Cost of entering a TT in E&W

[David Martin]

Being north of the border, all out TTs are BC events so we have to pay standard regional C race levies (3.80 per rider) and all riders wanting to take part must have BC membership or buy a day license (£10). So for a novice to 'come and try it' you are looking at an entry fee of £15 or so.

What are the costs as a CTT event? ie assuming a non-club member who wants to ride an open event, what membership day license fees must be paid and what are the levies the organiser must pay per rider for event insurance?

It seems ridiculous that the cost for a TT is the same as a road race.

[mattc]

I THINK that to ride an "Open"* event you need to be in a CTT-affiliated club.

Most novices will start at "club" events (technically "Type-B" in CTT-speak?) - typical entry is £3, or £4 for non-CTT-affiliated riders (i.e. most total novices!)

(It went up a pound a year-or-so ago, which I thought was daft, but a different argument ... )

*From the way you worded your post, you may not realise that "Open" events are actually the bigger/more-expensive/"glamorous" type. [and you need to ride them to get a time for various purposes]

[Karla]

I THINK that to ride an "Open"* event you need to be in a CTT-affiliated club.

Most novices will start at "club" events (technically "Type-B" in CTT-speak?) - typical entry is £3, or £4 for non-CTT-affiliated riders (i.e. most total novices!)

(It went up a pound a year-or-so ago, which I thought was daft, but a different argument ... )

*From the way you worded your post, you may not realise that "Open" events are actually the bigger/more-expensive/"glamorous" type. [and you need to ride them to get a time for various purposes]

Matt is correct.  A club event will typically charge £3, you may need to be a club member to race or you may be allowed to race for your first few times on a 'come and try it' basis.  A regular rider from another club may also be allowed to participate, it all depends on the individual club rules. 

An 'open' event requires all entrants to be a member of a CTT affiliated club.  The entry fee is typically £8, or £15 for something bigger like a national championship.

[mattc]

So:

It seems ridiculous that the cost for a TT is the same as a road race.

Yes, it certainly is ridiculous!

Gotta love BC ...

[David Martin]

Well, the problem is that it has to be open to more than the club so it cannot be a confined event. Which means levies. Which also means that BC membership is mandatory (or day membership) even though the riders are already members of BC affiliated clubs and may have alternative 3rd party insurance (through eg Tri UK).

£15 for a roadside strip TT is rather pricey, especially as it is only 3 miles long (the actual fee is £5 plus a day license)

[mattc]

Can you run it under CTT ? 

(You say levies ... well the only (good) reason to run a social/club/low-profile TT under anybody's authroity is insurance. Does your club have other insurance that would cover a club TT? Just a - somewhat optimistic - thought ...

CTC covers riders whilst TTing, IIRC, but not club officials.)

[David Martin]

The issue is that it is a centre championship, so we cannot run it as a club confined event. I have a feeling it will be a dismal turnout and a financial loss. I was wondering what the levy per rider is that the organiser has to pay to CTT, not the overall entry fee. I can't run an on-road event as anything other than regional C or higher - it is stupid having to do a TT under RR categorisation.

[Karla]

You don't have to confine club TTs to members of your club.  We did for a while when ours were getting to popular for their own good, but have relaxed that now.  I think the issue with open TTs is that you have to list your entry form, start sheet and results centrally, so anyone can enter just by going to the CTT website.  It's a national event, whereas a club event is a local event, which may or may not be open to riders outside of that club.

[David Martin]

Mr B, we can't run them under CTT as we are north of the border. We have to run them under BC rules. As most of the things BC are interested in TT wise are not club TTs there is no interest in having rules which will only really affect Scotland. I'll have to check the various rule books again. (We have to wear plastic hats in TT's as well)

[Karla]

Ah, I geddit.  How annoying.

[mattc]

The CTT levy is either £2 or £2.50.
(Plus an extra £1 for non-CTT members.)

Possibly more for "Open"s - but most of your £8+ goes on hall hire etc etc (the "glamour").


