamics. I'd be most interested in knowing what Jens Voigt really thinks about the Armstrong era.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #126 on: 24 May, 2011, 12:26:58 pm »
He probably thinks lots of things, one of which might be gratitude that riders salaries are higher than they were.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #127 on: 24 May, 2011, 12:36:13 pm »
Jens is of course the last surviving rider in the peloton from the East German athletics programme, so his perspective would be a very interesting one.

Rhys W

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #128 on: 24 May, 2011, 01:40:31 pm »
Here's my take on it:
<snipped for brevity>

I think you speak a lot of sense there, Ram.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #129 on: 24 May, 2011, 06:07:20 pm »
Here's my take on it:
<snipped for brevity>

I think you speak a lot of sense there, Ram.

+1

But add to that the deal with an insurance company in America - basically a bet I believe that Armstrong would not win the successive tours that he did.  It was an incremental debt that ballooned to millions.  I believe the company behind it even went bust as a result of paying him / his company out.  So there is a very good motive behind proving he was doping and therefore cheated to gain the millions in this way.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #130 on: 25 May, 2011, 10:39:29 am »
Wonder what is next?

I'm not sure what to make of Hamilton's motives. It is purely related to the interest in USPS as he doesn't go into any detail about his positives, which were of course, with different teams. He's not going for a total clean slate is he? He's not naming names that aren't already named. He's not talking about anything other than USPS.

Could this be a pre-emptive admission in the knowledge that the truth will out anyway, or is there something else?

Armstrongs PR are saying he has got a book coming, but their attempts to smear just make them look more suspicious

JT

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #131 on: 25 May, 2011, 10:53:30 am »
Wonder what is next?

I'm not sure what to make of Hamilton's motives. It is purely related to the interest in USPS as he doesn't go into any detail about his positives, which were of course, with different teams. He's not going for a total clean slate is he? He's not naming names that aren't already named. He's not talking about anything other than USPS.

Could this be a pre-emptive admission in the knowledge that the truth will out anyway, or is there something else?

Armstrongs PR are saying he has got a book coming, but their attempts to smear just make them look more suspicious

I think the key difference in this situation to past confessions is the threat of incarceration if they lie.

I read somewhere at the weekend (sorry can't remember where - might have been David Walsh's piece in the Sunday Times) that the investigation team are very overt with their badges and guns when interviewing. Hamilton (and allegedly) Hincapie have testified in front of a Grand Jury not just a bunch of blazers from the UCI.

And all we have to go on at the moment is what 60 minutes have reported, not the actual evidence gathered by the investigation.
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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #132 on: 25 May, 2011, 11:14:03 am »
Pre-emptive admission?  I think so.

Given that he's presumably spilt the USPS beans to Novitzski (who's not interested in anything else, is he?) and is never going to ride professionally again, why not try and scrape back some credibility/reputation with a mea culpa, even if it's 7 years too late and follows another 8 year ban.  He has nothing to lose. I haven't seen the 60 Minutues programme, but I guess the confession also gives him a chance to publicize his new job as a cycling trainer (which may also lead to a book).

In my younger and more naive days, the positives which I was most surprised about were Millar's (he's British!) and Hamilton's - personable, clean-cut American, with pretty dog and wife (or the other way round, can't remember), and heroic stage win with broken clavicle.  Their behaviours following their respective bannings were very different.  Remember the chimera claim? I know which of the two gained my grudging respect and which did not.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #133 on: 25 May, 2011, 11:24:53 am »
Ah, but the circumstances were different. Millar didn't test positive, the police found EPO in his bathroom.... he had very little choice but admit. Hamilton tested positive, and had a stab at claiming the result was invalid.


Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #134 on: 25 May, 2011, 11:40:48 am »

gonzo

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #135 on: 25 May, 2011, 06:44:47 pm »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #136 on: 25 May, 2011, 07:00:22 pm »
You are missing the point... he was inconsequential, compared to Armstrong

Rhys W

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #137 on: 25 May, 2011, 08:08:36 pm »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

And failed a dope test on that very day!  ::-)

andygates

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #138 on: 25 May, 2011, 08:21:26 pm »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

And failed a dope test on that very day!  ::-)
If every day was that awesome, I'd be staunchly pro-drugs in sport!   :demon:
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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #139 on: 25 May, 2011, 08:34:24 pm »
It felt hollow almost as soon as it started, tbh.  There really wasn't any awesome in it.
Getting there...

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #140 on: 26 May, 2011, 09:11:02 am »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

Whither Claudio Chiapucci?

Has anyone come up with an explanation of why Johann Bruyneel did a runner from the Giro so rapid the he apparently didn't even bother to take his luggage with him?
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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #141 on: 26 May, 2011, 09:30:37 am »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

Nah, that was Hushovd

Rhys W

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #142 on: 26 May, 2011, 09:39:40 am »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

Whither Claudio Chiapucci?

Yes, more impressive imho. Apparently his father was a PoW with Coppi, and he said he'd win at Sestriere as a dedication to both. I haven't checked my facts here, but it's a good bit of cycling lore!

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #143 on: 26 May, 2011, 10:03:20 am »
In 2006 Landis got busted. Who was Landis anyway?

The chap who made the greatest one day break in Le tour of any rider in modern times.

Whither Claudio Chiapucci?

An early example of how much difference EPO could make.
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clarion

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #144 on: 26 May, 2011, 10:30:19 am »
Undoubtedly, to my mind.

However, I see from reading Wikipedia, that his confession (later retracted) was of doping from 1993 onwards, which wouldn't have covered that stage.  I think that's almost certainly a lie anyway.
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Seineseeker

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Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #145 on: 26 May, 2011, 01:41:10 pm »
Let's not forget how much power Lance has, he has every legal avenue at his disposal because of his wealth, not to mention his influence. And the fact that he is a national hero in the states. This whole thing has a long long way to run.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #146 on: 26 May, 2011, 01:47:04 pm »
All this is nearly as fascinating as the racing.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #147 on: 26 May, 2011, 01:53:20 pm »
[metaphor overload]

I'm not so sure that it will be too much longer.

I think the tide will turn against him very quickly, if it hasnt already, and of course the moment a crack appears in the dam of public sympathy there will be a deluge of recrimination. 'We were duped' will be the headline. I don't know if he has been questioned before the jury yet, but will he risk continuing to deny with the possibility that Hincapie has grassed? Of course there have been other court cases before, such as the SCA trial, so the stakes could be pretty high.

This isn't just going to blow over, and he stands a good chance of being hung out to dry, regardless of whether he ends up as a defendant, or merely a witness.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #148 on: 26 May, 2011, 01:59:53 pm »
All this is nearly as fascinating as the racing.

With all the accusations about UCI accepting money to conceal failed tests into the bargain, I'd say it's seismic for the sport.

Will we see a breakaway movement?

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #149 on: 26 May, 2011, 02:18:20 pm »
Continental racing exists for the British as a sort of moral example. If a young lad is keen to follow a career in cycling he is told that he can never make it to the absolute top unless he cheats. Tour riders are available as inspirational figures.  But they must ultimately be flawed, as the sensible advice to a young aspirant is for them to enjoy their cycling, but to concentrate on the day job. The real cycling scene is reflected in the pages of the Daily Telegraph. National cycling results and details - Telegraph
I see that Wiggins thrashed Hutchinson in the National 10 on Saturday. A good omen for the Tour Prologue.

An interesting point is that British girls are world class, that's probably because there's less money about.