Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: The Hood on 04 September, 2019, 12:54:41 am
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Hi all,
We've just moved from Brighton to Leeds and with summer coming to an end, I'm thinking of building up a steel bike to get me up hill and down dale year round. I'm thinking in terms of this being a forever bike, so I don't mind spending a fair bit, but am not able to go bonkers. I'm thinking 2k max. Any advice on bits and pieces would be really appreciated and i'll put up pics as I go. I don't have the greatest knowledge and haven't built a bike for a few years so don't worry about teaching your grandmother to suck eggs.
Frame
As we are in Leeds, I'd love to use a local frame, so that really means Bob Jackson, Spa or Woodrup, right? I don't think I've got the budget for a Woodrup and Spa frames don't excite me too much, so I'm thinking in terms of a BJ end to end. Is the only difference between that and the club Audax the tyre clearance.
Wheels
As I'm going for classic, I'm also thinking of Pacenti Brevit wheels. Any possible alternatives?
Groupset
I've seen a lot of people discussing mixing and matching of parts, but is there any reason not to buy an entire groupset? I was thinking of Campag centaur in silver, though I can't find anywhere to buy it (why is that?). I've never used Campag and prefer SRAM to Shimano, but would like to give Campag a whirl.
Saddle
Brooks B17
Other than that, I haven't thought of much more so if anyone has any suggestions for other bits and pieces, or suggestions on what I've planned, that would be great.
Thanks!
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I know this will offend one of the Campag fan club in some way but anyway...
A few years ago I was in a similar situation to you and tried Campag Centaur as a full groupset. However, after a few years I sold all my Campag kit. The reasons were
- The Centaur groupset for that year was pretty bad, it had plastic rachets in the shifters. Both shifters broke within a couple of years and could not be repaired
- The choice of hubs for Campag is less than for Shimano, particularly if you favour 36h rear wheels
- The BB design they used then needed all kinds of additional tools to service and wasn't weather proof
- All kinds of other stuff was more expensive if it was Campag compatible. For example extra narrow chains
On the plus side the chainrings were made of superior stuff and showed no wear over 2yr (usually I destroy Shimano rings in that time) when the shifters weren't broken they worked great. And Campag looks cool 8)
If I ever get Campag again (unlikely) I'd get Record grade stuff. It is extremely expensive but the lower grade stuff seems to be a bit of a lottery
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Bob Jackson Vulcan. Jackson have bought the rights to the Curly Hetchins, or so I was told, and sell it as the Vulcan.
Fancy lugs, curved seat stays, curved chain stays. Jacksons include for stuff like lug lining , contrasting head tube etc in the price because they know the frame looks so nice with it.
I've got one. It's so pretty.
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Local custom manufacturers: there is also Ellis Briggs (https://www.ellisbriggscycles.co.uk/bespoke-bikes/). Personally I wouldn't go BJ as I've heard too many stories about bad customer service and long lead times.
Groupset: Campag have two levels of shifter internals, Ultrashift and Powershift. As Vorsprung says, Powershift isn't much cop - I managed to break two before sourcing some Ultrashift levers on ebay. Current groupsets that have Ultrashift are SR, Record and Chorus.
I don't have any experience with their chainsets but they have two BB systems, Ultratorque and Powertorque. Word there is that Powertorque - you guessed it - isn't much cop either.
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Got a custom built BJ in 1985 - they were pretty offhand then. When it came to restoring it a couple of years ago they were positively obstructive. Wouldn't deal with them again.
Also, as mentioned up thread original Campag Centaur shifters were made of cheese but when mine broke they were replaced without quibble and free of charge. They've worked perfectly ever since and look really good too.
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He isn't local to you, but Richard Hallett has just built me a new bike (complete bike, not just the frame as I've done in the past). We had long discussions about parts and I've ended up with the usual mix'n'match: Spa triple with a reliable old-fashioned square-taper bottom-bracket; Shimano/Sunrace gears; a Suzue hub he sourced from somewhere.