If it was double/treble this, it might kill off club TTs.

[David Martin]

So the additional 'day rate' for memebrship is £1. We pay standard BC rates (£3.80) plus non-members pay £10 for a day license. Bit excessive IYAM. The only way we can get a 'come and try it'  at a sensible rate is to be strictly club confined.

[mattc]

So the additional 'day rate' for memebrship is £1. We pay standard BC rates (£3.80) plus non-members pay £10 for a day license. Bit excessive IYAM. The only way we can get a 'come and try it'  at a sensible rate is to be strictly club confined.

In that case ... how about a £1 day rate for belonging to YOUR club? Would that get round all the small print? [or even free, for 1st timers]

[David Martin]

No. They have to have BC silver membership to take part in a TT that isn't club confined. Club confined is first claim members of the club[1] and invited guests who are not members of a club but are interested in joining.

[1] Or members of an affiliated club at an institution of learning.

[mattc]

Aha. So the problematic riders are the ones who
" are already members of BC affiliated clubs".

Bummer. Looks like BC have got this stitched up!

(Unless you look at my alternative insurance option mentioned earlier - but that really was a long shot.)

[Jasmine]

The CTT levy is either £2 or £2.50.
(Plus an extra £1 for non-CTT members.)

Possibly more for "Open"s - but most of your £8+ goes on hall hire etc etc (the "glamour").


If it was double/treble this, it might kill off club TTs.

Where have you got these figures from Matt?  The CTT levy is £2 for 'club' events (Type B events), where riders from up to 4 different clubs can compete.  It's been fixed this year at £2 for for semi-open and open events this year too.

Riders are not members of CTT, but must be members of a CTT-affiliated club (affiliation costs about £80 IIRC from my last return).  Non-members (aka 'Unattached riders') are not allowed to ride AT ALL (even club events) unless the event is a specified 'come and try it' event.  Members can join a relevant club at the time.  Some clubs offer day rates, but the CTT levy remains the same.

David - does TLI operate in your area at all? Levies this year were £0 for all events, but required membership of TLI at £15 per year or £4 day membership.

[mattc]

From unreliable memory. I'm no expert on these matters - I never handle the money, and I don't even have a handbook  But it looks like £2 was about right!

Riders are not members of CTT, but must be members of a CTT-affiliated club (affiliation costs about £80 IIRC from my last return).

Yep, you're dead right. (That's what I meant when I wrote "CTT members". I plead guilty to sloppy posting.)

Non-members (aka 'Unattached riders') are not allowed to ride AT ALL (even club events) unless the event is a specified 'come and try it' event.  Members can join a relevant club at the time.  Some clubs offer day rates, but the CTT levy remains the same.

Now this is only partly true. ALL club events are now "come and try it" - our District rep guy confirmed this at commitee on Monday! There is certainly confusion around on this point.

... 'club' events (Type B events), where riders from up to 4 different clubs can compete.

Well that 4 club clause is new to me. I suspect it's been violated at least once in my experience. Will we get fined?!?

[Cudzoziemiec]

So, from all that: What if I, not a member of BC, CTT or any club wot does TTs, wanted to have a go at a TT next season? What would I need to do and how much would it cost?

Subsidiary question: Would I need a nelmet?

Just to be clear, I'm thinking of England, not Scotland!

[David Martin]

The answer for Scotland would be that you would have to have a cycle corresponding[1] to the technical regulations and to pay both the entry fee (£5 upwards) and a day license (£10). You also have to wear clothing in accordance with the technical regulations and wear an approved helmet[2]

[1] The amount of correspondence depends on the event and the commissaire in charge.
[2] ie a BS/EN/Snell certified lid. Again, for clothing regs see [1]. I will pull riders for wearing the wrong colour kit *if* and only if I receive a written complaint within 30 mins of the event finishing (as we are doing it for fun, not for championship bragging points)

[Jasmine]

Non-members (aka 'Unattached riders') are not allowed to ride AT ALL (even club events) unless the event is a specified 'come and try it' event.  Members can join a relevant club at the time.  Some clubs offer day rates, but the CTT levy remains the same.

