Author Topic: Cross Training: Running  (Read 430502 times)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #175 on: 25 October, 2009, 08:39:51 pm »
lovely five mile run this afternoon.  My foot was really sore last week but changing back to normal laces (from stretchy tri time-cheating ones) and getting the shoes a bit tighter round my toes seems to have done the trick.

Lots more this week.

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #176 on: 31 October, 2009, 11:07:59 am »
going stir crazy resting these pins ???
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #177 on: 31 October, 2009, 09:50:43 pm »
No pool and no bike so I have been running. Not much, but enjoying it, even on a treadmill.

Start at 7mph and go up 0.1 mph every .25 miles. Gets me some exercise.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

simonp

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #178 on: 01 November, 2009, 12:55:42 am »
I started a bit gingerly because I wasn't sure about my knee.  An 8kph jog then ramped it up to about 12.5kph which is a run.  12.5kph is 7.76mph - so starting at 7mph would have felt quite fast.

Fun run is on the 20th.  In the past I've be able to do a 1.1 mile lap in approx 7 minutes, so need to be able to run at almost 9.5mph average by then.  Preferably a little bit faster to try to get a sub 7 minute time.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #179 on: 01 November, 2009, 02:11:07 am »
I think it is just my natural rhythm - running slower than about 6.8 is laboured, but it is nice to warm up a bit and then get intense before my brain fries on the treadmill.

Still carrying too much weight to run for long before the legs start to ache some in 'carrying far to much weight' ways rather than run too far ways.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

simonp

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #180 on: 03 November, 2009, 09:38:11 pm »
I did 30 mins on the treadmill tonight, ramped speed up to 13kph.  Which, after my 5000m rowing felt pretty brisk.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #181 on: 04 November, 2009, 12:33:21 am »
Found something to do when the London Marathon is on TV. I'll be running the Brighton Marathon. Time to start training

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #182 on: 04 November, 2009, 10:17:11 am »
Got results from MRI scan last night - as they suspected problem is scar tissue on achilles where it joins the bone.  Challenge is to break down the scar tissue over time.

Expect to be months and months to complete recovery, becos' this area has a very poor blood supply, but I'm allowed (encouraged even) to run, short and sharp is good.  Lots of stretching and strengthening stuff.  Expect pain but manage around it - which is OK.

So I'm pretty bullish today! 

"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #183 on: 09 November, 2009, 01:46:42 pm »
Druid Challenge - Muddy Funsters

Well, I made 20 miles before all the wheels fell off my wagon.

It opened in thick mist (and stoats hunting bunnies) and the first half was decent: everyone was walking the hills and saving their energy, so my strategy wasn't out of place. When the mist lifted it was only to allow proper rain.

Halfway through, around the White Horse, my right knee (o Judas knee) went sproing. After some pissing and moaning, and some experimenting, I was able to carry on to the next checkpoint with a mix of walking and some weird short-step running called the "Ironman shuffle".

After that, things froze up more and I was in walk-or-die mode. The next few miles were weird, a single file of knackered walkers in a stark hilltop-and-mist landscape: it looked like the pogrom scenes from Fiddler On The Roof. I was expecting Cossacks to come riding out of the mist.

...and that was followed by a few miles of wallow through churned mud, and after that - with the finish on the horizon, dammit, my other knee went and I was reduced to shuffling like an old lady who needs a poo. At under 1kph (and occasionally in tears) there was no way I'd reach the end before the end of the day, so I had to call my minions and get helicoptered out.

Gutted that I DNF'd.

Happy that I did my longest run ever, and did an epic bloodyminded carryon. Kit was perfect, etc etc.

This one is not 'unfinished business'

So what went wrong? Let's start with trying to scale from 10k to marathon in ten weeks. That was optimistic. It was based, if I'm honest, on my experience with cycling where you can do that. Of course, on a bike, you don't carry your own weight, and a bike that will do ten miles will do a hundred. On a run, you do. It's more important to do close to race distance. In addition I wasn't at race-weight, so I was carrying more - but that's secondary.

I'd trained offroad up at Woodbury, but not in the weird clingy chalk mud that the Ridgeway has. That stuff was like a rink and at times my shoes clogged and I was reduced to hilarious mincing. The knees didn't like that. Rain, cold - that was fine. But wallowy mud really hit.

What's with the knees? Flexibility! The old short hamstrings mare up when extending the leg, and the grumble spreads until any torsion (like correcting foot position in mud) is quite ouchy.  With repetition, ouchy gets to "unable to bear weight" and it all goes wrong.  Descents were brutal.  That right knee's betrayed me before - time for some proper flexibility work, alas. 

Druid Challenge - a set on Flickr

After a sleep and a slow walk to the shops (to get ice packs) it's clear that the usual battered feet, toenails, ankles, shins etc are there, just hiding under the Knees of Death.  The left is just sore, the right's taken some soft tissue damage.  Ice, rest and slow increase in activity to get it healthy, then I need to chase down a physio and address the causes.