It has 650B rims with big tyres and rolls along very comfortably.
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Hi all,
Wheels
As I'm going for classic, I'm also thinking of Pacenti Brevit wheels. Any possible alternatives?
I don't know if all Pacenti rims are the same, but I had 2 sets of pacenti rims, and they were really shit. I split the back rim on both wheel sets. Have replaced with H+son Archetypes for the narrow set. Am having another set made with Ryde Andra 321's for winter tyres.
Groupset
I've seen a lot of people discussing mixing and matching of parts, but is there any reason not to buy an entire groupset? I was thinking of Campag centaur in silver, though I can't find anywhere to buy it (why is that?). I've never used Campag and prefer SRAM to Shimano, but would like to give Campag a whirl.
Consider availability of parts, especially if you're intending to travel with the bike. One TCR rider went through 3 countries trying to find a bike shop that had any campag parts to help fix her bike last year. This year she ran shimano...
Saddle
Brooks B17
Other than that, I haven't thought of much more so if anyone has any suggestions for other bits and pieces, or suggestions on what I've planned, that would be great.
Personally I'd say make sure you've got nice wide tyre clearances. Being able to run 32mm or even wider has been great. On a recent audax, I had 32's and was riding with a group with 23, 25, and 28. The moment the road surface deteriorated, I just flew past them, much more controlled, comfortable, and faster over the rough surface. I also am a big fan of disc brakes, as they allow you to run a wider variety of wheels.
No doubt someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong shortly.
J
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No doubt someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong shortly.
J
You described your experiences (and that of a TCR competitor), so no one should suggest you are wrong
Good feedback actually as I have been thinking of running some wider tyres - though 28's, I hadn't even considered going up wider than that. Makes allot of sense, especially over the winter on the roads i ride on
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No doubt someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong shortly.
J
You described your experiences (and that of a TCR competitor), so no one should suggest you are wrong
Well yes, but someone always does...
Good feedback actually as I have been thinking of running some wider tyres - though 28's, I hadn't even considered going up wider than that. Makes allot of sense, especially over the winter on the roads i ride on
Now conti GP5k are available in 32mm, I struggle to see the argument for designing a bike to take anything less.
J
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I have a Spa Audax (steel/medium). It has the following equipment:
Campag Centaur Ultrashift levers (2010?)
Campag Centaur 10s rear mech
Campag Record Triple front mech (New, old stock)
Shimano 105 9s rear hub
Shimano 9s cassette
Shimano RX100 brake calipers
Spa chainset 46/34/24. (Paid an extra £10 for that combination)
Mavic Open Pro rear wheel
Ambrosio Excellight front wheel (schmidt hub)
San Marco Rolls saddle
I'm happy with the choice of kit. Didn't cost me a fortune either. I use 28 mm Michelin Pro Endurance tyres.
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I had a couple of Pacenti rims break as well. My wheel builder replaced them under warranty and hasn't restocked.
He says that they are built at another factory now, so newer versions may be ok.
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I have a £1,100 (reduced from £1,700) 853 steel road bike which I've used for audax, touring, and cyclocross which I reviewed at https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=111306.0
Since buying it I got a new set of wheels for £225 https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112882.0
I agree with QG, wider is the way to go. Personally I ride 31mm Vittoria Terreno Dry which have been fantastic for audax and dry conditions cyclocross. Discs are absolutely the way to go for me these days too. I specced mechanical discs in my original requirement but I think I would be so brave as to go for hydros now, especially if you are setting a net budget of two bags of sand.
I think you may be interested in the Genesis range. You could get a bike in the c. £1300-1500 range and then get some really nice wheels to go with it. https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes?categories=Bikes
Or (I think I'd do this) get the Croix de Fer 30 for £2k. It probably comes with OK wheels https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bike/croix-de-fer-30-2020
Fits 37mms which I expect would accommodate 33s with mudguards.
