Author Topic: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?  (Read 4186 times)

ravenbait

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Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #25 on: 03 July, 2023, 04:40:12 pm »
What was it made of?
What did you cut it with?
What colour was it?
Was there any débris when you cut it - sawdust etc?

This is the point where I go "WTF?" and wonder if they're taking the piss, or I'm actually an alien or something.

If it helps, I don't think you're the abnormal one.

Sam
https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #26 on: 03 July, 2023, 06:43:47 pm »
According to the test ^ I have hyperphantasia.

Basil

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Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #27 on: 03 July, 2023, 06:53:21 pm »
Seems I am phantastic.  :D
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #28 on: 04 July, 2023, 07:57:48 am »
Mine had the colour and consistency of soft tofu.

If you are going to slice a block up, might as well make it something easy to cut.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #29 on: 04 July, 2023, 09:29:12 am »
According to the test ^ I have hyperphantasia.

Same. I can smell the trees by the lake.

Does this mean I live in a phantasi world?

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #30 on: 05 July, 2023, 10:06:01 pm »
Interesting topic. I'm definitely in the visual crew but it reminds me of a discussion with a (very intelligent maths-brained, now professor in Auckland) flatmate about thinking without language. He was adamant it was impossible, but people who claim to be able to think without language might not be recognising the language as language.

I guess it depends on what you call language and thought. Thinking happens without thinking about anything. Babies clearly think long before they can speak – but they also have language long before they can speak.

The bit I'm finding nearest to weird (but not quite weird, just difficult to comprehend) is about making a space in your thoughts so you can think of an apple.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

ravenbait

  • Someone's imaginary friend
  • No, RB3, you can't have more tupperware.
    • Someone's imaginary friend
Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #31 on: 06 July, 2023, 11:32:01 am »
I have proproceptive synaesthesia. So everything has a form. Sound has shape and texture and taste. Colour has texture and taste (and sometimes shape). Smell has a shape and a texture and sometimes colour. Inside my head isn't emptiness into which thoughts spring like stars exploding in space. It's more like an ether -- or one of those desk toys made of lots of pins that you can shove things into and the pins make the shape of them.

https://www.sensorytoywarehouse.com/product/pin-art-metal-pins/

Or putty. Or water (well, slushy ice). Something that has substance because in my cross-wired brain nothing that exists doesn't have a touch element, including my imagination.

So for me to be able to think of an apple, which is a thing with its own texture, taste, colour, and smell, I have to clear the existing texture so I can have an apple as opposed to an apple-shaped object made of the texture of imagination.

I'm sure this isn't explained very well, but the inside of my head is a very odd place.

Sam
https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #32 on: 07 July, 2023, 03:22:23 pm »
Mine had the colour and consistency of soft tofu.

If you are going to slice a block up, might as well make it something easy to cut.

Now that is odd, why not have a light sabre, that can cut through everything.  Like the knife that cuts and toasts bread from the hitchhikers film.

fruitcake

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Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #33 on: 23 July, 2023, 01:24:23 pm »
- think of a cube
- bisect it vertically
- bisect it vertically again
- and again, horizontally.

Now, how many pieces have you?
How did you reach that answer, by visualisation or abstract reasoning?
What was it made of?
What did you cut it with?
What colour was it?
Was there any débris when you cut it - sawdust etc?

Eight pieces, if all of the pieces were bisected in the final cut;
Through visualisation step-by-step as I was reading the instructions here;
The cube had the texture of cheddar cheese;
I cut it with an imaginary knife, and the knife was invisible - I was focussing on the cube;
The cube was black on the outside and white inside;
There was no debris afterwards.

I sew, and when I'm planning to make something from multiple pieces of fabric, I imagine the finished product then disassemble it in my mind, in order to design the separate pieces, and the seam allowance for each piece. Then I sketch these pieces so I don't forget what I've planned to do.

I make furniture which I design in my mind, then capture that design with pencil and paper so I don't forget it. There though, especially if there are too many pieces (or details) to remember, the paper plan gives me the opportunity to refine the design. and I will draw it four or five times, making minor improvements each time, usually refining the joints.

