Letters of Complaint

[Julian]

This thread reminds me, I've not had a response to my complaint to Ontime yet.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

I realise that driving the methadone express is probably the worst bus job in the city

Comedy gold, Kirst.

If you ever come to Edinburgh I will take you for a couple of trips on the no14 and you will see why the bus drivers call it that. I don't think I've ever had an uneventful journey on the 14.

[Wowbagger]

Dear Mr. Swain,

It was my misfortune to encounter one of your drivers this afternoon, twice, at around 1.30 p.m. in Southend-on-Sea.

In the first instance, I was cycling along Priory Crescent at the point marked by the arrow http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=587816&Y=187529&A=Y&Z=120 when one of your lorry fleet overtook me far too close and far too fast, in such a manner that the driver had to swerve in violently to avoid a bollard in the centre of the road, forcing me to brake to avoid being crushed. Immediately afterwards, he had to stop at a set of lights, at which I caught up with, and overtook him before crossing and continuing my journey north along Manners Way.

I next encountered your driver, about 5 minutes later, just here: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=587573&Y=188814&A=Y&Z=120. He overtook me on a hump-backed bridge where the visibility was poor and the road narrow. Again, he was driving far too fast and close and I had to swerve to avoid his rear wheels.

I wonder what training your drivers are given for built-up areas and 30 mph speed limits. Bearing in mind that 30mph is a limit, and not a target speed, and that the vehicle he was driving was about as big a lorry as you ever see on British roads, the standard of driving displayed was well below what is necessary to ensure the safety of other road users. Furthermore, if your driver is in such a hurry to reach his destination it begs the question of why it was he used a longer route than necessary for his journey. He had clearly carried on along the A127 to the next set of lights and executed his right turn there, adding at least half a mile, and an extra set of traffic lights, which was why I was able to stay ahead of him. Had he turned right along Manners Way, he would have been crossing that bridge about two minutes before I got there and would not have had to rush so much.

I would remind your company of its duty of care to other road users, and the fact that HGVs in built-up areas are responsible for more deaths of cyclists than any other group. Will you please speak to the driver concerned and remind him of his responsibility to other road users:  I'm sure his standard of driving must have fallen well below the norm for your company.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

Thank you very much for your very precise e-mail giving us nearly all
the facts necessary to carry out a thorough investigation as we would
when receiving such a complaint

Unfortunately you forgot to send the registration number so it will be
very hard to carry out such an investigation as we run 200 vehicles

Could you please send me the registration number so we may investigate
if not it will be a long job going through the records of every vehicle
to see who it may have been

I am assuming the incident happened today on 28-11-11 so perhaps you
could confirm that too

I look forward to receiving the information so we may carry out an
investigation and reply to you

In the mean time we are sorry that you have had to contact us because
our drivers try very hard to be careful and considerate

Regards

Bob Swain
R. Swain & Sons Ltd
Medway Freight Centre
Priory Road,
Strood,
Rochester,
Kent,
ME2 2BD

Dear Mr Swain,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Sadly I cannot remember the entire registration number, although I do recall that the numerics were 05. The last three letters may have been RGT or RGJ, but I'm far from certain of that.

The vehicle was not carrying a load at the time. My guess, from the vehicle's direction of travel, that it was heading for the Baltic Wharf on Wallasey Island. There's very little in the way of industry in that direction, and since that part o the Essex coast is divided by tidal estuaries, there can't be that many destinations which would have required such a large vehicle to use such small roads.

Hopefully your company's journey records for 28/11/2011 will identify the vehicle and driver, given that there must have been a limited number of your fleet operating in Southend at the time.

Yours sincerely,

[Wowbagger]

Further to the above, I sent the following email on 3rd December.

Dear Mr. Swain,

Further to my second email, giving you slightly better details of the vehicle in question, I'm wondering how your efforts are going into tracking down the offending vehicle.

It has occurred to me that the lorry in question may well have been heading towards the Baltic Wharf, on Wallasey Island, which is an import depot for steel and timber. I would imagine that the vast majority of large vehicles that use that road do so to access the Baltic Wharf as there is little else in the way of heavy industry in that direction. The lorry was of a type which could well have carried such loads: the trailer, although empty, had yellow posts along each side.

