New bike advice please - drops, guards and rack lugs, women's geometry, etc

[hatler]

All,

I’m after the panel’s knowledge once again.

Following last week’s FNRttC one of my colleagues is smitten (stupid ?) enough to want a new bike.

She’s cycled a fair bit previously so isn’t a newbie.

Rough requirements are : -
•   Drops
•   Cross top levers
•   Mudguard and rack lugs
•   Women’s geometry
•   Something a bit livelier than a straight touring bike (eg not a Dawes Galaxy)
•   Ideally not disc brakes

Is there anything off the shelf that ticks those boxes ?   I’m a long way out of the loop when it comes to what’s available now.

Many thanks as ever.

[Karla]

Drops, braze-ons, and 'a bit livelier than a Galaxy' will be any of the current range of bikepacking/gravel bikes: Kinesis, Sonder, Mason, Open-Up or a dozen other models. 

"Women's geometry" is a bit of a red herring: it usually seems to mean a shorter and taller front end, with narrower bars if you're lucky and shorter cranks if you're really really lucky.  Oh and a different saddle, but does anyone male or female ever ride the saddle they buy with the bike?  Fortunately, the bikes I mentioned above are all a bit shorter and taller than their pure road equivalents and it can mostly be sorted with component swaps anyway, so buy from an LBS and get them to swap the bars for you. 

Crosstop levers: not a standard option but get the LBS to put them on while they're swapping the bars.

Disc brakes: aah, here's the rub.  All the bikes I mentioned above will come with disc brakes.  If she can put up with those, her choice is expanded several times over.

[Tim Hall]

Presumably the cross top levers are to help with the brake reach issues she had.

[fuaran]

The new Shimano GRX groupset has the option of crosstop levers, with hydraulic discs. And supposed to allow easier braking from the hoods.
Not sure if any bikes available with it yet.

[hatler]

Presumably the cross top levers are to help with the brake reach issues she had.

More that she has a hankering for something akin to suicide levers, but yes, reach related.

[bludger]

Decathlon have released a new range of bikes that may fit the bill:

Either in £1099 105 flavour with a carbon frame or £700 with Tiagra and an alloy frame

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-cf-womens-carbon-road-bike-black-105-id_8544647.html

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ultra-af-womens-road-bike-tiagra-id_8544603.html

Cross top levers could be done aftermarket. I think they look like pretty decent bikes. I don't know what the deal is with luggage racks though.

If they don't work out, Decathlon have a 365 days return policy.

[grams]

I think she's going to have a hard time finding anything sold new that's racey, has clearance for proper mudguards and doesn't have disc brakes.

If she drops the no discs requirement she'll find a lot more options to choose from (especially "gravel"/"adventure" type things that Karla mentions). The complication then is cross tops, which are easy to retrofit to cable discs (but cable discs are shite on drop bars). Either the GRX cross top hydraulic levers or cable levers plus HY/RDs.

If she's desperate to avoid disc brakes, getting an older frame - maybe a cantilever brake CX frame - and building it up would probably be the way to go.

[Frank9755]

My wife wanted similar a few years ago and ended up getting something from Evans' own-label range - a Pinnacle Dolomite.  She likes it. 

The brake levers are something the bike shop can easily add (I got Spa to put some on my Super Galaxy when I bought it in 2009 - and have hardly ever used them in 10 years!).  And AIUI women's-specific geometry doesn't mean anything other than a shorter stem.

[hatler]

Thanks all for your input. Greatly appreciated.

I did do a bit of digging into the women's geometry thing and Spesh (Dolce, Ruby), Trek (WSD) and at least a couple of others do shorten the top tube a smidge. The only concession to women in the Bianchi Dama Bianca range is however, 'pretty' colours.

I'll let you know where she ends up.

[quixoticgeek]

Thanks all for your input. Greatly appreciated.

I did do a bit of digging into the women's geometry thing and Spesh (Dolce, Ruby), Trek (WSD) and at least a couple of others do shorten the top tube a smidge. The only concession to women in the Bianchi Dama Bianca range is however, 'pretty' colours.

The "Shrink it and pink it" approach...

One of the main things that a womens specific geometry will do is go smaller. A mens/unisex S or XS frame is often still too big for many women. Canyon are good about this, some of their Women's specific frames go down to XXS, and in the 2 smallest sizes, switch to 650b wheels to avoid toe overlap. The there is some fiddling with the ratio of the stack:reach. But in this day of compact frame geometry big seat posts, and different length stems, it's less important than just the overall size when it comes to fitting a bike to a woman. A well thought out women's specific bike will also offer narrower bars in the smaller sizes. In an ideal world, they would also offer a more suitable range of gears too...

I ride a size S frame, and have an 80mm stem on short reach handlebars. I'm 50mm taller than average height for a British woman, and average height for a Dutch woman. I use a 400mm handlebar width. I have a 38/28 and 11-40 gears. On 170 cranks.

