Author Topic: [LEL17] The wisdom of a late start time?  (Read 21486 times)

Chris N

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #25 on: 15 January, 2017, 01:34:19 pm »
The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.

I've never done LEL, but am interested in these relaxed attitudes..  I think that I am sort of intending to try and sleep nights.  Lesson from PBP was "less faffing, more sleeping" I think

Info from https://londonedinburghlondon.com/faq/
Quote
What happens if I arrive late at a control?
Tip: controls heading north, as far as Brampton, will remain open until all riders have passed through northbound and southbound. This means you do not need to worry if you have a time deficit early in the ride.

and

Folk absolutely shouldn't feel compelled to skip a night's sleep to avoid being late to early controls. So we're taking a pragmatic approach to intermediate control times on the way up.

show nicely that we needn't worry. :thumbsup:

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #26 on: 15 January, 2017, 01:38:44 pm »
Nothing could be worse than PBP 2015 when they managed to run out of food for the pre-start meal even though folk had paid in advance for a meal that was an optional extra meaning they had exact numbers!

As a volunteer at Brampton on last LEL I have no doubt all controllers would do everything they could do to help support riders and that included proving food.

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #27 on: 15 January, 2017, 03:22:53 pm »
If you're a vegetarian, or suffer from allergies or intolerances, there may not actually be a difference between "no food" and "limited selection".
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wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
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Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #28 on: 15 January, 2017, 03:59:27 pm »
jsabine is right; at some controls the riders at the back got dregs. Fact.

We really don't want that to happen again.

Most of our catering is contracted out now, and they all have our agreement to keep ordering food without needing to get my permission. At other controls they are under v. strict instructions to keep it basic to keep it flowing to the end.

We shan't mention Market Rasen, which was eye-opening for everyone, is a sample size of just one, and I'm sure never to be repeated!  In contrast, Thirsk and Pocklington stuck in my memory for a terrific spread on the way back south, and I was bouncing along in/out of time most of the way back  :thumbsup:  I'm still going to miss whisky in my porridge at Traquir this time, though  :facepalm:

Nothing could be worse than PBP 2015 when they managed to run out of food for the pre-start meal even though folk had paid in advance for a meal that was an optional extra meaning they had exact numbers!

Ay, that was somewhat of a disappointment and certainly adversely affected The Plan — and the first stage on PBP was a long one before the next opportunity to eat at Mortagne au Perche.  If nothing else, at least there are more corner-shop/pub/garage-stop opportunities between Loughton and St Ives than in France.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

mattc

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Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #29 on: 15 January, 2017, 04:45:14 pm »
If you're a vegetarian, or suffer from allergies or intolerances, there may not actually be a difference between "no food" and "limited selection".
... and equally so between "no food" and "food at many AUK controls". A selection of hot food all containing allergens isn't much use, I'd say.

It's usually the stuff with "interesting" ingredients that runs out first - stuff with gluten and animal products! There is a certain lottery aspect to this on any event; it can be a lot worse on events in certain other countries, especially for vegans.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
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Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #30 on: 15 January, 2017, 07:19:15 pm »
as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light

THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )

dave

I appear to taken my sharp "stick" and rammed it fully into the hornet's nest.
I personally was well fed at all the controls on the last LEL. FACT

I am glad to see that the organisers are aware of the issue.

cheers

Dave

We're supposed to be feeding them not fatting them........quote from chef on LEL

frillipippi

  • from Italy
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #31 on: 15 January, 2017, 08:38:19 pm »
There's an issue with a late start: as there are more than 26 different start times, regular alphabet letters won't be enough for identifying them  ???, so if a code like AA, AB, AC, etc. should be assigned after the 26th start time, a late start would imply more ink and hence a slightly heavier id. Other solutions could be digits, Greek and Cyrillic letters, or a colour coding. In case of a colour coding, of course, riders should be timely informed in order to consider the possibility of matching valve caps.  ;D

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #32 on: 15 January, 2017, 10:04:02 pm »
Come to think of it, werent you on a similar schedule that year Rob? Did you have any problems?

I don't recall any problems. Indeed, at the final control I think Teethgrinder was so keen to get rid of his stockpile that I could have eaten three or four times what I needed. And I know that in 2013 no one left Great Easton hungry  :smug:
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #33 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:19:57 am »
The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.

I've never done LEL, but am interested in these relaxed attitudes..  I think that I am sort of intending to try and sleep nights.  Lesson from PBP was "less faffing, more sleeping" I think

Info from https://londonedinburghlondon.com/faq/
Quote
What happens if I arrive late at a control?
Tip: controls heading north, as far as Brampton, will remain open until all riders have passed through northbound and southbound. This means you do not need to worry if you have a time deficit early in the ride.

and

Folk absolutely shouldn't feel compelled to skip a night's sleep to avoid being late to early controls. So we're taking a pragmatic approach to intermediate control times on the way up.

show nicely that we needn't worry. :thumbsup:

That all makes me very happy

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #34 on: 17 January, 2017, 12:27:41 pm »
Although this has not been kicked around with the controllers yet .. I do think that a  quick guy can not expect to turn up 4 or 5 hours out of time .. on the argument .. well I can catch up easily.

Yes .. some sort of soft approach to times .. but no piss taking by riders .. as that is not fair on the controller and the volunteers at that control., as piss taking extends their opening hours, especially if they are a control which has a break between  North bound and the arrival of returning Southbound riders.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Chris N

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #35 on: 17 January, 2017, 12:33:59 pm »

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #36 on: 17 January, 2017, 12:41:09 pm »
Although this has not been kicked around with the controllers yet .. I do think that a  quick guy can not expect to turn up 4 or 5 hours out of time .. on the argument .. well I can catch up easily.