I am prompted to contact you again by more bad news: I learned from friends that there have now been 16 cyclists killed in London this year, and I understand that all of them have been killed by HGVs. Your driver, last Monday, paid little or no regard to my safety, in both cases overtaking dangerously, and in the first case when there was a set of traffic lights within view, at which I overtook him. It was therefore a totally futile manoeuvre on his part.

I trust that this exchange is leading to an investigation and that I am not wasting my time.

Yours sincerely,

I have had no reply.

I find it incredible that a haulage company's records cannot easily be searched to find out which vehicle is in a specific location on a particular day and therefore conclude that Mr. Swain condones the sort of dangerous driving I witnessed, and which forced me to take evasive action last week.

My last email:

Dear Mr. Swain,

Further to our recent correspondence, I have placed the following post on a cycle forum of which I am a member:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16168.msg1103898#msg1103898 refers.

Of course, I will be quite happy to remove that post in the event that I feel that a proper investigation is carried out by your company, and a satisfactory conclusion reached.

Yours sincerely,

[tiermat]

When I sent a complaint about Farmway's vehicles they told me they had GPS tracking of all their trucks, so could tell what the vehicle was and the time it passed me.

[Wowbagger]

I would imagine it would take their fleet manager about 5 minutes to identify the vehicle concerned. To me the giveaway is

In the mean time we are sorry that you have had to contact us because our drivers try very hard to be careful and considerate

which is full of ICBA.

[tiermat]

Smells like a pro-forma letter.

Seen similar wording myself.

From a fleet mananger who would not believe that I saw one of his drivers speeding down a country lane, in a 7.5 tonne truck, whilst on the phone and forcing an oncoming car into a ditch.

[Regulator]

It's worth copying in the local Traffic Commissioner.  They do actually take notice of dangerous driving by HGV vehicles and the actions companies take in response to complaints. 

[tiermat]

It's worth copying in the local Traffic Commissioner.  They do actually take notice of dangerous driving by HGV vehicles and the actions companies take in response to complaints.

Good tip, and one I will follow next time, once I find who it is! Who are they usually employed by/affiliated with? the local borough/county council or someone else?

[Regulator]

It's worth copying in the local Traffic Commissioner.  They do actually take notice of dangerous driving by HGV vehicles and the actions companies take in response to complaints.

Good tip, and one I will follow next time, once I find who it is! Who are they usually employed by/affiliated with? the local borough/county council or someone else?

Here you go:

Traffic Commissioners Details.

Contact details are on the right hand side of the page.

[tiermat]

Thanks, I shall bookmark that.

HGV drivers in the North and Yorkshire had better be on their best behaviour now

[Bairn Again]

Dear Sir or Madam

As a cyclist in Edinburgh, I have to say that on the whole Lothian Bus drivers are excellent. They're generally careful, thoughtful and considerate in their driving. However, today I came across one of the very few exceptions. Unfortunately I didn't get the numberplate, but it was a 14 heading up the Bridges towards Clerk Street. At about 11.45am I was heading south up the Bridges and stopped at the junction with Chambers Street/Infirmary Street. The 14 was behind me. When the lights turned green I set off, and was planning to keep quite wide right because there are two huge holes/sunken drains in the road which I wanted to avoid. Unfortunately the driver of the 14 had other ideas and passed me so closely and so fast I had to swerve out of his way to keep myself safe, narrowly missing the hole I'd been trying to avoid.

I realise that driving the methadone express is probably the worst bus job in the city and the driver was probably distracted by god knows what going on on the bus, but I'd appreciate it if he could be identified and reminded that he should give cyclists at least as much room as he would give a car, not pass so closely they have to swerve.


Thank you for your assistance - and like I say, most Lothian Bus drivers are great

Kirst

+1 to that Kirst. 

Theres a clear pecking order of cycle friendliness.  Lothian Buses - excellent, First Bus - poor, Scottish Citylink, get out their way at all costs.  Thankfully LRT (are they still called that?) buses make up the vast majority. 

If I took the numbers of all the commercial drivers I see using phones while driving Id be a busy boy and my commute to work is less than 3 miles.  DHL drivers near South Gyle seem to be serial offenders.  I should really.   