Now this is only partly true. ALL club events are now "come and try it" - our District rep guy confirmed this at commitee on Monday! There is certainly confusion around on this point.

That's interesting, because out district rep disagrees (Liverpool - D), and thinks that we have to declare them in advance to CCT.  Which district are you under?  I'll ask ours again, because it's a pain the ass.

... 'club' events (Type B events), where riders from up to 4 different clubs can compete.

Well that 4 club clause is new to me. I suspect it's been violated at least once in my experience. Will we get fined?!?

No.  The only thing it changes is the levy payable when the full and minor levy amounts are not the same.  Club events are type B events, so pay te minor levy, unless more than 4 clubs are eligible for awards.   In most club TT there are no awards, so it makes no difference.

If you want to be bored to tears: http://ctt.org.uk/Information/Procedure/Regulations/tabid/79/Default.aspx

[mattc]

So, from all that: What if I, not a member of BC, CTT or any club wot does TTs, wanted to have a go at a TT next season? What would I need to do and how much would it cost?

Subsidiary question: Would I need a nelmet?

Just to be clear, I'm thinking of England, not Scotland!

About £4 (depends on the club).

You don't need ANY special kit (although HPVs aren't allowed, but you know what I mean ...). HOWEVER, a few clubs impose local rules like helmets, rear lights, no black socks ...

So I can say that you can just turn-up-and-ride at our events, but best to speak to the specific club to be truly certain. (Many don't even realise how come-and-try-it works.)

IMHO it's always best to contact a club first about just turning up - whether it's for a TT, a club-run, whatever.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Ok, so pretty cheap but best thing is to contact the Bristol South, Warmley Wheelers or whoever in the spring - if I'm feeling keen and think I might possibly be not so slow as to keep the timekeepers from their tea!

@David - this sounds ridiculously complicated and expensive in Scotland compared to E&W. Why on earth is there no Scottish equivalent of CTT?

[David Martin]

Because the Scottish Cycling Union (trading as Scottish Cycling) is not a region of British Cycling but is a partner organisation (albeit a junior one) that is part in and part out of the house, having it's own rule book [1] and agreements. There is a formal memorandum of understanding between BCF and SCU, and between CTT and SCU, where SCU handle everything north of the border and have reciprocal agreements with CTT/BCF. So a member of a CTT affiliated club can ride an SCU TT without being a BC member or paying the day rate as long as they can present a CTT membership card [2]. And an SCU member can ride any CTT event as if they were a member of a CTT affiliated club. But you still have to wear a helmet in Scotland (as you do in the GB national TT champs organised by BC because they are UCI events.)

There is a specific technical regulation that states that TTs are Reg C or C+ events and thus subject to the same levy and membership requirements as a reg C road race, though not requiring a race license.

[1] which is subservient to the BC one so apart from a few things is widely ignored.
[2] obtainable for free by writing to CTT with an endorsement by a club official to certify you are a member in good standing of the CTT-affiliated club.

[Hillbilly]

Also bear in mind that some local clubs attract sizeable fields.  My own local club has a triathlon contingent which makes things busy.  I don't think anyone has been turned away, but still best to let the club know you intend to turn up just so they are aware.  Naturally, the club riders are given preference over those who are unaffiliated or affiliated to another.  Our summer 10s are £2 (just finished, as the evenings draw in, but commence again in April/May next year).

This is, however, the time of year for hill climbs.  A peculiar type of fun.  Like cycling with a plastic bag taped over your head.

It's probably been mentioned elsewhere, but the CTT has lots of little rules that are easy to get caught out by.  Things like club colours and sponsored shirts.  Another reason to speak to people before turning up.

PS: If you are fast, turn up to an evening 10 on a mountain bike with nobblies and rip half the field a new one.  That always goes down well