I can rearrange the furniture in a room for an optimal layout, in my mind.

At work I need to imagine the flow of crowds of people through buildings, and position staff at the 'bottlenecks'.

I break eye contact with any other people in the room in order to visualise what we're talking about and in order to concentrate on it.

It's only in reading this thread that I'm learning that some people don't visualise objects and spaces in this way, while others may not visualise to the same extent; I suspect phantasia is a spectrum of its own, where each of us occupies a certain position. I also feel we're dealing with a few distinct categories of visualisation here: the manipulation of imaginary objects to plan their construction seems categorically different from 'photographic memory', for instance, and different from recalling flavours. It should be possible to rank highly in some of those skills and not others, shouldn't it?

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #34 on: 23 July, 2023, 05:59:25 pm »
There is a Rutherford and Fry Curious Cases podcast on this very subject.  It was fascinating listening.

I have clear and often vivid images and they seem to be much better than what I can see in real life.  I also dream in spectacular imagery. 

The concept of not being able to visualise what I imagine has fascinated me ever since I met a person blind from birth.  They of course have no concept of colour let alone the endless shapes of nature: a river flowing, raindrops falling, trees swaying in the breeze, lambs bouncing joyously around in the pasture and so on.

How do you describe something that there is no concept of in the mind of the recipient?

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #35 on: 24 July, 2023, 07:43:52 pm »
One of Oliver Sack's books talks about aphantasia but also blind people who have been sighted and become blind and how some of them strongly visualise in their minds eye and use that as a coping strategy and indeed the opposite experience Prof John Hull who started losing his visualising capacity as he went into "deep blindness" (Hull had zero vision including light/dark sensitivity).

How to explain visual things to blind-from-birth folks is indeed a challenge. One of my blind friends says she doesn't understand the concept of transparent despite people trying to explain it to her.

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #36 on: 30 July, 2023, 10:09:43 am »
There is a Rutherford and Fry Curious Cases podcast on this very subject.  It was fascinating listening.

Not listened to it yet - I managed to avoid finding out about these two until a month or two ago, and have been working my way up from series 1. Here is a link though - that'll be on my listening later.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gwys

This is a fascinating subject, and has sparked some interesting discussions with MrsH.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #37 on: 30 July, 2023, 10:41:19 am »
My daughter has a rather fascinating kind of synaesthesia: she sees numbers in colour, a bit like the Google* logo.  She only discovered in her 20's that other people didn't see them that way.

* thx Mr. L  ::-)
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Kim

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Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #38 on: 30 July, 2023, 12:29:22 pm »
How do you describe something that there is no concept of in the mind of the recipient?

Mathematics.

Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #39 on: 30 July, 2023, 12:58:57 pm »
Not really relevant to aphantasia, but listening the the Rutherford & Fry thing, Dr Fry was talking about going into a scanner and being told to do maths. As it went into more complex stuff (differentiation etc.) her visual cortex lit up.  Which has a parallel to having just spent many thousands of pounds at work on GPUs to do AI/ML number crunching. Computers are clearly becoming more like us, welcome our robotic overlords.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Aphantasia, what do you see when you think about something?
« Reply #40 on: 30 July, 2023, 04:43:23 pm »
There is a Rutherford and Fry Curious Cases podcast on this very subject.  It was fascinating listening.

Not listened to it yet - I managed to avoid finding out about these two until a month or two ago, and have been working my way up from series 1. Here is a link though - that'll be on my listening later.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gwys

This is a fascinating subject, and has sparked some interesting discussions with MrsH.

I had a listen to that with live craptions in Chrome which was probably worth it (but my god there's a lot of verbal and auditory guff in radio/podcasts - stop jingling and jiving at me just talk and stop whittering ffs).

I'm aphantasic but actually good at facial recognition and horrible at spatial awareness, so I wonder what that's about.

I don't have an inner monologue though, thank feck, they sound annoying!