If you sit on your hands for a while longer there may be bargains around October/November. That's when I got mine in a sale. But then god knows what the pound will be up to at that point....
If you're determined to build it yourself, Genesis also sell just frames.
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Now conti GP5k are available in 32mm, I struggle to see the argument for designing a bike to take anything less.
J
I ran 32mm conti 5000s (with tubes) for PBP this year, they were fast enough and comfortable enough that I'll stick with them for Audaxing and general long rides. You can play with pressures if you want the sweetspot of comfort / speed for different surfaces or just jeave them at 60psi (105ish kg of bike, rider and kit) for everything and be happy.
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No doubt someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong shortly.
J
You described your experiences (and that of a TCR competitor), so no one should suggest you are wrong
Well yes, but someone always does...
You're wrong!
But I agree with you on Archetypes, wider tyres and disc brakes.
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I'd look at Shand, for some more modern steel designs. Shand Stoater looks like a decent option for audax, complete bike available for £2000.
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Now conti GP5k are available in 32mm, I struggle to see the argument for designing a bike to take anything less.
J
the main reason is that close clearance bike frames are snappier, more responsive, feel faster and more fun to ride - it is simply not possible to make a large clearance bike to handle that way. if i know the roads will be decent (which they are for 90% of all the riding i do) i nearly always opt for a racing bike with 25mm tyres.
wider tyred bikes can be fun too, particularly on poorer road surfaces.
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Short of buying some 32 tyres, how would I be able to check that the GP5000 tyres would clear my rim brakes and frame? (I've got an old-ish Ti Enigma Etape with rim brakes)
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Short of buying some 32 tyres, how would I be able to check that the GP5000 tyres would clear my rim brakes and frame? (I've got an old-ish Ti Enigma Etape with rim brakes)
Get someone to measure the dimensions of GP5000 tyres in 32mm on the same rims, though if they live close enough meeting up and trying to fit the wheel would be even more accurate.
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Short of buying some 32 tyres, how would I be able to check that the GP5000 tyres would clear my rim brakes and frame? (I've got an old-ish Ti Enigma Etape with rim brakes)
I've got an older Etape with disc brakes, 28mm tyres and mudguards but the tyre clearance on the mudguards is only a few millimetres and I'm constantly getting little stones caught in them. Enigma changed the geometry a year after I bought mine and they now sell it with 32mm tyres as standard. Not sure whether the 32mm tyres would work with your calipers though, but you'd only have to buy one tyre to find out, if it works then get the second. :)
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Got a custom built BJ in 1985 - they were pretty offhand then. When it came to restoring it a couple of years ago they were positively obstructive. Wouldn't deal with them again.
Mine was a off the shelf job - all I had to do was choose the paint scheme. Delivery was quick and painless.
If the OP wants a long lead time, Mercian is the place to go...
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This is my BJ Audax Club
if you like the 'classic' look
It will take 28mm tyres but no mudguards will satisfactorily fit the front fork with the campag brakes
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9Dsahw3n1BsBaUBY8
so the End to End is better for you but you will need long drop brakes, and I doubt campag brakes will fit.
The Spa Audax is an excellent option, sloping top tube.
I've gone for the Spa tourer as it will take 37mm with mudguards for rough roads
I'm really pleased with it as its still just under 11kgs with racks and guards, it's very comfy.
with 28mm it's a fast tourer too.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QR9ZG8aRrCZHhXBp9
hope this helps
sorry about the links I've never mastered posting images on the forum ! :)
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Hey. Thanks for all the replies. Really helpful.
I've heard the horror stories about Bob Jackson. But in terms of what I'm after, I think it might be worth a roll of the dice. It will be an off the peg frame as my budget won't stretch to custom and if they get it right, I think it could be ideal. Since I live locally, I also won't have to faff with shipping etc.
