Steel Audax build

[bludger]

The campy bargains are still up there. There are deals on Vittoria tyres now as well which might take your interest.

[BobScarle]

I did something similar last year. I went for a Condor Fratello frame, H Plus Son Archetype rims with a dynamo hub at the front and mostly Ultegra running gear. I usually run 25mm tyres because that's what I have but I did put borrowed 28's on it as a test and they worked well. I bought the rim brake version of the frame, sometimes wish I had gone for discs.

[The Hood]

That's great. Thanks so much.

Starting to get somewhere I think.

Any opinions on gearing? Should I go for a triple or a double? And then 10 or 11 speed on the back? I really want to make sure I can tackle hills all day but I don't want more gears than I'll use.

I'd like to get the potenza front and back possibly, but does that take triple chainsets?

[Ian gaggiaport]

Centaur is now the silver alternative.
Old stock potenza might be out there.
I think campag have dropped triple shifters.
So you're stuck with a double.

The spa chainsets will allow a 33T chainring
and with a medium cage could fit a 11- 32T on the back.

so a  Spa double 46T 33T would be a good start and cheap to alter if you feel its too low

[Kangaroocourt]

I have an almost complete Potenza (11 speed) group set that I'm looking to offload. PM me if interested.

[BobScarle]

I have a 48 / 32 on the front of my bike with 11 - 34 on the back. This gives me a decent climbing gear (especially at the end of a long day) and still a reasonable top gear. I bought a second hand Praxis Works Alba chainset and a corresponding Praxis BB. So far I have been very happy.

[The Hood]

Everyone's input has been really helpful. Thanks for all the advice and explanations of gear. I think I'm at a point where I need to visit the frame builders and work it out. But, on paper, I'm thinking:

Frame: BJ Audax End-End, A Woodrup (if they've got something ready made that fits out the back), possibly a Spa Audax (?). Mercian is a bit further away and I think will be too pricey, same with Ellis Briggs.

Wheels: Either Open pro or H Plus Son rims. No idea about the hubs. Any suggestions? Still love the look of the Pacenti Brevits too.

Groupset: Spa TD2 chainset - undecided on triple or double at the mo. I do NOT like hills, but I love coming down them.
Still don't know about mechs. I liked the idea of campag, but I have no experience with them. Do they even work with a triple chainset (excuse my ignorance)? I also can't use campag brakes, because I'm using mudguards. It's possibly looking like 105, but that feels so dull. Centaur Levers (but obviously depends on mechs) - I have no idea about compatibility. Cassette - ?

Brakes: Shimano R650. I thought about Tektro 737 just as an alternative to Shimano, but have read that the 650s really are better.

Handlebar and stem: Nitto probably.

Pedals - Shimano m540 or a520

Tyres: Gatorskin folding

Mudguards: SKS chromoplastic

Saddle: Brooks B17

Feel free to suggest alternatives. I've just been enjoying building this in my mind, like a dream team, but I'm not married to any of it. That said, a lot of my choices are based on the component being silver. Prettiness is a big factor, along with comfort and durability.

 

[bludger]

IF you're set on narrower clincher tyres I really recommend the mile munchers - seen them on a few brevets since I wrote up my review ( https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109111.0 ) including the Paddington 600. They are cheaper than contis by quite a margin (£36 a pair versus gatorskins £60) and I'm convinced they're better, having ridden both 25mm (admittedly wired) gatorskins and the mile munchers. They are robust but also give good grip and ride quality. And they look good!

Since my review they've made them available in 30mm as well as the original 25.5.

[Karla]

If this is to be a bike to last, I really do urge you to ditch the 11s powershit Campag.  The shifters are known to not be durable, lots of Campag has gone to 12s by now and finding Campag spares is harder than Shimano anyway.  You're basically buying into built-in obsolescence right from the start.

[Ian gaggiaport]

Broadly agree, Karla
Yes Campag have gone to 12s
But everything is changing faster than I can wear out a groupset.
My Veloce have done 35,000kms
Athena 12,000 kms

How far should I expect my shifters to last?

And when do you stop looking and start buying?
isn't built in obsolescence  / uneconomic repair par for the course?
All we can do is buy the best we can afford and hope nothing changes in the next month (apple inc. )
105 11s in silver might look  'classic ' enough.
and you'll have to have Shimano brakes anyway on an End to End frame.

the only reason I'm sticking with Campag is that I'm really happy with the shape of the shifters.

[vorsprung]

Broadly agree, Karla
Yes Campag have gone to 12s
But everything is changing faster than I can wear out a groupset.
My Veloce have done 35,000kms
Athena 12,000 kms

As explained up thread, not all Campag shifters last as long as yours

[Karla]

I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals.  Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.

[Ian gaggiaport]

I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals.  Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.

Id be happy if the shifters lasted 7-10 years
and then I'll be tempted by sram eTAP

[The Hood]

IF you're set on narrower clincher tyres I really recommend the mile munchers - seen them on a few brevets since I wrote up my review ( https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109111.0 ) including the Paddington 600. They are cheaper than contis by quite a margin (£36 a pair versus gatorskins £60) and I'm convinced they're better, having ridden both 25mm (admittedly wired) gatorskins and the mile munchers. They are robust but also give good grip and ride quality. And they look good!

Since my review they've made them available in 30mm as well as the original 25.5.

Hey, good call on these. I might take a chance on the 30mm. Thanks.

So, in terms of the groupset, for levers and mechs, it's looking like Shimano, isn't it? Assuming I don't want to do the sensible thing, though, what, mechanically, would work? Bearing in mind I might go for a triple chainset and will have Shimano brakes? Would the 'cheaper' campag stuff like potenza, centaur and athena work?

