Sky - gaming the system?

[David Martin]

It sounds like Freeman is the one being hung out to dry here. Though how tenable Brailsford's position is remains to be seen.

[Hot Flatus]

Dont worry, David. It'll all blow over. It is just a conspiracy theory, after all.

[toontra]

Dont worry, David. It'll all blow over. It is just a conspiracy theory, after all.

 

I presume David no longer thinks of you as a "classic conspiracy theorist or clinic inhabitant" now he is being presented with the evidence he was keenly seeking last year.

[David Martin]

Indeed there seems to be specific evidence of an individual pushing the boudaries of the system. And evidence of much of the team aiming to uphold a high ethical standard.

I suppose the justification for BW is that if it is medicine that is approved by the doctor and a TUE then it is not a breach of the rules. And technically he may be correct. Though an improved policy on requiring 2 doctors for a TUE application.

How long before Richard Freeman is chastised by the GMC?

His CV is available online. One wonders how much was driven by him and how much by BW. It is entirely plausible that the testosterone package was sent in error. It doesn't appear to have raised any further questions.

[Hot Flatus]

Indeed there seems to be specific evidence of an individual pushing the boudaries of the system. And evidence of much of the team aiming to uphold a high ethical standard.

Much of the team?

I think you mean two of them.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

DM, that seems a quite limited interpretation of the known facts and the actions of various Sky staff.

[αdαmsκι]

It is entirely plausible that the testosterone package was sent in error. It doesn't appear to have raised any further questions.

It is plausible that the testosterone package in question was sent in error.

I wonder if there where other testosterone packages that weren't sent in error.

[David Martin]

It would seem very careless to have it sent direct to the team where people would raise questions. If you were doing something ultra vires you would not do it with a paper trail.

DM, that seems a quite limited interpretation of the known facts and the actions of various Sky staff.

It's not an overinterpretation, which many seem to prefer.

You start to bring a lot of folk into the circle of conspiracy - at least two team doctors, Steve Peters and so on. Freeman is being hung out to dry on this. Brailsford is either complicit or naive in not setting appropriate policies.

It certainly belies the image of a slick and efficient cyborg like management team.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

So far we have several people involved with this package that has the contents supposedly identified by only one person who hasn't been questioned yet. The doctor is being lined up to fall on his sword.

To date, Sky has consistently deflected, obfuscated and flat-out blocked all attempts to find the truth. It seems that more than one or two rogue Sky folk are involved. At the very least, there have been a lot of improbably naive staff in the team that have avoided being open about potential rule infringements.

[sojournermike]

Whilst all these shenanigans are regretably expected of 'professional' sport?

Is there any suggested alternative medication in 'the jiffy bag'?

Given that it was administered AFTER a race??

After one race and before another:

- Testosterone aids recovery;) or other steroid
- EPO or one of the modern versions
- L-Carnitine
- Kenacort
- Human Growth Hormone
...

This was timely!

So Sky and Wiggins are finished, which rider's next. Motor doping as well?

Funny thing is, Brailsford/Sky have been so unpleasant and arrogant over the years - spouting their corporate bol.... - that their downfall is welcome, even though it doesn't change any other team's methods. A bit like Lance and USPS.

[Hot Flatus]

It would seem very careless to have it sent direct to the team where people would raise questions. If you were doing something ultra vires you would not do it with a paper trail.

DM, that seems a quite limited interpretation of the known facts and the actions of various Sky staff.

It's not an overinterpretation, which many seem to prefer.

You start to bring a lot of folk into the circle of conspiracy - at least two team doctors, Steve Peters and so on. Freeman is being hung out to dry on this. Brailsford is either complicit or naive in not setting appropriate policies.

It certainly belies the image of a slick and efficient cyborg like management team.

BC and Team Sky shared some facilities at that point, including the 'medicine' room. It sounds as if the person who opened the testosterone package was a BC employee, who then alerted another BC employee, Peters.

With regards to Freeman's trigger happy use of the TUE system to administer PEDs, it is reported that Brailsford knew about the misgivings of the other Sky doctors but chose to ignore them.

