Cross Training: Running

[citoyen]

Just smashed my Parkrun PB! 20.28! Over the flipping moon!

Bearing in mind that the route is slightly over distance (according to my GPS I did an extra 65 metres today, which took 11 seconds) and there's a bit of a slope in the middle of the circuit that doesn't seem too steep but is deceptive and I reckon adds on about 10 seconds per lap (the course is two laps)... I reckon I could definitely do sub 20 minutes on a flat, accurately measured course. Really chuffed with that performance though - it's at least 15 seconds off my old PB.

I reckon shedding a few more kilos would definitely help too - I'm about 69kg at the moment, which is a healthy enough weight, but I'm aiming for a "race weight" of 64kg, which is probably enough to make a difference to my time, especially on a non-flat course. (And would help me get up hills faster on my bike too, of course.)

Edit: according to Strava, my actual pace was 4.03min/km but my grade adjusted pace was 3.58min/km. I'll have that!

[mattc]

Somewhere on this thread I posted some estimate for time-gained-per-kg of weight loss, wot I found on the internet. It seems to be pretty accurate over quite a range of people.

You gain a lot more time than you would on the bike, for similar weight loss. Could be good motivation for that diet.

(Of course if you really want to go under 20mins, find a track event!)

[citoyen]

Thanks - I'll have a root back through the thread for that when I have proper computer access. Sounds interesting.

And yes, I could definitely go sub-20 on the track but much as I want to break that barrier, there's more to life than just registering a time - one of the things I love about parkrun is the scenery...

[David Martin]

Missed it today as I went hill walking. But I am supposed to be doing a personal 10k challenge tomorrow. *gulp*

[citoyen]

Good luck!

[citoyen]

Just had a look at the times posted on the new Ramsgate parkrun that started at the weekend. Interesting. Most of the people who took part who have also run the Whitstable parkrun (my local one) achieved significantly faster times on the Ramsgate course - over a minute faster in quite a few cases.

I think I've found the answer to my quest for a sub-20 time! 

And to think I would have cycled over to do the Ramsgate run if I'd managed to get out of bed in time on Saturday. Definitely going to give it a go very soon though - I'll just have to remember to keep the effort low on the ride over (it's about 18 miles) to save some juice for the run. It'll be good tri training too.

The times posted on the Margate course seem generally a bit quicker too.

[citoyen]

Somewhere on this thread I posted some estimate for time-gained-per-kg of weight loss, wot I found on the internet. It seems to be pretty accurate over quite a range of people.

You gain a lot more time than you would on the bike, for similar weight loss. Could be good motivation for that diet.

This was posted on tritalk:
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/diet/weighteffect

According to that, I only have to get down to 67kg to go sub-20, and I could be looking at sub-19 minutes if I get my weight down to my target 64kg.

[Greenbank]

Bailed my 20 minute run halfway as my back was hurting. Not enough core strength to cope with my flabbiness.

Opted for 10 minutes on the step machine (keeping heart rate ~ 170bpm) and then 1000m on the rowing machine as punishment for being weak.

[David Martin]

The 10K didn't happen - combination of a cold and rather painful legs. I'm not sure what the best approach is - to run gently on aching legs. To rest completely. or to just MTFU and get on with it.

[citoyen]

Slightly OT: I've found that GPS watches overestimate running distance by a small amount. I've done comparison tests over routes with them mounted on the handlebars cycling, and on my wrist when running, and the handlebar mounted result is always much closer to my cateye computer result/measured off Gmap-pedometer. I'm wondering if your arm swinging to-and-fro adds some complication, especially as there's a running GPS out now which claims to smooth that out (a Suunto? I forget which one).

Interesting. I've not heard that one before. I do notice a fair bit of variation in the measured distance - my local parkrun varies from 5.01 to 5.07km according to my Garmin, even though it's exactly the same route every week, and even when there are no obvious GPS glitches. It's possible that I'm starting and/or finishing in slightly different places each week but not enough to account for a 60 metre variation!

The 10k race I did a few weeks ago clocked as exactly 10km - which probably means it was actually short...

This can get irritating on longer races so if I'm racing and want accurate splits, I'll hit the lap button every so often when I pass a roadside distance marker to re-set the distances,

That's a good idea. I might try that as well.

like the Town & Gown 10k the other week where I hit the "lap" as I passed the 5k point: Garmin Connect.

That's a bizarrely convoluted looking route! Good time though.

[Lady Cavendish]

GPS's aren't *that* accurate. Plus, you are never going to run the exact racing line.

An accurately measured 5k will always come out around 3.14 or 3.15 miles at best, not 3.11. And that is with a good line run.

It's standard for a marathon to be 26.5 or 26.6 on the garmin. This doesn't mean the course is long. If I had £1 for the amount of times I've heard 'the course was long'...............

Regarding the weight calculator things, extra lbs make a huge difference. But it's not quite as simple as lose x lbs will make me x seconds faster. It's even there on the bottom of the calculator 'this calculation is based on the (unrealistic) assumption that the change in weight is not accompanied by any other change.' It makes a massive difference, but don't just assume at x weight you will run x time.

[citoyen]

It's standard for a marathon to be 26.5 or 26.6 on the garmin. This doesn't mean the course is long. If I had £1 for the amount of times I've heard 'the course was long'...............

Fair point.

I did the Ramsgate parkrun today and it came in at 4.88km on my Garmin - I can understand over-distance on a GPS but under-distance? By that much? Hmm. Explains the fast times though!

