Author Topic: Sky - gaming the system?  (Read 188079 times)

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #825 on: 15 June, 2017, 04:45:08 pm »
The attitudes are deeply ingrained. Not sure if you followed the link into the leaked report, but the obvious conclusion was that the board very significantly doctored the original to avoid the damning. Inclusions becoming known.

I'm glad the parliamentary committee looks like being robust in its conclusions.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #826 on: 15 June, 2017, 06:00:12 pm »
Yeah, I've been following the links on this, and agree this has been systemic for years at BC.

I hope the parliamentary committee are able to effect real change there.  One problem is how UCI, BC, Sky and funding are all interlinked. 

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #827 on: 15 June, 2017, 07:36:43 pm »
Went round to watch the Dauphiné last week at a mates house. Halfway through one of his mates turned up...a former professional cyclist who had ridden through the ranks in the 90s and turned pro at the end of the decade.  He'd ridden on teams with Wiggins, Millar to name but two.

He'd also had dealings with Shane Sutton. He described him as a thick, racist, sexist bully bighead. Also said that Sutton was a notorious doper, and knew people who had ridden with Sutton and had to talk him down off the ceiling at midnight after races because he was still high from all the drugs hed used.

Just as well Brailsford never found out....what with Sky's really stringent anti-doping culture and ZTP of anybody with a doping history  ::-)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #828 on: 15 June, 2017, 08:20:32 pm »
Sutton and pot belge was never considered a good mix.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #829 on: 02 July, 2017, 11:49:07 am »
If sky were a govt funded organisation, would they be allowed to seek external sponsorship, leading to their massive amounts of cash and potential to buy the success they currently have?  As BC could not create a road team without the cash and exposure to continental racing, seems the sky model is in no way outrageous.

Recently reading the Nicole Cooke autobiography.  Interesting POV on what was going on and the positives (and downsides) of the BC->Sky transition.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #830 on: 02 July, 2017, 11:55:24 am »
Oh whoops...

http://www.straitstimes.com/sport/fresh-doping-claims-cast-cloud-over-team-sky

Incredible weight loss by Froome and Wiggins, and the ordering of huge and unaccounted for quantities of Cortisone coincides with employment of a doctor who's expertise in his previous team was using cortisone for weight loss.

Umm...errr....

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #831 on: 02 July, 2017, 01:22:50 pm »
Oh whoops...

http://www.straitstimes.com/sport/fresh-doping-claims-cast-cloud-over-team-sky

Incredible weight loss by Froome and Wiggins, and the ordering of huge and unaccounted for quantities of Cortisone coincides with employment of a doctor who's expertise in his previous team was using cortisone for weight loss.

Umm...errr....w

This could be very interesting if it wasn't obliterated on my phone by advertising for investments un Singapore. Oh well shouldn't believe everything you can('t) read on the internet.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #832 on: 02 July, 2017, 01:48:29 pm »
Oh whoops...

http://www.straitstimes.com/sport/fresh-doping-claims-cast-cloud-over-team-sky

Incredible weight loss by Froome and Wiggins, and the ordering of huge and unaccounted for quantities of Cortisone coincides with employment of a doctor who's expertise in his previous team was using cortisone for weight loss.

Umm...errr....w

This could be very interesting if it wasn't obliterated on my phone by advertising for investments un Singapore. Oh well shouldn't believe everything you can('t) read on the internet.

Here you go...

Team Sky faced fresh embarrassment from their employment of Geert Leinders after more revelations about the doctor's doping practices surfaced yesterday, as this year's Tour de France began.

In The Descent, serialised in The Times Magazine, Thomas Dekker, the former Rabobank rider who has served a two-year ban for doping, sets out the scale of drug-taking in the Dutch cycling team.

He noted the active involvement of Leinders, who went on to become Team Sky's medical consultant between 2010 and 2012.

Leinders is said to have knowingly administered a banned drug to stimulate cortisone production and advised using a saline drip to cover up a high level of red blood cells caused by abuse of erythropoietin (EPO). Dekker also talks of the team falsifying medical conditions to allow riders to take cortisone to lose weight, calling the system of therapeutic use exemptions "a sham".

Leinders, banned for life in 2015 by the United States Anti-Doping Agency, was employed for 80 days a year by Team Sky, who insisted that they did background checks.

The team's general manager Dave Brailsford was forced to subsequently admit the mistake, while insisting that Leinders did nothing untoward with the British team.

And their retired rider Bradley Wiggins has claimed that Leinders had nothing to do with his controversial injections of a corticosteroid before grand Tours in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

THE TIMES, LONDON

Funny that.




Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #833 on: 20 October, 2017, 01:08:16 am »

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #834 on: 20 October, 2017, 08:40:43 am »
And Dr Freeman resigns, so he doesn't have to face the music.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/19/british-cycling-doctor-jiffy-bag-scandal-richard-freeman

You would have to be a pretty staunch Sky supporter to think this is above board.  Any doubt was cleared for me the day he failed to turn up to the MP's enquiry because he'd given himself a doctor's note.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #835 on: 20 October, 2017, 09:14:42 am »
It all absolutely stinks. The cognitive dissonance of those who write it all off as above board is astounding.

Seriously, a box of testosterone patches delivered "by mistake". Really? Wonder what it was mistaken for in the suppliers warehouse...a box of tissues?