G. 

[SlowCoach]

It's always worth reporting issues with hauliers to the Traffic Commissioner. If nothing else, when the Operator's Licence comes up for review  If the file is thick enough (and it doesn't need to be very thick) they have a habit of asking "and how did you deal with the complaint on the 14th May at xxx involving yyy?"

On the day it should have taken less than 15 minutes for the transport office to have worked out that only 2 or 3 of their vehicles out of their fleet of 200 could possibly be in the area at that time (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that they may have a regular contract using that road with multiple pick ups per day). A little questioning of the drivers and an examination of tachographs the following day would have pinpointed the actual vehicle within 10 minutes or so. As they've let a little time elapse before checking it may take them half an hour or so to do now - it takes time to open the filing cabinet.

If they really wanted to - they could identify the driver. When I was a transport manager police once asked me to identify which of my HGV drivers may have witnessed an accident - some 10 months after the accident happened. All they had was a poor CCTV image of our company logo on the back of a vehicle. I was given a location, date, time and the direction the vehicle was travelling in - nothing more. It took me 20 minutes. It rather depends on how much effort you want to put into identifying your driver.

[Wowbagger]

I have just received this:-

We eventually traced the vehicle and driver down which was one of our
Manchester based vehicles

We apologise for the delay but when we say we are going to do something
we will do it

My colleague Rob Blackshaw who is our Manchester Depot manager did reply
to you on December 7th just after you re contacted me

Rob has carried out a full investigation and left the driver in no doubt
that he must always leave plenty of room for cyclists and treat them
with the care they require

Our vehicles cover nearly 12,000,000 miles per year and we get very few
complaints about our drivers but each complaint is investigated and
logged

We have checked the driver's tacho and satellite tracking during the
period of you complaint and we can definitely confirm he was not
exceeding any speed limit

Thank you for spending the time to point our driver's faults out which
we have acted upon and we have closed the matter now

Should you have any further points please contact me

Regards 

Bob Swain
R. Swain & Sons Ltd
Medway Freight Centre
Priory Road,
Strood,
Rochester,
Kent,
ME2 2BD

This is relevant to https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16168.msg1111155#msg1111155 above.

I have checked my emails and can find no trace of the email from Mr. Blackshaw to which Mr. Swain refers.

[simonp]

Draft letter:

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you to bring to your attention the driving of one of your employees. Whilst riding northbound on Milton Road (near the Milton Arms public house) this morning (7th February 2012), at about 10.30am I was passed dangerously by bus reg. XXXX XXX, a green Stagecoach bio-bus.

This bus overtook me very close whilst I was riding at 20mph, sufficiently close and fast that I was sucked even closer the bus by the pressure differential. I was able to regain control, but then the driver compounded their error by cutting in on me whilst still passing, such that they came within inches of a collision and forced me to steer left to take avoiding action. I'm sure you will appreciate that it was only because I was able to take avoiding action that a serious accident was avoided.

When I tried to read the registration plate of the bus I was unable to do so as it was illegible due to being obscured by dirt. I'm sure you are aware that this is illegal. However, inevitably, the bus was held by the next set of traffic lights at the Milton Road / Kings Hedges road so I was able to advance to the front of the bus in the cycle lane, to observe the front numberplate.

I have been passed close by Stagecoach vehicles many times over the years, however I rank this as one of the most dangerous incidents in more than 20 years of regular cycling and could not let this pass without complaint.

Regards,

[Karla]

Draft letter:

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you to bring to your attention the driving of one of your employees. Whilst riding northbound on Milton Road (near the Milton Arms public house) this morning (7th February 2012), at about 10.30am I was passed dangerously by bus reg. XXXX XXX, a green Stagecoach bio-bus.

This bus overtook me very close whilst I was riding at 20mph, sufficiently close and fast that I was sucked even closer TO the bus by the pressure differential. I was able to regain control, but then the driver compounded their error by cutting in on me whilst still passing, such that they came within inches of a collision and forced me to steer left to take avoiding action. I'm sure you will appreciate that it was only because I was able to take avoiding action that a serious accident DID NOT OCCUR. (too many uses of 'avoid')

When I tried to read the registration plate of the bus COMMA I was unable to do so as it was illegible due to being obscured by dirt. I'm sure you are aware that this is illegal. However, inevitably, the bus was held by the next set of traffic lights at the Milton Road / Kings Hedges road so I was able to advance to the front of the bus in the cycle lane, to observe the front numberplate.