Huge respect to the Druid ultra guys, who are all weird smiley buddhists.  The toothless one who grinned fangily and told me to "march through it" in the Checkovian hills was cool; the guy who did all three days in Fivefingers was awesome.  The little Asian girl who steamed past me twice (checkpoint pit stop overlap) and the strapping tall lass with thighs like salt beef (it was cold, mumblers were the wrong shorts, Grommit) were also inspiring. ;)

Going to lie down for a bit...
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

border-rider

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #184 on: 09 November, 2009, 03:21:49 pm »
Great report Andy - sorry it didn't pan out

+1 to the claggy mud though.  Foul stuff indeed.


andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #185 on: 09 November, 2009, 04:37:26 pm »
Half of me wanted to go home.   The other half wanted to buy MudClaws.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

border-rider

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #186 on: 09 November, 2009, 04:40:46 pm »
That  would be a great run in the summer - though the mud sets like, well, clay when it dries out - or when it's freezing.  I used to run that stretch of the Ridgeway a lot when we lived near there.  Rarely in November though.

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #187 on: 09 November, 2009, 06:19:34 pm »
I wonder why?  O:-)
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

simonp

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #188 on: 09 November, 2009, 06:20:47 pm »
Reminds me of the claggy mud on the Star Trek orienteering event I did on Exmoor on the 28th Feb this year.  Lovely when you're in a hurry to make the next checkpoint on time :)

In the dark for extra falling over fun.  Not that I did though.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #189 on: 09 November, 2009, 06:57:52 pm »
Ive been thinking about getting some winter running shoes though the nearest I get to cross country is the tamsin path round richmond park. What shoes were you using, Andy? Those mudclaws look fearsome...

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #190 on: 09 November, 2009, 07:01:55 pm »
Good try Andy :thumbsup:
Also, running with your feet clogged up in clay is like running with ankle weights. The Ridgeway is notorious among local mountain bikers as a bog pit if there is any rain. That's 14 miles further than I've ever ran, and it was off road over hills too. I reckon I could do the distance fitness wise, but it's a matter of getting the legs used to the running and on even surfaces to boot. 10 weeks isn't much time for that!
Are you going to try for a marathon again?
(but maybe with more preperation time beforehand)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #191 on: 09 November, 2009, 07:31:02 pm »
good work Andy, very impressive. I hope the knees recover fairly quickly!

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #192 on: 09 November, 2009, 07:41:32 pm »
What shoes were you using, Andy? Those mudclaws look fearsome...

Helly Hansen Trailcutters: very light slipper-like shoes with nice soft grippy all-way tread, dandy for wet and dry but with no mud-shedding to speak off.  Seems mud-shedding is a special trait for extreme fell-running nutter shoes.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #193 on: 09 November, 2009, 07:56:36 pm »
Epic! Sounds like a good event. Were you trying to do all 3 stages?!?

(It's in my backyard too. Reading the itinererarary I started thinking - hey, I could shuffle 20-odd miles in 10 hours, MAYBE for 3 days. But that would require June-July day lengths ... )

GWS, don't run before you can walk etc ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #194 on: 09 November, 2009, 09:21:11 pm »
Gods no!  I don't have the ethereal, enlightened, Dalai-Lama smile that they do.  I have touched the shorts of greatness, but it's not my gig.

OTOH it did introduce me to long easy countryside runs, and those are a delight, and I'll be keeping that up (to a degree, at least).
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

simonp

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #195 on: 09 November, 2009, 10:59:39 pm »
Running certainly is different.  I can cycle 155 miles in a day (Saturday just gone, par exemple), and not be sore the next day.  Run a single solitary mile and I'm sore for 2 days.  Of course on day 3 I do it again and am not sore the next day.  It does seem to require a lot more building up, though.

I'm currently trying to get up to speed for a 1.1 mile run on the 20th.  So I have been on the treadmill once a week for 30 minutes at the gym.  Tonight I played 5-a-side.  There was a bit of trepidation that my knee was going to really complain.  Far from it - not a single twinge.  The treadmill work has helped.  I also changed my footwear - I'm wearing my running shoes instead of my Sambas.  This means less grip; initially I fell over a lot but it means when I turn, my foot doesn't stick so my knee isn't being twisted as much.  This is good.  Also have orthotics in there to prevent over-pronation, as I'm a little bit flat-footed.

It's all good and has me thinking I should get into running regularly as cross training activity N.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #196 on: 09 November, 2009, 11:08:11 pm »
I googled mudclaw - they seem to have some really nice shoes there.

I'm finding the running and swimming is certainly helping, but I can't do them for much longer than about 30 mins at the moment without getting bored (unless I get outdoors when running).

Must source some good outdoor running shoes rather than sliding around in my trainers.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

simonp

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #197 on: 09 November, 2009, 11:32:10 pm »
I didn't get bored at swimming class last week.  I got confused and knackered.   ;D

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #198 on: 10 November, 2009, 08:46:47 am »
I didn't get bored at swimming class last week.  I got confused and knackered.   ;D


I don't get confused... The swimming is coming on slowly. Feels like I might actually hit some technique soon and be able to string together a couple of lengths of proper crawl.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #199 on: 10 November, 2009, 09:34:58 am »
Also have orthotics in there to prevent over-pronation, as I'm a little bit flat-footed.

Are you flat-footed as in fallen arches? Or as in over-pronated ankle position? If the latter, it can be improved by postural therapy. Probably. Your ankles will work better in the ...err long run. The orthotics may still be sensible when running.   IANAQPhysio etc ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles