Author Topic: AUK AGM  (Read 14946 times)

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #25 on: 22 January, 2018, 02:46:42 pm »
Quote
So if I decide to cap at 100 entrants, that is 100 cards, which I believe is 100 quid (perm cards are a quid each... is it the same for events cards?).

This is curious, I print my own cards for RUSA events, don't AUK allow that? More often though, for perms, I send an email attachment to the rider; cost zero.

This is not quite correct.  For Permanent Events then the brevets must be purchased in advance, even for validation-by-GPS entries, and the validation fee is baked into the brevet fee and is paid up-front

For Calendar Events, the brevets can be bought pre-printed, blank, or (by arrangement, I think) alternative brevets can be sourced at own cost (e.g. LEL); however, validation fees are paid against only those riders who complete the event successfully, and that is charged separately from the brevet fee.  Calendar-event payments are all settled after the event.  Typically, card orders go in two weeks before the event, so organisers of events with open-ended entries must over-order, and to this end I do have a pile of blanks in the drawer, in case I need to print up some more — they don't go out of date and will get used at some point.

Also, I wonder why AUK insists on sitting on so much money; a lack of fiduciary responsibility comes to mind. Can the membership force a disbursement?

As I pointed out up-thread, the £300k was never a specific aim, more an outcome of not having anything worthwhile to spend it on.  The Board has asked at a number of previous AGMs what the membership would like them to do with it, but not much has ever come of it.  Forcing a disbursement is probably not a brilliant plan, as it has no specific benefit to the membership; it might* also be questionable under UK law, given the type of company AUK operates as.


* I have no idea whether it would or not, it's just that certain company types can do certain things with cash-in-the-bank, and giving it back to the membership might not be one of them.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #26 on: 22 January, 2018, 04:18:04 pm »
* I have no idea whether it would or not, it's just that certain company types can do certain things with cash-in-the-bank, and giving it back to the membership might not be one of them.

You are  correct ..  AUK as a company limited by guarantee can not disperse a surplus to members.

BUT what it could do .. is stop piling up more and more money by taking an excess every year from its members.. when it has appeared for about 5 or 6 years to have no idea what to do with the cash pile.

So choices are things like reduce income or increase costs .. aiming to run a loss for several years so as to take the cash pile back to say £200,000 .. surely more than enough in hand for what in reality although a trading company, actually has no risk areas at all.

So reduce income .. ...  charge less for brevet cards , reduce validation fees , reduce the price for Arrivee for a year or two, provide existing members  with a free membership year .. 1 year free for annual members , 1 extra year for 5 year members.
plenty of ways to  reduce income.......  but actually benefiting members or riders

Or increase expenditure .. and here I would provide far more support for organisers than currently exists .. but even my suggestion up thread of a £20,000 thank you pot .. only reduces the recent annual surpluses and does not eliminate them .. so the cash pile would still increase.

The reality is that AUK is very successful ( for which we are all immensely grateful ) .. but it needs to accept that because it is so successful .. there is no reason for the charges made to its members, either directly or thru a charge to an organiser, to remain at the current levels.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #27 on: 22 January, 2018, 05:15:11 pm »
Are there really any members who think they are getting poor value for money for their annual subs?

AUK already subsidises validation costs, and has a system set up for printing cards that costs calendar event organisers less than one third the cost of producing something of similar quality commercially (not at all the same number as for perm cards which as jsabine points out are costed differently).   Arrivee is free to members anyway.

But, on the other side of the coin, costs are rising, with fewer volunteers around, there are more professional services to be paid for, some of which are difficult to predict. It's not difficult to imagine a set of circumstances where the surplus could be eaten up in a very small number of years, but that is perhaps more properly a subject for discussion in the member's forum.

 

whosatthewheel

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #28 on: 22 January, 2018, 05:49:45 pm »
My rant is simply due to the poor return in leaving money in the bank... if we were in 2005 I wouldn't object... at the time a saving account was easily yielding 4-5%. Right now AUK is burning 10k per year which is a lot of money. Investment is badly needed, even if was in the form of a property to use as HQ

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #29 on: 22 January, 2018, 05:59:23 pm »
Also, I wonder why AUK insists on sitting on so much money; a lack of fiduciary responsibility comes to mind. Can the membership force a disbursement?

Didn't someone mention on here that it is being spent?  There's something in the AGM booklet about a new website currently under development and it won't be cheap.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #30 on: 22 January, 2018, 06:14:19 pm »
My rant is simply due to the poor return in leaving money in the bank... if we were in 2005 I wouldn't object... at the time a saving account was easily yielding 4-5%. Right now AUK is burning 10k per year which is a lot of money. Investment is badly needed, even if was in the form of a property to use as HQ

Yebbut, when people are rebutting your argument with facts and business acumen, are you still ranting, or have you accepted that the reason we're in this position is just what it is and per se there's nothing wrong with it?

If you really must think of that £10k as something then think of it as an annual business continuity insurance premium and be content.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #31 on: 22 January, 2018, 06:30:13 pm »
The trading for the twelve months shows total Revenue of £141,646 (2016: £125,285) with direct expenditure of £84,798
(2016: £89,110), overheads of £30,955 (2016: £16,508) showing a net surplus for the period of £25,893 (2016: £19,667).

I should declare an interest as a (small scale) organiser of one 100k event each year.  The above figures suggest an annual operating surplus of about 20%, if my maths is correct.  With an upwards trend.  However from other posts it seems like there is going to be some investment in the website to promote audax.

Seems sensible to me - one other thing that I noticed was a 26% increase in perms and DIYs, maybe helped by the easy to use on-line system and virtual brevets.  So more promotion of calendar events to further increase participation?

Sunshine approaching from the South.

First time in 1,000 years.

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #32 on: 22 January, 2018, 10:14:12 pm »
Right now AUK is burning 10k per year

No!

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #33 on: 26 January, 2018, 05:14:58 pm »
So, is anyone planning to pop in to room 101 in Birmingham?

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #34 on: 26 January, 2018, 07:03:15 pm »
As it is a short journey away, rude not to pop along and say hello.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #35 on: 26 January, 2018, 07:16:29 pm »
My rant is simply due to the poor return in leaving money in the bank... if we were in 2005 I wouldn't object... at the time a saving account was easily yielding 4-5%. Right now AUK is burning 10k per year which is a lot of money. Investment is badly needed, even if was in the form of a property to use as HQ

Yebbut, when people are rebutting your argument with facts and business acumen, are you still ranting, or have you accepted that the reason we're in this position is just what it is and per se there's nothing wrong with it?

If you really must think of that £10k as something then think of it as an annual business continuity insurance premium and be content.

FWIW, if holding 150k in the bank was deemed acceptable then AUK is only 'burning' £5k p.a. 

Personally I'd put it all in Premium bonds, the only problem being... what if we won the jackpot? We'd be in real trouble then!

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #36 on: 26 January, 2018, 07:46:12 pm »
Notwithstanding the investment limit on Premium Bonds, a better investment might be going to the casino.  But I assume adding greatly to the sum we have is not the desired outcome.
The AGM should provide some indication of what plans the Board have (which has already been mentioned) to use the funds and if we are not happy then we can change the Board via the ballot. Revolution!
(Although I am content for the Board to manage the situation.)

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #37 on: 26 January, 2018, 09:35:43 pm »
Personally I'd put it all in Premium bonds, the only problem being... what if we won the jackpot? We'd be in real trouble then!

I think there is still a vacancy for the FD post.  I'd enjoy reading your manifesto. 

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #38 on: 27 January, 2018, 10:44:34 am »
Notwithstanding the investment limit on Premium Bonds...

£50k per person. AUK is listed as having 29 employees (everyone read the AGM report right?) so they're just £50k short of being able to invest the entire £1.5m. (Minus the total of any existing premium bonds held by those employees obviously.)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #39 on: 27 January, 2018, 11:03:59 am »
Notwithstanding the investment limit on Premium Bonds...

£50k per person. AUK is listed as having 29 employees (everyone read the AGM report right?) so they're just £50k short of being able to invest the entire £1.5m. (Minus the total of any existing premium bonds held by those employees obviously.)

Are you suggesting AUK funds are given to an individual to invest? Oooooh, not sure about that!

Anyway, I get the humour behind the original post. I will wait to see what AUK Board wish to say about funds at AGM.

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #40 on: 27 January, 2018, 11:28:54 am »
It wasn't entirely serious, like the original suggestion.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #41 on: 06 February, 2018, 08:00:56 pm »
on line voting does not cover all options .. and is I think currently in error.

I have no problem with knowing that i want to support certain resolutions/candidates .. but on some resolutions I wish to abstain and this option is not available to me.. as if i nominate the Chair as my proxy I appear unable to instruct him to abstain on resolutions that I have no opinion on.

any views from  those better informed than myself
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #42 on: 06 February, 2018, 09:12:39 pm »
I think you're right, and that the only option for abstaining without going to Birmingham yourself is to nominate another person as your proxy, and trust them to vote as directed. You could, I suppose, give the chair a discretionary proxy and, separately, ask him to abstain where appropriate, but I don't think you can ask for discretion/direction on a motion by motion basis.

(I'll be there, and am happy to act as an abstention-honouring proxy if that would be helpful.)

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #43 on: 06 February, 2018, 09:56:57 pm »
I hardly think that my presence  and then an abstention could in anyway affect an outcome .. in fact logically it can not .. but I am uncomfortable with the fact that a nominated proxy can not be instructed to abstain.. when that is the proxy givers wish.

Might the Board take this point on .. for a  conversation in due course
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #44 on: 07 February, 2018, 12:19:30 am »
I don't think much of a conversation is needed - I think we've got it wrong this year, and don't know why abstention wasn't available. (I suspect it might simply be the default options we got from ERS, but we could - should - have changed that.)

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #45 on: 07 February, 2018, 12:20:14 am »
My rant is simply due to the poor return in leaving money in the bank... if we were in 2005 I wouldn't object... at the time a saving account was easily yielding 4-5%. Right now AUK is burning 10k per year which is a lot of money. Investment is badly needed, even if was in the form of a property to use as HQ

My savings - invested - made 7.5% in the last 12 months, and that includes the last two days' bloodbath. Holding funds does not imply a loss because of bank rates. And this is irrelevant to the topic, as is your objection. There are other ways of investing money, and other ways of providing value to members. I have no complaints.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #46 on: 08 February, 2018, 11:13:24 am »
I cast my votes last night.
The website hung the first time and I had to go back and resubmit.
Presumably it was overloaded.

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #47 on: 08 February, 2018, 01:37:55 pm »
I cast my votes last night.
The website hung the first time and I had to go back and resubmit.
Presumably it was overloaded.

That would be all the full value riders getting in just before the cut-off.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #48 on: 08 February, 2018, 02:07:30 pm »
I cast my votes last night.
The website hung the first time and I had to go back and resubmit.
Presumably it was overloaded.

That would be all the full value riders getting in just before the cut-off.

 ;) ;D

28 hours in hand is a LONG time before cut-off...
... for a full-value rider!

Re: AUK AGM
« Reply #49 on: 08 February, 2018, 02:47:11 pm »
I'll take that as a cue to post an explicit reminder (ooh-err) - the cutoff for voting and appointing proxies is 23:59 tonight, Thursday 8th Feb.

(GMT, in case any pedants want to get arsey.)