I have been passed close by Stagecoach vehicles many times over the years FULL STOP? however I rank this as one of the most dangerous incidents in more than 20 years of regular cycling and could not let this pass without complaint.

Regards,

HTH

[Rhys W]

<the guy who answered my initial query>,

Thanks for the prompt reply. I was out cycling on Tuesday morning (18/9/12) at approximately 11:57am along the B4239 Wentloog Avenue, on a long straight stretch approaching Peterstone Golf Course. I saw three vehicles approaching me, travelling in the opposite direction (towards Lamby Way) - a white van followed by a white Trikon van and a car. None of the vehicles seemed to be travelling particularly slowly so I would estimate they were being driven close to (if not slightly exceeding) the speed limit for that road (50mph). When the van in front was approximately 50 metres away from me the Trikon van in the middle pulled out to try and overtake when there was clearly no room to do so safely with traffic (me) coming the other way. Faced with a large van travelling towards me at 50mph + on the wrong side of the road I had to quickly dismount and jump off the road into the grass verge. It would have only taken him a few seconds more to wait until the opposite carriageway was clear and overtake when it was safe to do so. In my opinion this was a deliberate attempt to intimidate a more vulnerable road user, there was no question he could not have seen me on a straight stretch of road in bright daylight.

I encounter bad and often dangerous driving on a regular basis; it is however rare to be deliberately run off the road like that, fearing for my life. Your driver drove off before I could take his number but I am sure with the drivers routes being known it would be possible to confirm who this driver is and re-educate him before he kills somebody. It was only because that I failed to take the registration number that I reporting this to you and not going straight to the police  - from recent experience from friends who have suffered similar incidents whilst out cycling, the police take such incidents seriously.

I look forward to hearing from you with information of the action you have taken.

Regards,

Hi Rhys,

Apologies for the late reply but I wanted to wait until our weekly meeting before I raised this.

Firstly many thanks for bringing this to our attention as after your precise details of the event the driver did admit to the offence.
The driver has been given a warning. We have had a thorough discussion in regards to this and have re-iterated that such behaviour will not be tolerated.

Please accept our sincerest apologies and again many thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Martin109]

Dear Sir/Madam

I am not intending the matter described below to be treated as a formal complaint, but as a matter of concern that should be brought to the notice of TVP.  I do not have identifying details of the officer or vehicle involved, but do have time and place and, even if the officer cannot be identified, I feel the incident is worthy of being logged. It is particularly of concern, I feel, as it is about ignorance and attitude. 

I was riding northbound on Stoke Poges Lane in Slough at around 10:50am on Saturday 22 September.  I was about halfway between the Elliman Avenue junction and the junction with Granville Avenue further north, so about on a level with Mildenhall Road, as that road name appears in this Google map:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=slough&hl=en&ll=51.523004,-0.596867&spn=0.019386,0.037937&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=9.643526,19.423828&hnear=Slough,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=15

At that point, a male officer of about 35 in a silver people-carrier type Police vehicle had been parked on the pavement and verge, and was clearly preparing to move off.  On the northbound side of the road, in the direction I was riding, there was a queue of traffic, but there was a bit of a gap, and the officer was intending to turn right through it into the southbound carriageway.  However, in preparing this manoeuvre, he moved into the green-painted cycle lane without looking to his right, as I approached.  I had to stop, and said 'Oi!' by way of remonstration, which he did not appear to hear.  Then he did look right and noticed me, and I gesticulated by pointing to my chest with a sense of 'I'm here; it's my right of way'.  Now that he had noticed me, I proceeded to ride around the nose of his vehicle, regained the cycle lane and proceeded on my way.  In those few moments he had wound his passenger side window down and said 'You shouldn't be travelling through the traffic.'