In terms of how I'm going to use it, it will really just be long day rides and if it's touring, it will be a short credit card tour, so I'm not worried about having to replace parts or using tyres bigger than 28 I'd say.
Ian Gaggiaport, your BJ is pretty much exactly what I'm after! even down to the colour of the frame. I do want mudguards though. Would you mind giving me a break down of the parts and how you have found them? I really do want to go for the classic look so want silver kit over black.
Thanks again all. 👍
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Short of buying some 32 tyres, how would I be able to check that the GP5000 tyres would clear my rim brakes and frame? (I've got an old-ish Ti Enigma Etape with rim brakes)
I've got an older Etape with disc brakes, 28mm tyres and mudguards but the tyre clearance on the mudguards is only a few millimetres and I'm constantly getting little stones caught in them. Enigma changed the geometry a year after I bought mine and they now sell it with 32mm tyres as standard. Not sure whether the 32mm tyres would work with your calipers though, but you'd only have to buy one tyre to find out, if it works then get the second. :)
Really useful, cheers
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Really liking the new Panaracer Pasela PT 32mm, at lower end pressures, on my bike (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48682992882_189559d134_b.jpg). They roll nicely on-road, but I also do a fair few bridleways and rough tracks (vv tiles bagging), and so far no issues or p*nctures (since mid June). Reasonably light for 32mm too. I wouldn't get the likes of GP5000, cos they're pricey & they're not amber walled. ;) Carradice SuperC Audax (or lighter version available) is good on the very convenient classic rack, with B17 saddle.
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Hi
Ok 1st the frame:
Audax club: off the peg 19.5" but I had 2 attempts to get the brake bridges and forks to fit the wheels.
The problem was resolved but then paintwork developed rust pinholes after 1 year.
I had Argos respray it 3 years later.
The colour is Celeste Cosmos metallic .
It is however very nice to ride, and I'd get another if I had to.I think the end to end is similar but the seat stays have different attachment to the down tube
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2nd components:
Stem is 110mm Nitto CycleBasket.co.uk
Handle bars: Nitto Noodle Planet X
Seat post: Deda
Saddle: Fabric radius
Shifters: Athena 11s *Athena is discontinued
RD Athena 11s
FD Athena 11s
Chainset and chainrings. Spa 50T 36 T
BB Shimano square taper 110mm
Cassette: 105 11-28
Brakes: Centaur skeleton..End to End will need Shimano long drop brakes
Wheels: Ultegra hubs, son archetype rims, DT spokes., althought with Chrina rims & gator skin 25s I could get mudguards on if they were cable tied at the brake bridge
I'm happy to ride ride Michelin Pro4 28mm endurance on the wider archetype rims , no need to go wider for me.
*Campag now make the Potenza groupset for people who like shiny thingsthe shifting is Powershift but I'm ok with that.There were some Campag bargains at Planet X not so long ago.
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The campy bargains are still up there. There are deals on Vittoria tyres now as well which might take your interest.
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I did something similar last year. I went for a Condor Fratello frame, H Plus Son Archetype rims with a dynamo hub at the front and mostly Ultegra running gear. I usually run 25mm tyres because that's what I have but I did put borrowed 28's on it as a test and they worked well. I bought the rim brake version of the frame, sometimes wish I had gone for discs.
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That's great. Thanks so much.
Starting to get somewhere I think.
Any opinions on gearing? Should I go for a triple or a double? And then 10 or 11 speed on the back? I really want to make sure I can tackle hills all day but I don't want more gears than I'll use.
I'd like to get the potenza front and back possibly, but does that take triple chainsets?
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Centaur is now the silver alternative.
Old stock potenza might be out there.
I think campag have dropped triple shifters.
So you're stuck with a double.
The spa chainsets will allow a 33T chainring
and with a medium cage could fit a 11- 32T on the back.
so a Spa double 46T 33T would be a good start and cheap to alter if you feel its too low
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I have an almost complete Potenza (11 speed) group set that I'm looking to offload. PM me if interested.