Thanks again...
 

[Paul H]

You might also consider a visit to Paul Hewitt over the border in Lancashire, a good knowledge of what’s available OTP, his own OTP frames (also available elsewhere) and full custom if you decide that’s the way to go.
As for any discussion on what is and isn’t right, it’s just silly, I know what’s right for me and happy to say why, but there’s no expectation that it’s right for someone else.  I know the traditional lugged frame with its restrictive geometry and tube dimensions won’t suit me,  but suits many others.

[Ian gaggiaport]

https://road.cc/content/feature/221157-death-triple-chainset

[Ian gaggiaport]

The cheaper campag 11s will work as a double.
Even shmergo 11s
But bear in mind the warnings that the shifter components are weaker than the upper level 12s

[CaptainVolvo]

I’ve had some H Plus & Son Archetype and both front and rear have flaked around the spoke holes. Make sure that whatever you get has eyelets.
In terms of groupset, whilst the romance and history of campag would be good, I’d go Shimano, just because parts are likely to be cheaper and more readily available. I know they used to say “Shimano wears out, Campag wears in”, I am not sure that’s the case nowadays.
I’ve just bought a new audax bike and immediately changed the standard 34-50 compact chainset for a Shimano GRX 30-46 gravel one. Works well with the 105 groupset now the bike and gives me a lowest gear of 30-34, which should let me winch myself up anything. I won’t miss much at the top end, if I’m spinning out a 46-11, then I can freewheel.
I’d definitely go hand built on the wheels and get a dynamo front hub (and lights). The freedom and peace of mind offered are worth it.
I’m running 28s, but wouldn’t be adverse to 30 or 32 and will consider when renewing.
Definitely hydraulic discs if it’s an all-year bike.

Enjoy the process. Speccing a new bike is great fun and should be a part of the process.
I can’t understand people who just click a bike from wiggle/crc/ribble etc. with no protracted umming and aaahing.

KDB


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[Karla]

I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals.  Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.

Id be happy if the shifters lasted 7-10 years
and then I'll be tempted by sram eTAP

7-10 years?  My first set of Powershit lasted slightly under a year, the second set lasted about the same.

The Ultrashift replacements have lasted coming up 7 years, but for that the OP would need to go 12s as Campag don't make 11s US anymore.

[Ian gaggiaport]

I like the shape too, but I broke two Veloce shifters before scouring ebay for a pair of new shape 10 speed shifteres with US internals.  Those have lasted fine for several years, but when they eventually implode I'll be looking to switch.

Id be happy if the shifters lasted 7-10 years
and then I'll be tempted by sram eTAP

7-10 years?  My first set of Powershit lasted slightly under a year, the second set lasted about the same.

The Ultrashift replacements have lasted coming up 7 years, but for that the OP would need to go 12s as Campag don't make 11s US anymore.

Yes I I hope I haven't jinxed my shifters but I've had no problems with the the veloce... 10 years of SRs.
And yes the OP should consider Shimano as the main option. With a 46 30 chainset. And enjoy the process

[The Hood]

Hello again!

I went to Woodrups and had a good tour around with Stephen, including the workshop, which I found really interesting (my 5 year old twins less so). There is a 4 month wait for a custom frame, but I think for what I'm after, I could get that and do the whole bike for under 2k. I'm wondering though if it's the right way to go now. Part of the reason I want this bike is for a winter trainer and commuter, so it seems a bit indulgent to build something this fancy, so I've been looking at complete bike options with a budget of £1k. Still high for a winter bike I think, but so much to choose from. I'm thinking of the following...

2019 Cannondale Synapse 105 SE (£999)
Spa Steel Audax (£990)
Ribble Endurance AL disc 105 (£1099)
Ribble Endurance 725 Disc (£1199)
Ribble Endurance 725 (£899)
Genesis Croix de Fer custom by Spa (£1350)
Planet X London Road w SRAM Rival 22 and hydraulic disc (£899)
Genesis Equilibrium 2020 (£999)
Genesis Equilibrium disc 20 (£1299)

I've discounted The Canyon Endurace because it doesn't take larger tyres or take mudguards (although I otherwise love the look of it). I've also had Trek and Specialized in the past and fancy something different. The Thorn Audax is also too pricey I think at about £1400 with Tiagra, but I could have my arm twisted if they really are that great.

Does anyone have experience of these or an opinion on which to go for? I'm thinking of just going to have a look at some of them as they all look like great bikes.

[bludger]

You may be interested in the Canyon Grail 6.0, which basically looks like the endurance but fits bigger tyres and mudguards.

Aluminium frame and tiagra but it does come with DT swiss wheelset. I think it's about £1100.

[The Hood]

You may be interested in the Canyon Grail 6.0, which basically looks like the endurance but fits bigger tyres and mudguards.

Aluminium frame and tiagra but it does come with DT swiss wheelset. I think it's about £1100.

Oh mate. Good call. I've kind of swerved away from Gravel bikes just because I know I will be 90% on road and I want it to still feel fairly lively. How does a gravel bike feel on a long road ride? I've never tried one.

[Paul H]

I'm wondering though if it's the right way to go now.

Yes, it's what you want, you're just trying to talk yourself out of it by the lack of justification, you don't need to.
It's nearly always cheaper in the long run to buy once.  if you've changed the requirements to just needing a capable winter hack, £500 at Decathlon will get you all you need.

[grams]

A gravel bike is a disc brake road bike that can take larger tyres, usually with some mumbling about endurance geometry and maybe lower (or wider) gearing, although exactly what varies by manufacturer. None of that makes them worse on road. It's a marketing term mostly.

The London Road and probably some of the others on your list could be considered gravel bikes by any reasonable definition.