Wearing black cycling gear in winter - plain daft or what ?

[Hot Flatus]

a car slowed down as it was overtaking me & the driver shouted 'you're bloody invisible in that clothing'.

Sounds to me like it could've been Pumpe.   

He was probably still on the naughty step though.

La la la la la

[Jacomus]

I tend to wear dark cycling gear but always have a bright flashing LED rear light & reflective sam brown belt in the dark. I've generally tended to think this is sufficient as cars normally give me a wide bearth when passing from behind but a couple of weeks ago a car slowed down as it was overtaking me & the driver shouted 'you're bloody invisible in that clothing'.

This unnerved me quite a bit. Although all the evidence is that most car drivers have no problem seeing me it only needs one who doesn't ... And it's not much consolation knowing it was the driver's fault when you're in A&E (or worse). So I must say it's made me wonder whether I shouldn't go for more hi-viz stuff.

Then how did he see you in time to slow down, wind his window down, come alongside and shout at you.

He was a muppet.

[Jurek]

Superb Pumpe!
 
ROTFLMAO!

[marcus]

He was a muppet.

Agreed! But still a bit unnerving.

[Tiger]

Just back this PM from a few circuits of Richmond Park. Purely coincidence given the subject of this thread but i was noticing how much more 'visible' in the poor light the yellow blobber riders were, compared with the indistinct smudges of the various reds and blues and even greys of the others.  Lights even better.
Likewise on Audaxes I am always very impressed by the visibility impact of reflective stuff or multiple lights  - makes a cyclist look much bigger overall.
With flouro being so prevalent now - to not wear it is almost to declare a desire to be less visible - dead cool round Soho as an urban guerilla but dead dim on the open road in my view.  
I suspect that the less bright riders are working on the basis that their innate brilliance is obvious and shines out to others.  
As has been said tho - if someone is going to fast around a blind corner or pulls out without actually seeing - the game is up anyway. As poor Jason Macintyre found out. The driver got a £500 fine and the defence case for blamelessness was bolstered by his lack of hiviz.  

[gordon taylor]

I cannot believe intelligent people think riding in black in the winter gloom is fine,

Hmm. There's a bit of UK culture in this thread. In those countries where cycling is an everyday activity (i.e. Holland, Vietnam) the wearing of hi-viz and helmets is virtually zero.

We're paranoid and succumb to the "cycling is dangerous" mantra too easily. We should all be cycling in everyday clothes, not safety gear.

[ed_o_brain]

I used to wear hi-viz all the time.

Now my jacket is black, my longs are black and my hi-viz waistcoat stays tucked away, ready for occasions when I think it will make a difference (low sun & long shadows). I put the smart lights on in any other conditions. I know that lil half watt LED, usually two of them on fresh batteries, makes more difference then all the hi-viz I could possibly adorn myself or my machine with.

It makes no noticable difference.

Most the danger seems to come from drivers who have seen me but still make stupid judgement calls. The ones that that think they stil have time to pull out before you yet get there/finish overtaking before the oncoming bus reaches us/just squeeze through that gap.

The last time we had this argument (probably at the other place), didn't someone post something about the BT Vans when they switched the colour from Yellow to grey?

[LEE]

I wear any colour during the day, whatever comes to hand first.

Around sunset I put my lights on and my Hi-Viz on.  I can't wear too much Scotchlite.

Personally I think that Hi-Viz yellow stands out at any time of day on the country lanes around here but we have to understand that not everyone sees Hi-Viz so brightly (some people aren't as sensitive to it). I find it incredibly eye-catching.

I've said it many times, Scotchlite, in the beam of a car headlight, is brighter and more noticable (IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE as a driver) than the most powerful rear bicycle light.

I just do what makes me feel safer, and feck to everyone else's opinion quite frankly. 

You won't receive any conclusive guidance on this forum, opinion is totally divided.

Look after yourselves as you see fit.  Use your own experience and judgement because it's your life.

[toontra]

My winter/night gear is predominantly black, but the jacket and tights have a narrow reflective trim which, although barely visible in daylight, stands out very well when lit.

In daylight black is as good as anything else IMO.  Dusk is the dodgy time so I always switch my lights on early.

Some motorists complain about anything - they hate cyclists.  I've had car drivers swearing at me for not wearing a helmet.  I point out that it's none of their f***ing business.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

The situation a drivers brain faces is thus: There is too much information being recieved, and changing too rapidly to analyse 100% of it.

Very well said.
I remember reading a book about fighter pilots. The way to mount a successful attack mission is not to meet the defending fighters in head-on combat, it is to overwhelm their mental processing, their 'picture' of the battle space. When the opposition pilot loses this, some of the attackers can slip in unseen, and loose off a missile or continue on with the mission.

[inc]

The situation a drivers brain faces is thus: There is too much information being recieved, and changing too rapidly to analyse 100% of it.

Bloody hell, it reads like some sort of dissertation, The thread is "Wearing black cycling gear in winter - plain daft or what ?" seems simple enough to me.

What most people are doing is a mental risk assessment, which is essentially probability and outcome. Most riders would consider being hit by a car serious but it seems  a lot think wearing black in winter in low light conditions, doesn't make this any less likely, common sense  would say otherwise despite all the fancy pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo.