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I have a 48 / 32 on the front of my bike with 11 - 34 on the back. This gives me a decent climbing gear (especially at the end of a long day) and still a reasonable top gear. I bought a second hand Praxis Works Alba chainset and a corresponding Praxis BB. So far I have been very happy.
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Everyone's input has been really helpful. Thanks for all the advice and explanations of gear. I think I'm at a point where I need to visit the frame builders and work it out. But, on paper, I'm thinking:
Frame: BJ Audax End-End, A Woodrup (if they've got something ready made that fits out the back), possibly a Spa Audax (?). Mercian is a bit further away and I think will be too pricey, same with Ellis Briggs.
Wheels: Either Open pro or H Plus Son rims. No idea about the hubs. Any suggestions? Still love the look of the Pacenti Brevits too.
Groupset: Spa TD2 chainset - undecided on triple or double at the mo. I do NOT like hills, but I love coming down them.
Still don't know about mechs. I liked the idea of campag, but I have no experience with them. Do they even work with a triple chainset (excuse my ignorance)? I also can't use campag brakes, because I'm using mudguards. It's possibly looking like 105, but that feels so dull. Centaur Levers (but obviously depends on mechs) - I have no idea about compatibility. Cassette - ?
Brakes: Shimano R650. I thought about Tektro 737 just as an alternative to Shimano, but have read that the 650s really are better.
Handlebar and stem: Nitto probably.
Pedals - Shimano m540 or a520
Tyres: Gatorskin folding
Mudguards: SKS chromoplastic
Saddle: Brooks B17
Feel free to suggest alternatives. I've just been enjoying building this in my mind, like a dream team, but I'm not married to any of it. That said, a lot of my choices are based on the component being silver. Prettiness is a big factor, along with comfort and durability.
:thumbsup:
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IF you're set on narrower clincher tyres I really recommend the mile munchers - seen them on a few brevets since I wrote up my review ( https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109111.0 ) including the Paddington 600. They are cheaper than contis by quite a margin (£36 a pair versus gatorskins £60) and I'm convinced they're better, having ridden both 25mm (admittedly wired) gatorskins and the mile munchers. They are robust but also give good grip and ride quality. And they look good!
Since my review they've made them available in 30mm as well as the original 25.5.
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If this is to be a bike to last, I really do urge you to ditch the 11s powershit Campag. The shifters are known to not be durable, lots of Campag has gone to 12s by now and finding Campag spares is harder than Shimano anyway. You're basically buying into built-in obsolescence right from the start.
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Broadly agree, Karla
Yes Campag have gone to 12s
But everything is changing faster than I can wear out a groupset.
My Veloce have done 35,000kms
Athena 12,000 kms
How far should I expect my shifters to last?
And when do you stop looking and start buying?
isn't built in obsolescence / uneconomic repair par for the course?
All we can do is buy the best we can afford and hope nothing changes in the next month (apple inc. :demon:)
105 11s in silver might look 'classic ' enough. :)
and you'll have to have Shimano brakes anyway on an End to End frame.
the only reason I'm sticking with Campag is that I'm really happy with the shape of the shifters.
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Broadly agree, Karla
Yes Campag have gone to 12s
But everything is changing faster than I can wear out a groupset.
My Veloce have done 35,000kms
Athena 12,000 kms
As explained up thread, not all Campag shifters last as long as yours
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I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals. Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.
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I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals. Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.
Id be happy if the shifters lasted 7-10 years
and then I'll be tempted by sram eTAP
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IF you're set on narrower clincher tyres I really recommend the mile munchers - seen them on a few brevets since I wrote up my review ( https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109111.0 ) including the Paddington 600. They are cheaper than contis by quite a margin (£36 a pair versus gatorskins £60) and I'm convinced they're better, having ridden both 25mm (admittedly wired) gatorskins and the mile munchers. They are robust but also give good grip and ride quality. And they look good!