We have had literally a string of lies that has been exposed one by one:

Wiggins lie about never receiving injections
Brailsford's lie about intended recipient and destination of package
Brailsford's lie about doctor not administering content of package at race

Why should we believe the reasons given that are as yet unprovable because Sky have not kept records:
that the package contained Fluimucil
that the delivery of Testosterone was a 'mistake'


This is about doping. Seriously, this is THE one contentious issue that can bring a team down, so I absolutely dont believe that this string of errors, oversights, omissions, mistakes were such. I dont believe a team that trumpets its fastidiousness and attention to detail would make a string of errors over the most contentious issue in the sport.

Whiter than white?

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #836 on: 20 October, 2017, 12:34:57 pm »

Seriously, a box of testosterone patches delivered "by mistake".

That's the really difficult part, we're talking about something covered by Misuse of Drugs Act / Regulations, control mechanisms are stringent.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #837 on: 20 October, 2017, 02:53:52 pm »

Seriously, a box of testosterone patches delivered "by mistake".

That's the really difficult part, we're talking about something covered by Misuse of Drugs Act / Regulations, control mechanisms are stringent.


Not that difficult - the chance of that error is so close to zero as to be instantly dismissible - therefore, the very strong likelihood is that an order was placed.

Testosterone doesn't even share sufficient common letters with kenacort for auto complete to catch you out - although I suppose you might order a large quantity of triamcinolone as that begins with a T. But then, that's also controlled so no cycling team would seek to obtain industrial quantities of that either;)

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #838 on: 20 October, 2017, 03:03:56 pm »
If you keep no records it doesn't matter what you order....

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #839 on: 20 October, 2017, 06:27:35 pm »
If you keep no records it doesn't matter what you order....


No paper trail at the recipient end, perhaps time to look at the supplier end. Do they order in RPC like Jeannie Longo's husband used to? (Of course we all know about Chinese goods declarations and how to avoid import duty).

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #840 on: 25 October, 2017, 09:22:05 am »

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #841 on: 15 November, 2017, 11:19:59 am »
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/41996027

Move along now folks, nothing to see here...

There will be no charges over a 'mystery' medical package delivered to Sir Bradley Wiggins at the Criterium du Dauphine in 2011, says UK Anti-Doping.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #842 on: 15 November, 2017, 12:00:32 pm »
"A  statement on the organisation's website said: "Put simply, due to the lack of contemporaneous evidence, UKAD has been unable to definitively confirm the contents of the package.

"The significant likelihood is that it is now impossible to do so."

Ukad chief executive Nicole Sapstead added: "Our investigation was hampered by a lack of accurate medical records being available at British Cycling. This is a serious concern."





citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #843 on: 15 November, 2017, 12:13:40 pm »
In the same way as a missed test carries the same sanctions as a failed test, lost medical records should carry the same penalty as dodgy medical records.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #844 on: 15 November, 2017, 12:59:08 pm »
Looks like Sky and Wiggins have got away with it. This should really be in the Bad News thread.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #845 on: 15 November, 2017, 02:26:40 pm »
Does any of this sound like the actions of an ethical team?

Claiming that package was for Pooley

Then, once this claim had been proven false, claiming that Wiggins had left race before doctor arrived with package.

Then, once this claim had been proven false, claiming that the package contained a decongestant.

Then, when challenged about why a team GB staff member would be sent on a 600 mile journey to deliver a medicine that could have been purchased over the counter in a local pharmacy, said it was normal.


Then when it transpires that Sky/BC had ordered in huge numbers of doses of a known PED, Triamcinolone, but couldn't account for its administration, claimed that all medical records pertaining to administration of substance were on Freeman's laptop, which, surprise surprise, had been stolen.

Then, it transpires, a consignment of Testosterone had been delivered to Sky/BC "accidentally".

Then Freeman refused to appear in front of DCMS.

And all this after the Fancy Bears leak revealed that Wiggins had been injected with steroids prior to major wins, having previously denied ever having received any injections.



Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #846 on: 15 November, 2017, 02:53:17 pm »
They have lost all credibility with me and many others I'm thinking, it's getting as bad as politics ☠️☠️☠️

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #847 on: 15 November, 2017, 03:04:06 pm »
Its embarrassing.

Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #848 on: 15 November, 2017, 03:49:47 pm »
Add in to Flatus's list:

Sky made dishonest TUE applications.

Brailsford tried to kill the jiffy bag story.

Brailsford and Wiggins both conducted very unconvincing interviews with the BBC.

Sky and British Cycling representatives all put on very unconvincing (and in some cases seemingly guilt-ridden) performances in front of the select committee.

Sky, and possibly BC, obstructed the UKAD investigation.

Any one of all those faults, just on its own, from that very long list, is cause for serious doubt about Sky's ethics at that time.  Add them all together and the only sensible conclusion, regardless of UKAD's inability to prove guilt re the jiffy bag, is that at the very least Sky thought it could get away with a way to scam the TUE system such that certain riders including Wiggins could be pumped with Triamcinolone in significant doses whenever required to enhance performance.  There is no reasonable explanation of the evidence other than Wiggins cheated his way to certain victories/results with performance-enhancing drugs.......and it would seem likely that he was not unique at Sky in this.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Sky - gaming the system?
« Reply #849 on: 15 November, 2017, 04:16:22 pm »
Have we all seen Wiggo's statement? Laughable.

I'm not going to copy it here. You can guess exactly what it says - you've heard it all before...
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."