It seems to me that the officer was very lucky that, this time, his actions did not result in an incident involving damage and/or injury; he moved his vehicle into the carriageway without looking, ie without due care and attention.  I had the right of way. He then proceeded to make out that this was my fault for filtering along a cycle lane, which I believe I am allowed to do. This displays a level of ignorance about what cyclists are and are not allowed to do!

I trust that you will give this matter careful consideration.

Yours sincerely
etc etc

[Wowbagger]

Sent to the Top Bod in Rochford Police

Dear Chief Inspector Cummings,

   I am prompted to contact you because I am heartily sick of repeat offending by the drivers of JKS Construction (Rochford) Ltd. I am aware that two out of the three offences I refer to below happened outside your area, but since the company is based in Rochford I felt it was appropriate to contact yourself in the first instance.

   On 28th August, at 2.50 p.m. I contacted the offices of JKS Construction because one of their drivers had just forced me off the road by a dangerously close overtaking manoeuvre. This took place on Sutton Road as I was approaching Purdey’s Way, heading towards Rochford. Not only did the driver overtake when there was a vehicle approaching form the opposite direction thereby forcing me of the road, almost immediately he was obliged to stop in a queue of traffic, indicating that his manoeuvre was totally pointless. Unfortunately I did not manage to make a note of the registration number on that occasion, but within minutes of the incident I telephoned the company’s offices and a woman by the name of Serena was very apologetic, told me that she was pretty certain she knew which driver it was (he was returning to the company’s Purdey’s Way depot) and that I would receive a return call from their Fleet Manager the following day. I am still waiting for that call and I now sincerely regret not contacting the police at the time: it’s no joke when huge lorries hurtle past a few inches from your skull and then cut in so suddenly that you are forced onto the grass verge.

   On 18th September, at about 3.40 p.m., I witnessed JKS truck registration number EU06EMK progressing southwards along Victoria Avenue whilst the driver had his mobile phone lodged firmly in his right ear. It is bad enough when car drivers use their phones, but when the drivers of massive HGVs do so in a busy area at a time when schoolchildren are on their way home it is completely unacceptable.

   Finally, whilst out on Sat. 22nd Sept I witnessed another JKS driver, reg. no. EY60PWE  on the Rettendon Bell roundabout, mobile phone in hand, presumably texting. It’s illegal, incredibly dangerous and must stop!

   Over quite a long period there have been other close overtakes and poor driving of the JKS fleet that makes the company stand out as having some of the worst drivers on the roads of SE Essex. It is clear to me that JKS Construction Ltd. do not, as a company, take seriously the danger that their vehicles represent. I would therefore be grateful if you would follow up my complaint relating firstly to the specific incidents I have witnessed, and secondly the generally poor standard of driving which JKS management evidently feel is acceptable.

Yours sincerely

[Regulator]

Sent to the Top Bod in Rochford Police

Dear Chief Inspector Cummings,

   I am prompted to contact you because I am heartily sick of repeat offending by the drivers of JKS Construction (Rochford) Ltd. I am aware that two out of the three offences I refer to below happened outside your area, but since the company is based in Rochford I felt it was appropriate to contact yourself in the first instance.

   On 28th August, at 2.50 p.m. I contacted the offices of JKS Construction because one of their drivers had just forced me off the road by a dangerously close overtaking manoeuvre. This took place on Sutton Road as I was approaching Purdey’s Way, heading towards Rochford. Not only did the driver overtake when there was a vehicle approaching form the opposite direction thereby forcing me of the road, almost immediately he was obliged to stop in a queue of traffic, indicating that his manoeuvre was totally pointless. Unfortunately I did not manage to make a note of the registration number on that occasion, but within minutes of the incident I telephoned the company’s offices and a woman by the name of Serena was very apologetic, told me that she was pretty certain she knew which driver it was (he was returning to the company’s Purdey’s Way depot) and that I would receive a return call from their Fleet Manager the following day. I am still waiting for that call and I now sincerely regret not contacting the police at the time: it’s no joke when huge lorries hurtle past a few inches from your skull and then cut in so suddenly that you are forced onto the grass verge.