Yes .. some sort of soft approach to times .. but no piss taking by riders .. as that is not fair on the controller and the volunteers at that control., as piss taking extends their opening hours, especially if they are a control which has a break between  North bound and the arrival of returning Southbound riders.

I am really encouraged how much the organisers seem to be bending backwards to try to make everyone happy on this ride, including flexible opening times, diets and arranging extra halls for more beds in certain places and hundreds of other stuff. But Fidgetbuzz raises a point that I've been thinking about too. If you ask too many questions or provide too many options for us then there will always be some who will try to push it too far and take the piss. It's always those few who can cause the most aggro on a ride to helpers and organisers compared to everyone else who just keeps their head low and gets on with it.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #37 on: 17 January, 2017, 06:51:17 pm »
as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light

THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )

Regardless of the food side of things, there are all sorts of other reasons why I would think it's a bad idea for a full value rider to opt for a later start time - for a start, you're not giving yourself much leeway if you're held up by mechanical problems.

While I won't be troubling the winner's podium, I don't intend to get anything like full value from this ride and that is a factor in my reasons for preferring a later start time.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #38 on: 17 January, 2017, 07:19:20 pm »
........ especially if they are a control which has a break between  North bound and the arrival of returning Southbound riders.

Must have missed that break at Brampton last time!

As a volunteer last time, fully support the other comments by Fidgetbuzz and also agree with those from Jacques who reiterates the lengths that are being taken to accommodate riders.  Above and beyond the call of duty springs to mind.

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #39 on: 17 January, 2017, 11:26:54 pm »
as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light

THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )

Regardless of the food side of things, there are all sorts of other reasons why I would think it's a bad idea for a full value rider to opt for a later start time - for a start, you're not giving yourself much leeway if you're held up by mechanical problems.


How so? Because they would be chasing closing controls? They would have the same amount of time to complete the ride presumably regardless of mechanicals whenever they start.

I'm currently favouring an around lunchtime start. Means I can get to the start at a relaxed time without a stupid o'clock start, get around 250km in the bag before a sleep at sensible o'clock. I know I won't sleep if I try to sleep before midnight on the first night. Get up in daylight and get a nice day's ride in on the first full day.


hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #40 on: 17 January, 2017, 11:32:04 pm »
Suspect it is chasing closing controls.
Being out of time at an intermediate control might be accepted/ignored but arriving after the controllers had packed up might not be.

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #41 on: 18 January, 2017, 06:44:39 am »
Suspect it is chasing closing controls.
Being out of time at an intermediate control might be accepted/ignored but arriving after the controllers had packed up might not be.
Surely you get the same time for the event no matter what time you start and controls will be open for the normal time windows allowed for the minimum speed for your start time?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #42 on: 18 January, 2017, 10:17:24 am »
They would have the same amount of time to complete the ride

Yes, of course. I wasn't thinking it through properly.  :facepalm:
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #43 on: 18 January, 2017, 10:29:54 am »
I agree with Helly.

If you are an earlier start time and fall (as an extreme example) 6 hours behind your time, on this event you could theoretically make up that time before the final control as the controls will still be operating for later starters.

If you are a late starter and full value and fall behind you will find the controls have physically closed and gone home. I would assume the volunteers will start to clean up and close down the controls just after the last 'in-time' riders go through. You might still make up the time, but the controls will no longer be available to you as you do so.
The older you get, the better you get, unless you are a banana.

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #44 on: 18 January, 2017, 10:33:51 am »
For a full value rider, an early start also has the attraction that it is more likely that you will have some company on the road for at least two-thirds of the event, even though it will usually be later starters catching up.  If you are in a late start group (as I was in 09) then once the faster riders have disappeared over the horizon, you can end up spending a lot of time on your own. 
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #45 on: 18 January, 2017, 10:47:17 am »
My concern with starting at say 2pm and riding to Louth and doing 240km, is will there be enough beds? or do I start a 3 or 4pm and stop at Spalding and get an earlier night? downside of that one is I could be riding at lot on my own being at the back, playing catch up.

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #46 on: 18 January, 2017, 11:01:24 am »
louth is in for 300 beds, spalding for 250  .. probably does not help your decision making, but might do.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #47 on: 18 January, 2017, 02:53:03 pm »
My concern with starting at say 2pm and riding to Louth and doing 240km, is will there be enough beds? or do I start a 3 or 4pm and stop at Spalding and get an earlier night? downside of that one is I could be riding at lot on my own being at the back, playing catch up.

I'm toying with the idea of entering, it will be my first and probably last attempt at this one.
My thoughts was to start 2 or 3pm and try and make Louth by 2 or 3 am, so you could keep me company (if you're not too fast that is). any later and it would have to be Spalding for an early bed and early rise.

redfalo

  • known as Olaf in the real world
    • Cycling Intelligence
Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #48 on: 18 January, 2017, 03:14:14 pm »
My concern with starting at say 2pm and riding to Louth and doing 240km, is will there be enough beds? or do I start a 3 or 4pm and stop at Spalding and get an earlier night? downside of that one is I could be riding at lot on my own being at the back, playing catch up.

This comment by LEL chief stewart @alwyn may be helpful in this regard: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=100779.msg2119353#msg2119353

I came to the conclusion that if I chose a late start time, I'll try to ride through the first night.
If you can't convince, confuse.

https://cycling-intelligence.com/ - my blog on cycling, long distances and short ones

Re: The wisdom of a late start time?
« Reply #49 on: 19 January, 2017, 01:35:37 pm »
Late start permits doing Ride London earlier in the day and ECE to 1600km. Anyone else here mentally unstable enough to also be considering this possibility?