[woollypigs]

I cannot believe intelligent people think riding in black in the winter gloom is fine,

Hmm. There's a bit of UK culture in this thread. In those countries where cycling is an everyday activity (i.e. Holland, Vietnam) the wearing of hi-viz and helmets is virtually zero.

We're paranoid and succumb to the "cycling is dangerous" mantra too easily. We should all be cycling in everyday clothes, not safety gear.

So true and you can easy add Denmark, Sweden and Norway to that list. You got it bang on there Gordy.

Good road positioning is definitely the best visibility aid, in my experience.

Yup the 3 C's, remember them boys and girls ... 'to see;, 'to be seen' and communicate. If you are in a position where you can see and can be seen and above all tell other road users where you are going, is probably the best road safety advice I can give to any cyclist.

[toontra]

The situation a drivers brain faces is thus: There is too much information being recieved, and changing too rapidly to analyse 100% of it.

Bloody hell, it reads like some sort of dissertation, The thread is "Wearing black cycling gear in winter - plain daft or what ?" seems simple enough to me.

What most people are doing is a mental risk assessment, which is essentially probability and outcome. Most riders would consider being hit by a car serious but it seems  a lot think wearing black in winter in low light conditions, doesn't make this any less likely, common sense  would say otherwise despite all the fancy pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo.

Some things are counter-intuitive, like removing street furniture and road markings making some roads safer.  How much evidence is needed before "mumbo-jumbo" becomes fact?

[inc]

Some things are counter-intuitive, like removing street furniture and road markings making some roads safer.  How much evidence is needed before "mumbo-jumbo" becomes fact?

Removing street furniture is not counter intuitive, there is a logic to it. Cycling in black on a gloomy winters day doesn't.

[Cunobelin]

I was on my motorbike and am pretty keyed to my surroundings and whats going on ahead, imagine the driver of a car with misted up windows etc. These cyclists were not visible enough IMO!

Who shouldn't be driving  a car in this condition!

What amuses me is how we allow black cars, and find no problem woththis - shouldn't all cars be painted in bright colours?

[toontra]

Some things are counter-intuitive, like removing street furniture and road markings making some roads safer.  How much evidence is needed before "mumbo-jumbo" becomes fact?

Removing street furniture is not counter intuitive, there is a logic to it. Cycling in black on a gloomy winters day doesn't.

In your opinion.

[Jacomus]

Some things are counter-intuitive, like removing street furniture and road markings making some roads safer.  How much evidence is needed before "mumbo-jumbo" becomes fact?

Removing street furniture is not counter intuitive, there is a logic to it. Cycling in black on a gloomy winters day doesn't.

Haha! Ok, so removing street furnature has logic. Therefore my post that you dismissed as 'pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo' is also rooted in logic.

[nicknack]

We've been here before (how many times?).

I think I suggested this before as stuff to be seen in, so I'll suggest it again.

[Biggsy]

My suspicion is is that flourescent yellow is more visible more often than some people want to admit to themselves - because they (rightly) feel that they should not have to wear it.

To my eyes, it stands out well more often than not in urban and country situations.

[gonzo]

Unless I'm mistaken, the thread is about wearing black, not high vis.

[Julian]

I don't know whether hi-viz makes me more visible or not.

I would however be very interested to compare the number of motorists who profess themselves unable to see cyclists in dark clothing with the number of motorists who are able to see fluffy bunny rabbits (and the silly furry buggers never do wear hi-viz or get themselves decent lights) and therefore stamp on the brakes on dark little country roads in order to avoid killing said fluffy bunny rabbit.  

[clarion]

That is a very good point.

*searches for bunny-girl outfit*

That should get me noticed!

[Charlotte]

We've been here before (how many times?).

Quite.

I think I suggested this before as stuff to be seen in, so I'll suggest it again.

Only with more style:



When I'm riding my bike, I'll wear whatever the hell is the most practical, comfortable and stylish at the time.  If it's dark, I'll run kickarse lights.  Hi Viz and stupidly bright colours make you look like a prat.  I don't want to look like a prat.

I'll ride confidently and legally - as Woolly said, you want to make sure you're in the right place in the road and you're letting people know where you're going next.

Regardless of what I'm wearing, If a car hits me, they'd better make a good job of it because if I can still get up off the ground, I'm going to be very angry...

[inc]

Removing street furniture is not counter intuitive, there is a logic to it. Cycling in black on a gloomy winters day doesn't

In your opinion.

No, it is logical that wearing black on a dull winters day will make you less visible.

[Phil]

Well, I spent the morning riding a black bike, wearing black longs, a black jersey, and a black woolly hat, and I don't think that's plain daft.  I was visible, just as the many pedestrians I passed wearing black clothing were visible, and the black cars which I saw on my ride were visible.  

I do believe that hi-viz makes you more visible.  I don't believe that it's necessary to be any more visible.  When it gets dark I stick two whacking great lights on.  If a driver doesn't see those, they're paying no attention, and won't notice hi-viz either.  

I used to wear a lot of hi-viz clothing (I still have some truly cringeworthy flashing hi-viz armbands ).  I don't wear hi-viz now because when I did, I got so much casual abuse off car drivers that I was seriously considering stopping cycling.  When I ditched the hi-viz and helmet, it suddenly stopped, and cars gave me noticeably more room.