J

[trekker12]

The Genesis Datum uses exactly the same frame for Women and Men, the women's bike comes with a female specific saddle and narrower handlebars but that's it, the 2017 version I bought for Mrs Trekker doesn't even have any pink on it, it's a lovely shade of purple, it is a perfect fit for me too! The XS frame is certainly XS, it doesn't go as far as 650 wheels so it might rule out particularly short but we are both 5'4 and there's still loads of adjustment left.

The point being it's not necessary as said above with frames getting ever smaller and lots of adjustment in the seatpost/stem/bars etc.

[quixoticgeek]

The Genesis Datum uses exactly the same frame for Women and Men, the women's bike comes with a female specific saddle and narrower handlebars but that's it, the 2017 version I bought for Mrs Trekker doesn't even have any pink on it, it's a lovely shade of purple, it is a perfect fit for me too! The XS frame is certainly XS, it doesn't go as far as 650 wheels so it might rule out particularly short but we are both 5'4 and there's still loads of adjustment left.

The point being it's not necessary as said above with frames getting ever smaller and lots of adjustment in the seatpost/stem/bars etc.

If you take the saddle out of the equation, and thus the differences in the pelvis, what it really comes down to is "bike for person with short legs and long torso" or "bike for person with long legs and short torso". Then factor in that while women are predominantly shorter than men, there are many men who would appreciate the availability of smaller bikes. Bikes don't have to be gendered, but they are by the fact that bikes tend to be designed with larger, stronger people in mind. When a bike is available in S, M, L, XL, XXL, but not in XS or XXS, it's ignoring a lot of the left side of the bell curve. It just happens that most of the people in that area of the bell curve are women...

J

[Kim]

The problem with the left side of the bell curve is you have to start altering things like wheels and cranks, rather than just making the tubes a bit longer like you can on the right.  And this is the cycle industry we're talking about:  They think 165mm is a short crank, and only children need 24" wheels (so there's no point making proper tyres for them).  If you're much shorter than an average British woman, you tend to end up with a choice of bikes that simply don't fit properly, children's bikes or abandoning the diamond-frame geometry altogether.  (And while a decent 20" folder is likely to be more pleasant than a DF that doesn't fit, it's hardly ideal if your needs involve longer, faster rides.)

[Brucey]

Spa Cycles audax might fit the bill for the OP.  Frame geometry in smaller sizes is quite well thought out, and there is also a Ti version. They'll build it how you want it to be built.

cheers

[rr]

Sounds like an Islabikes Lauth to me.
Just checked, they are on discs now, but otherwise fit the bill.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[vorsprung]

A couple of my friends have these, seem like nice bikes https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/audax-special/

[Adam]

Why not disc?

I urge a serious reconsideration on that aspect.

[Brucey]

Why not disc?

I urge a serious reconsideration on that aspect.

Why not cantis? Why not a coaster brake? Why not drum brakes?   Probably they would like a different colour bike to you too; should they think again on that?  Should they think again on other aspects of their wish-list that don't align to your ideas too....?....

cheers

[Kim]

Why not disc?

I urge a serious reconsideration on that aspect.

Why not cantis? Why not a coaster brake? Why not drum brakes?   Probably they would like a different colour bike to you too; should they think again on that?  Should they think again on other aspects of their wish-list that don't align to your ideas too....?....

I dunno, "why not discs?" seems like a reasonable question, given the range of otherwise-acceptible bikes so equipped.  The answer could be something like "because they're harder to maintain" which would seem like something that could perhaps be compromised on, or like "for compatibility with my existing wheels", which isn't.  Also note that the OP says "ideally not disc brakes", rather than ruling them out completely.

I certainly think it's a more reasonable question than "why drop bars?", which is the one that goes through my mind whenever discussion turns to trying to make drop bar controls work properly for people with short reach or small hands. (Which I've been very carefully not asking.)

[hatler]

The 'ideally not discs' thing was based on complexity and expense. But if that's all that's available it's a moot point.

[Kim]

The 'ideally not discs' thing was based on complexity and expense. But if that's all that's available it's a moot point.

Indeed.  I don't think cable discs add much in the way of complexity (hydraulics and hybrid systems, sure).  Expense mostly comes down to what you can buy off the shelf...

[fuaran]

If expense is an issue, what's the budget? Otherwise you will probably get recommendations for £2000+ bikes.

One advantage of hydraulic brakes is less force needed from the hands. So could be good for people with smaller, less strong hands.

[hatler]

Certainly sub £1000.

The ally GT Grade looks to be about as close as it's possible to get. That or the Triban from Decathlon.

[Brucey]

spa cycles audax meets the OP's wish list (I think) and comes in at £990 presently

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3202/SPA-CYCLES-Steel-Audax-%28Shimano-105-Double%29

also available with a triple chainset for the same money.

Sizes down to 50cm (with steel fork) and 52cm (with carbon fork).  The smallest size uses a different fork offset, not readily available in carbon, hence the steel fork in this size.

They'll vary saddle, bars, fit crosstops etc as required.

cheers

[fuaran]

Decathlon now have a women's version of the Triban RC520, looks like rather good value. Semi-hydro discs, and space for wider tyres, with mudguards and a rack. With narrower bars and shorter cranks etc. £730
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/rc520-womens-disc-road-bike-105-id_8575809.html