Should we be surprised that Brailsford ignored them? Not  really.  After all, it was around the same time that he was employing notorious doping doctor, Geert Leinders.  Knowing how tiny a community is the pro cycling circuit, and also knowing that because team members, staff and riders, frequently change teams, and therefore knowledge and acquaintance, it seems unlikely that Brailsford didn't know about Leinders recent past*

But then Brailsford seems to have memory problems. When Wiggins TUE issue first popped, Brailsford said he didn't know what Kenacort was.  Now, when it is revealed that Sky had a massive stock of the stuff, Freeman says it was used on non-cyclist staff and Brailsford pops up and says he had some for a knee issue in 2008. Used on other staff???  It's Kenacort, not aspirin.

 Mind you, Brailsford isn't alone in having memory problems. despite having intramuscular shots of this stuff before major tours, Wiggins claimed never to had an injection.

It's a farce. But then I'm just a conspiracy theorist. 


*of course he knew... that's why he employed him.

[Exit Stage Left]

I have little but contempt for the media in these hero-humbling feeding-frenzies. They built up our Olympic athletes to make copy, and their hunger for copy drives these witchhunts.

I'm firmly of the 'when did we become East Germany?' persuasion. Australia was the first nation down that particular road, after the fall of the Iron Curtain. Rowing was the first British sport to expose the conjunction of TUE's and East German coaches.

For me the question comes down to how well Wiggo did within the specific context of the whole environment he was performing in. That includes lottery funding, the rise of British track cycling, the influence of Armstrong's media profile, and the hysteria surrounding the 2012 Olympics. If I was writing a script for a film about all this, I'd concentrate on Heiko Salzwedel.

[Hot Flatus]

That's a bit of a binary view. The media? You do know who the Sky in Team Sky are, don't you?  They've absolutely milked the media to build up their Sky-branded heroes.

Remember, Sky heroes aren't just any ordinary heroes.  They are clean heroes. Nobody obliged Team Sky to come out with all that shite.

The media are horrid, but for all parties involved it's a symbiotic relationship. The heroes enjoy the hagiography on the way up from the likes of Sky/News international journalist David Walsh, as well as all the other journos, now the heroes must play the other part of their role during their downfall.

[Exit Stage Left]

As professional cycling is largely about brand awareness, Sky are doing very well, with five references in your last post, not counting the thread title.

I pushed Wiggo off in a Southport evening 10, and then timed myself in 2007. That was when he was preparing for the Tour, during which he went on a breakaway to show the Cofidis colours, the team pulled out later after a drug bust.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jul/27/cycling.tourdefrance1

[citoyen]

I pushed Wiggo off in a Southport evening 10, and then timed myself in 2007. That was when he was preparing for the Tour, during which he went on a breakaway to show the Cofidis colours, the team pulled out later after a drug bust.

I remember that breakaway very well - fantastic solo effort for almost 200km, caught with less than 10km to go. Probably the first thing he did that really endeared him to me as a road rider.

I also remember the pictures of him throwing his Cofidis jersey in the bin in disgust.

It just makes the revelations about his abuse of the TUE system all the more disappointing.

You can't blame the media for Wiggins lying about not using needles. Wiggins isn't being branded a witch, he's being called out for stuff he has actually said and done.

[Exit Stage Left]

Whenever I'm in a builder's merchant I always spot the name Mapei, and no the other building chemical brands. That's because of a deliberate strategy.

Instead, with its massive, multinational roster (44 riders of ten different nationalities in 2001) they “reigned supreme over one-day races” and “gave a massive return on the 100 million-plus euros we invested over ten years, as an integral part of our corporate globalisation strategy.”

Here, perhaps, Squinzi gets to the crux of what made Mapei truly unique. Other sponsors have also owned their teams, rather than relying on a separate management company as per the current model, but maybe nowhere has that team been such an integral part of the company’s day-to-day business, culture and image.

“Castorama did something similar but only in France – we did it on a worldwide level,” says Squinzi.