I ran 20.15, which is kind of disappointing given the flat course and the short distance, but on the other hand, I had cycled 30km at a moderate-to-brisk pace to the start, which probably took more out of me than I realised, plus I was a touch wheezy with hayfever. Also, I went off too fast at the start - first km in 3.50 - and paid for it later. Foolishly tried to keep up with some very fast runners rather than keeping an eye on my pacer (the winner finished in 15.30).

Regarding the weight calculator things, extra lbs make a huge difference. But it's not quite as simple as lose x lbs will make me x seconds faster. It's even there on the bottom of the calculator 'this calculation is based on the (unrealistic) assumption that the change in weight is not accompanied by any other change.' It makes a massive difference, but don't just assume at x weight you will run x time.

Of course. I'm taking it as read that all other things are equal in making that assumption about time differences, but well aware that's not how it works in the real world. The matter is discussed at greater length in the thread on tritalk where I got the link from.

[citoyen]

The 10K didn't happen - combination of a cold and rather painful legs. I'm not sure what the best approach is - to run gently on aching legs. To rest completely. or to just MTFU and get on with it.

Bit late to answer this now but I would say rest completely, or some very gentle exercise (maybe just a walk rather than a run). MTFU is fine as a philosophy but you could just end up injuring yourself.

[mattc]

parkruns are runs, not races - so I don't think anyone enforces accurate distances 
(plus they're off-road, so it's only really course PBs that mean anything, surely?)

_{I've always said that GPSes are for position not distance - but there's a whole nother forum for that discussion...}

I managed about 300m this morning - calf strain still clearly not right, grumble whinge. Then retired to my post ready to scan barcodes.

One runner found a new way to screw the system - as I was scanning her athlete barcode, she casually tossed her finishing tag into the box with all the others 


Got a cut-n-paste thankyou text later - better than nothing I guess

[ Scanning is a much better job than marshalling. You can doss about until the 'winner' arrives, then it's pretty much all busy busy until the end, it's fun dealing with totally fecked runners. And you don't have to walk miles! ]

[citoyen]

parkruns are runs, not races - so I don't think anyone enforces accurate distances 

I suppose in a lot of cases they're constrained by having to fit it into a certain sized/shaped park. It would be difficult to add an extra 120m to the course of the one I did today.

It would be churlish to complain given they're free to enter and run by volunteers.

(plus they're off-road, so it's only really course PBs that mean anything, surely?)

Indeed. I wouldn't compare a time on one parkrun course to a time on another. Totally irrelevant. I'll have to find a track-based event if I want to get my definitive 5k time.

[citoyen]

Today I volunteered to take part in this:
http://hellyhansenbeautyandthebeast.co.uk/

...as part of a team of three, mind. I kind of like the *idea* of doing the whole thing, but having never done a full marathon over *easy* terrain, doing one on that kind of terrain might be biting off more than I can chew.

Should be fun!

[davelodwig]

In the wind down before my 10k race on Saturday.

I'm taking part in the 2 castles run, from Warwick castle to Kenilworth castle, after my last 10k on Sunday I'm pretty confident that I'm going to get all 102KG of me round in just under an hour, based on my race pace usually being 30 to 45 seconds a km faster than normal days running.

This is a pretty big deal for me as all I've done in the last 2 years of running is stuff on my own and a couple of 5k park runs, While I might not be fast in comparison to others the 6 / 6.30 km's I'm doing now are miles better than the 10 minute km I started with.

Might do a half marathon next...

[citoyen]

Good luck, dl!

I've just done the Sri Chinmoy 5k in Battersea Park - first in a series of Monday evening 5k races throughout summer. Great setting and what a beautiful evening for it (despite the high pollen levels causing wheeziness and streaming eyes and nose). Nice fast course too - got round in 20.16, which I'm pretty pleased with.

Lovely way to end what has otherwise been a pretty shitty day. Might do some more of these...

http://uk.srichinmoyraces.org/races/london

[mattc]

I've been a bit reluctant to talk about this, but ... <deep breath>

I recently did my first Hash run: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_House_Harriers

I know they won't appeal to everyone (!), but they have a lot going for them. I don't think I've done any other social sporting activity that caters so well for a range of abilities. They're like an off-road fartlek session, on a route someone else has devised, where everyone goes at their own pace, but you're guaranteed to run with others, and can chat - ending up at a pub.(I wonder which YACF moderator seems most likely to have done this sort of thing ... )

Although I've only done the one, I think the groups vary a lot in terms of the alcohol consumption, and the extent of the bizarre rituals (luckily there are several groups within my range!). They're mostly weekday evening affairs (or weekends in winter), plus the various national and international gatherings.

(At some point I shall investigate Bike Hashes.)

[citoyen]

Running and drinking? Sounds like my idea of fun!

[citoyen]

Mentioned H3 to my dad. He's well aware of their work. He was acquainted with the Port Of Spain branch for a while when he was working out there. Described them as "drinkers with a running problem" and "dangerous".

[SteveC]

Did a barn dance for one of our local H3 groups.  Possibly the least romantic Valentine's event I've ever been to!  But it was fun.
They described themselves as 'Drinkers with a running problem'.

[mattc]

I used to be in the cross-country team for my grammar school, and although we were aware of Hashing we considered it a bit of a posh toff's sport, 

Actually I was expecting something related to the hunting/shooting/fishing type culture, but they don't seem to be that sort at all.

[mattc]

There's a few new lines in this:

http://iancorless.org/2013/06/12/you-know-you-are-an-ultra-runner-when/
(a few ring very true from my Audax trips)

[zigzag]

inspired by mattc's link, decided to run 7km to the bike shop to pick up the prize i won two weeks ago