Since my review they've made them available in 30mm as well as the original 25.5.
Hey, good call on these. I might take a chance on the 30mm. Thanks.
So, in terms of the groupset, for levers and mechs, it's looking like Shimano, isn't it? Assuming I don't want to do the sensible thing, though, what, mechanically, would work? Bearing in mind I might go for a triple chainset and will have Shimano brakes? Would the 'cheaper' campag stuff like potenza, centaur and athena work?
Thanks again...
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You might also consider a visit to Paul Hewitt over the border in Lancashire, a good knowledge of what’s available OTP, his own OTP frames (also available elsewhere) and full custom if you decide that’s the way to go.
As for any discussion on what is and isn’t right, it’s just silly, I know what’s right for me and happy to say why, but there’s no expectation that it’s right for someone else. I know the traditional lugged frame with its restrictive geometry and tube dimensions won’t suit me, but suits many others.
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https://road.cc/content/feature/221157-death-triple-chainset
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The cheaper campag 11s will work as a double.
Even shmergo 11s
But bear in mind the warnings that the shifter components are weaker than the upper level 12s
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I’ve had some H Plus & Son Archetype and both front and rear have flaked around the spoke holes. Make sure that whatever you get has eyelets.
In terms of groupset, whilst the romance and history of campag would be good, I’d go Shimano, just because parts are likely to be cheaper and more readily available. I know they used to say “Shimano wears out, Campag wears in”, I am not sure that’s the case nowadays.
I’ve just bought a new audax bike and immediately changed the standard 34-50 compact chainset for a Shimano GRX 30-46 gravel one. Works well with the 105 groupset now the bike and gives me a lowest gear of 30-34, which should let me winch myself up anything. I won’t miss much at the top end, if I’m spinning out a 46-11, then I can freewheel.
I’d definitely go hand built on the wheels and get a dynamo front hub (and lights). The freedom and peace of mind offered are worth it.
I’m running 28s, but wouldn’t be adverse to 30 or 32 and will consider when renewing.
Definitely hydraulic discs if it’s an all-year bike.
Enjoy the process. Speccing a new bike is great fun and should be a part of the process.
I can’t understand people who just click a bike from wiggle/crc/ribble etc. with no protracted umming and aaahing.
KDB
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals. Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.
Id be happy if the shifters lasted 7-10 years
and then I'll be tempted by sram eTAP
7-10 years? My first set of Powershit lasted slightly under a year, the second set lasted about the same.
The Ultrashift replacements have lasted coming up 7 years, but for that the OP would need to go 12s as Campag don't make 11s US anymore.
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I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals. Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.
Id be happy if the shifters lasted 7-10 years
and then I'll be tempted by sram eTAP
7-10 years? My first set of Powershit lasted slightly under a year, the second set lasted about the same.
The Ultrashift replacements have lasted coming up 7 years, but for that the OP would need to go 12s as Campag don't make 11s US anymore.
Yes I I hope I haven't jinxed my shifters but I've had no problems with the the veloce... 10 years of SRs.
And yes the OP should consider Shimano as the main option. With a 46 30 chainset. And enjoy the process
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Hello again!
I went to Woodrups and had a good tour around with Stephen, including the workshop, which I found really interesting (my 5 year old twins less so). There is a 4 month wait for a custom frame, but I think for what I'm after, I could get that and do the whole bike for under 2k. I'm wondering though if it's the right way to go now. Part of the reason I want this bike is for a winter trainer and commuter, so it seems a bit indulgent to build something this fancy, so I've been looking at complete bike options with a budget of £1k. Still high for a winter bike I think, but so much to choose from. I'm thinking of the following...