“You really felt like the team was another department of the company, or a part of the marketing department,” Tegner adds. “It wasn’t just a case of sticking the company name on the jersey, they used it as a real tool. And in that respect, too, they really influenced a lot of things in cycling today. Team presentations, for example, had always been and are often still just glorified press conferences. Well, [at Mapei] they were these big show business extravaganzas…”

Mapei never won the Tour, and the story makes interesting reading. http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/mapei-the-greatest-ever-team/

My favourite Mapei rider was Franco Ballerini, a Paris Roubaix great. Did he use a Brooks in 1998?

[Hot Flatus]

As professional cycling is largely about brand awareness, Sky are doing very well, with five references in your last post, not counting the thread title.

Yes....in a post about doping and dishonesty, in a thread about doping and dishonesty.

What is it, exactly, about this brand that people are now aware?

 

[Exit Stage Left]

Just the name, as opposed to Netflix for instance.

In the minds of the public the whole brand of professional cycling is about doping and dishonesty. That distaste is diluted if our riders win, a suspension of disbelief, followed by the frisson of betrayal.

What I'd really like is a completely honest three-way discussion between Chris Boardman, Jens Voigt and Wiggo.

[Hot Flatus]

This is a PR/ Brand disaster for Sky.

There are two reasons why Sky haven't pulled the plug on cycling sponsorship. If they did, it would be tantamount to an acceptance of guilt, whereas so far their game has been entirely about smoke and mirrors and damage limitation. They also have a live asset in Froome, who they are hoping will come out of this examination of Team Sky without any shit sticking to him.

I somehow doubt there will be many Sky jerseys on display at your average sportive. Team Wiggins kit is 50-60% off on the Rapha website.

[Exit Stage Left]

I do wonder why I don't care about these doping storms.i think it's down to an interest in the historical dimension as at Mapei in the 90s.

With regard to doping, some would argue that Squinzi himself isn’t immune to a spot of historical revisionism. To brag that Mapei ruled themselves out of major tours by ruling out blood-doping, then boast about riders such as Johan Museeuw’s performances in the classics, is almost as rich as Squinzi. It’s also odd that, having decided three-week tours weren’t a happy hunting ground for riders without the right chemical artillery, he and his team were so committed to winning the 2002 Giro with Stefano Garzelli.

But then Squinzi, of course, remains of the view that his rider’s wasn’t a straightforward case of cheating – although he stops short of dredging up old conspiracy theories centering on Pantani and Garzelli’s old Mercatone Uno team. “I still think someone stitched us up there,” is all Squinzi will say. “There were a lot of strange things, like the fact we heard Stefano was positive even before they’d tested the sample.”

Crespi defended Garzelli at the time but, curiously, nine years later, has a slightly different take on what proved for Squinzi to be the last straw. “I don’t know, I honestly don’t,” he says, before pausing. “Thinking about it now, I just would have expected a more lively reaction from the rider. Okay, when some people take a hit, they can go a little bit numb, but he seemed cold…”

Whatever really went on, Squinzi has no cause to regret his decision. Mapei’s profits have suffered in the worldwide economic crisis that crippled the building industry but the company retains clear global leadership in the chemical adhesive industry, with a turnover of well in excess of a billion euros.

Disillusion with the reality of professional sport is understandable, especially when you've been led to believe it's now 'clean'. But long-term fans often don't see it in those terms.

[Hot Flatus]

Brand growth doesn't come from long term fans

[Exit Stage Left]

I don't think that brand awareness is aimed at the cognoscenti, it's a by-product of success. I don't have the slightest desire to subscribe to Sky, and I've never bought a Mapei product.
I do know that Barloworld are a company selling materials handling products, based in South Africa. So if I suddenly need to handle materials in South Africa, I'll know who to call.

[Phil W]

Team Wiggins kit is 50-60% off on the Rapha website.

Can't you get Wiggins kit for free with each NHS prescription?

[mattc]

Brand growth doesn't come from long term fans

I read that as "beard growth":  What has Wiggo been upto now

[αdαmsκι]

Mutiny is drawing closer: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exclusive-team-sky-riders-consider-asking-brailsford-to-resign/