   On 18th September, at about 3.40 p.m., I witnessed JKS truck registration number EU06EMK progressing southwards along Victoria Avenue whilst the driver had his mobile phone lodged firmly in his right ear. It is bad enough when car drivers use their phones, but when the drivers of massive HGVs do so in a busy area at a time when schoolchildren are on their way home it is completely unacceptable.

   Finally, whilst out on Sat. 22nd Sept I witnessed another JKS driver, reg. no. EY60PWE  on the Rettendon Bell roundabout, mobile phone in hand, presumably texting. It’s illegal, incredibly dangerous and must stop!

   Over quite a long period there have been other close overtakes and poor driving of the JKS fleet that makes the company stand out as having some of the worst drivers on the roads of SE Essex. It is clear to me that JKS Construction Ltd. do not, as a company, take seriously the danger that their vehicles represent. I would therefore be grateful if you would follow up my complaint relating firstly to the specific incidents I have witnessed, and secondly the generally poor standard of driving which JKS management evidently feel is acceptable.

Yours sincerely

I suggest you copy your letter to the local Traffic Commissioner.  They take complaints seriously and are more likely to act than the police.  They can take a vehicle operator's license off them.

[SlowCoach]

Can I second Reg's suggestion - copy your letter to the Traffic Commissioner. The complaint letter goes on file against the company. If the file comes out to put the letter in - it has a habit, in some traffic offices, of ending up in the tray for "Company Visits" rather than the refile tray. The contents of the letter then tend to be used as a basis for "topics for discussion" whilst the inspectorate peruse your tachograph records.

[Regulator]

Funnily enough, one of my old colleagues used to work for one of the Traffic Commissioners.  She said a very similar thing - when they get letters of complaint that's usually seen as a flag that the company may need looking at a little more closely.

[Regulator]

Dear Sir/Madam

I am not intending the matter described below to be treated as a formal complaint, but as a matter of concern that should be brought to the notice of TVP.  I do not have identifying details of the officer or vehicle involved, but do have time and place and, even if the officer cannot be identified, I feel the incident is worthy of being logged. It is particularly of concern, I feel, as it is about ignorance and attitude. 

I was riding northbound on Stoke Poges Lane in Slough at around 10:50am on Saturday 22 September.  I was about halfway between the Elliman Avenue junction and the junction with Granville Avenue further north, so about on a level with Mildenhall Road, as that road name appears in this Google map:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=slough&hl=en&ll=51.523004,-0.596867&spn=0.019386,0.037937&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=9.643526,19.423828&hnear=Slough,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=15

At that point, a male officer of about 35 in a silver people-carrier type Police vehicle had been parked on the pavement and verge, and was clearly preparing to move off.  On the northbound side of the road, in the direction I was riding, there was a queue of traffic, but there was a bit of a gap, and the officer was intending to turn right through it into the southbound carriageway.  However, in preparing this manoeuvre, he moved into the green-painted cycle lane without looking to his right, as I approached.  I had to stop, and said 'Oi!' by way of remonstration, which he did not appear to hear.  Then he did look right and noticed me, and I gesticulated by pointing to my chest with a sense of 'I'm here; it's my right of way'.  Now that he had noticed me, I proceeded to ride around the nose of his vehicle, regained the cycle lane and proceeded on my way.  In those few moments he had wound his passenger side window down and said 'You shouldn't be travelling through the traffic.'

It seems to me that the officer was very lucky that, this time, his actions did not result in an incident involving damage and/or injury; he moved his vehicle into the carriageway without looking, ie without due care and attention.  I had the right of way. He then proceeded to make out that this was my fault for filtering along a cycle lane, which I believe I am allowed to do. This displays a level of ignorance about what cyclists are and are not allowed to do!

I trust that you will give this matter careful consideration.

Yours sincerely
etc etc

The only quibble is that you didn't have 'right of way' but 'priority'... other than that, a very good letter.  I'd be interested to see what response you get.

[David Martin]

Quibble. You both had 'right of way'. Neither of you had priority as such a concept doesn't exist, though the concept of giving way does. however he should have taken care to not impede moving traffic when moving off.

[Martin109]

Surely, if I'm proceeding along the carriageway, and he's joining it, I have right of way.  If he had been joining from a subsidiary road, there would have been a sign for him to obey - Give Way.