2019 Cannondale Synapse 105 SE (£999)
Spa Steel Audax (£990)
Ribble Endurance AL disc 105 (£1099)
Ribble Endurance 725 Disc (£1199)
Ribble Endurance 725 (£899)
Genesis Croix de Fer custom by Spa (£1350)
Planet X London Road w SRAM Rival 22 and hydraulic disc (£899)
Genesis Equilibrium 2020 (£999)
Genesis Equilibrium disc 20 (£1299)
I've discounted The Canyon Endurace because it doesn't take larger tyres or take mudguards (although I otherwise love the look of it). I've also had Trek and Specialized in the past and fancy something different. The Thorn Audax is also too pricey I think at about £1400 with Tiagra, but I could have my arm twisted if they really are that great.
Does anyone have experience of these or an opinion on which to go for? I'm thinking of just going to have a look at some of them as they all look like great bikes.
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You may be interested in the Canyon Grail 6.0, which basically looks like the endurance but fits bigger tyres and mudguards.
Aluminium frame and tiagra but it does come with DT swiss wheelset. I think it's about £1100.
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You may be interested in the Canyon Grail 6.0, which basically looks like the endurance but fits bigger tyres and mudguards.
Aluminium frame and tiagra but it does come with DT swiss wheelset. I think it's about £1100.
Oh mate. Good call. I've kind of swerved away from Gravel bikes just because I know I will be 90% on road and I want it to still feel fairly lively. How does a gravel bike feel on a long road ride? I've never tried one.
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I'm wondering though if it's the right way to go now.
Yes, it's what you want, you're just trying to talk yourself out of it by the lack of justification, you don't need to.
It's nearly always cheaper in the long run to buy once. if you've changed the requirements to just needing a capable winter hack, £500 at Decathlon will get you all you need.
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A gravel bike is a disc brake road bike that can take larger tyres, usually with some mumbling about endurance geometry and maybe lower (or wider) gearing, although exactly what varies by manufacturer. None of that makes them worse on road. It's a marketing term mostly.
The London Road and probably some of the others on your list could be considered gravel bikes by any reasonable definition.
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You may be interested in the Canyon Grail 6.0, which basically looks like the endurance but fits bigger tyres and mudguards.
Aluminium frame and tiagra but it does come with DT swiss wheelset. I think it's about £1100.
Oh mate. Good call. I've kind of swerved away from Gravel bikes just because I know I will be 90% on road and I want it to still feel fairly lively. How does a gravel bike feel on a long road ride? I've never tried one.
My own bike is what I'd call a gravel-y road bike. The clearance is 32-33mm max but the geography is very relaxed and audaxy, I find it very comfortable if not exactly performance oriented. They come with wheels that normally can take 28mm tyres at the smallest and 40-50mm at the widest. They're not completely unlike cross bikes in terms of how they roll across terrain but the handling is more like an endurance road bike.
This video might help illustrate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thg9dz_snNI . As show, both are good for off roading but cross bikes are superior for nimbly getting around technical cross courses than a gravel bike. Gravel bikes are really for going in straight-ish directions.
I think gravel riding is definitely its own thing (see e.g. this list http://www.granfondoguide.com/Contents/Index/2228/top-10-toughest-gravel-grinders-out-west-for-2017 ) and not just marketing, but the idea is new to the UK.The thing is these kind of routes are a bit rare over here. You'd struggle to find a ride that's hour after hour on actual gravel roads whereas in the USA and Canada you have these literal crushed stone double-track 'fire roads' all over the place. 'Gravel riding' in the UK is basically just using a gravel bike on bridleways and hardtail MTB trails from what I've seen so far. Still fun. There is a ride called the Strada Bianche Essex which I mean to do at some point.
(https://www.hub-velo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/4423_strade-bianche-2015.jpg)
If you could borrow one and take it for a spin e.g. from Cycle Republic or Evans you could have a think about it.
PX have also just dropped the price on a load of frames... https://www.planetx.co.uk/news/planet-x-news/q/date/2019/09/23/massive-frame-reprice?fbclid=IwAR3dnUaTpXCsdOzCrhUrOTDrMAPGCguO3jZ7YHespp_DwmwyuJvf2jQH8_I
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Spa tourer ?
If it's essentially a winter bike you want.
Not press fit BB
Can take 37mm with guards
And front & back luggage.
Photo up thread.
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I think gravel riding is definitely its own thing (see e.g. this list http://www.granfondoguide.com/Contents/Index/2228/top-10-toughest-gravel-grinders-out-west-for-2017 ) and not just marketing, but the idea is new to the UK.The thing is these kind of routes are a bit rare over here. You'd struggle to find a ride that's hour after hour on actual gravel roads whereas in the USA and Canada you have these literal crushed stone double-track 'fire roads' all over the place. 'Gravel riding' in the UK is basically just using a gravel bike on bridleways and hardtail MTB trails from what I've seen so far. Still fun. There is a ride called the Strada Bianche Essex which I mean to do at some point.
I thought in a UK context "gravel" just meant "maintained by sustrans"
J
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I have the genesis equilibrium disc 20 you referred to. I really like it and it has more or less taken over full-time from my carbon 'fast' bike. Plus points; hydraulic discs, thru-axles, decent frame, 105 groupset, comfortable shallow drops. There are some issues for you though. Maximum tyres with guards are 28s. I use grand prix 4000iis in 28. Gearing is semi-compact 52/36 with 11-28 cassette. I swapped the rear mech to get an 11-32 cassette, but you sound as though you are looking for lower than that. I've also swapped the wheels for Hunt ones with a dynamo.
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Again, really useful advice from everyone. Thanks so much for that. I am getting a bit obsessed with reviews and specs, and with roughly a 1k budget, there is so much choice. I'm also now really liking the idea of the one bike fits all scope of gravel bikes / endurance bikes with good clearance.
I actually went to Spa cycles and tried the Aubisque with mechanical brakes. It was nice, but not mad on the colour. The Audax only takes 25s with mudguards and the tourer is too full on for me, plus doesn't have discs.
The Canyon Grail is out of stock and they can't say when they will be back in stock. The Endurace disc with 105 and hydraulic brakes is in stock and reduced to £1100. With the spec, it looks amazing, but doesn't take mudguards so it would be race blades (is that okay? Hmm, not sure - I really want fitted guards). The disc version takes 30s. Another option is the Rose Pro Cross Gravel with RX400. I am a little put off by the gravel specific groupset, but that's just because it's new and I have no experience or knowledge of it. It is also £1400, but the spec, again is great for the money. I don't fancy any of the single chainring options.
Then there is the Planet X London Road with Rival 22 at £900, but I think those wheels (Gipiemme Roccia Equipe 700c/29 Inch Disc Wheelset / Black / Shimano/SRAM 10/11sp) are fairly tonk ??? I would live with them for a while I imagine.
I have even considered getting the endurace and then getting a Woodrup frame with good clearance and switching all the gear next year. Then I will be closer to what I initially planned and can sell the unwanted frame. Seems a good way to get the components cheap.
I understand how insane and obsessive this all is. I think that's part of the thrill. ???
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When I eventually downsize and move towards the Sussex coast I am thinking about a gravel bike. The South Downs (like South Oxfordshire and chunks of Salisbury Plain) has a dearth of north-south tarmac routes, and those that do exist are usually busy with cyclists funnelled on to roads with heavy commercial vehicles and high volumes of other motorised traffic. When these chalk hills dry out (generally from May - October) there are plenty of gravel tracks that can be used to link up routes and avoid the same old routes. Similarly, as Selsey is my most likely retirement destination I reckon a gravel bike allows me an alternative to the B2145 on what the local council and Sustrans laughably call cycle routes. That opens up the prospect of much longer routes than i woudl wnat to do on a mountain bike, but in conditions that for 10 - 30% of the time aren't suitable for my road machines.