Trail tyres

[phil d]

This is my first foray onto this board (readers will recognise me from the audax board), and was somewhat surprised to find no thread on the subject of MTB tyres.  And yes, I know tyres are a very subjective topic!

I'm relatively new to the world of mtb riding - had a Giant carbon hardtail (with a Thudbuster post to ease my aging body) for a couple of years, but only in the last 12 months really started using it properly.  It came with a pair of Kenda 8-block tyres (2.1") which last summer were fine on the local tracks, which are in the Chiltern Beechwoods, the Ridgeway and the Wiltshire Downs.  This year, with a lot more of the wet stuff, they really left me wanting more grip.

I was recommended Schwalbe's Nobby Nics.  These were much better in the mud, but after only about 150 miles I'm finding that they are cutting badly.  The front one is now useless, with the tube ballooning through the side.

So, what do the panel recommend? Not looking for the ultimate downhill racing tyres, or tyres for genuine mountains.  Just reliable tyres for muddy/chalky/flinty and sometimes gravelly trails.

[perpetual dan]

I'm no expert, but I found that Bontrager Mud-X on the back wheel has worked well for keeping traction on the South Downs in the wet. A reasonably knobbly but not huge tyre whose name I cannot remember is on the front.

Edit to add: the key thing with the Mud X is that they aren't that wide, so dig in a bit.

[Andrew Br]

Marathon Extremes ?
I have them on my tourer and I've been impressed with them on mud, wet grass and gravel.

Actually, having re-read your post, they may not be as off-roady as you need; they're more of a compromise for road/off-road.

[phil d]

That's an interesting comment re the width.  I had been wondering about the apparent move from about 1.75" that I was using 10 years ago to the 2.1, 2.2 or even 2.4" that seems prevalent now.  And given that rims are actually narrower this all seemed counter-intuitive.

I gather that the very wide tyres are for downhill racing.

[phil d]

Marathon Extremes ?
I have them on my tourer and I've been impressed with them on mud, wet grass and gravel.

Actually, having re-read your post, they may not be as off-roady as you need; they're more of a compromise for road/off-road.

No, you're right.  I'm talking pure off-road here.  I try not to mix on and off (though do ride a few easy trails on the bikes I use for audax).  As a side issue, I've found Marathons extremely difficult to get on and off - my preference is for Panaracers on the road, for which I rarely need levers.

Dan's comments re South Downs are particularly pertinent, as I was supposed to be riding SDW this Friday/Saturday.  But unfortunately an off a week ago left me with a broken (? - certainly still very painful) rib.

[perpetual dan]

The Mud-X are 1.8. I think wider at the front is usual, although I did have some that were big for their size and quickly gummed up in the forks near stables.

Dan's comments re South Downs are particularly pertinent, as I was supposed to be riding SDW this Friday/Saturday.  But unfortunately an off a week ago left me with a broken (? - certainly still very painful) rib.

Ouch, GWS.
Any grip on wet chalk is hard to come by, of course. Apart from a few very busy spots the downs are slippy rather than deep mud.

[fuaran]

I was recommended Schwalbe's Nobby Nics.  These were much better in the mud, but after only about 150 miles I'm finding that they are cutting badly.  The front one is now useless, with the tube ballooning through the side.

So, what do the panel recommend? Not looking for the ultimate downhill racing tyres, or tyres for genuine mountains.  Just reliable tyres for muddy/chalky/flinty and sometimes gravelly trails.

Depends on just what version of the Nobby Nics you are using. Some of them are pretty lightweight race tyres. If you look for a version with "SnakeSkin" or "Double Defense", they have tougher sidewalls.
I also like the Schwalbe Alberts and Smart Sams, I think they are a bit grippier/tougher than the Nobby Nic, though probably heavier.

[PaulF]

That's an interesting comment re the width.  I had been wondering about the apparent move from about 1.75" that I was using 10 years ago to the 2.1, 2.2 or even 2.4" that seems prevalent now.  And given that rims are actually narrower this all seemed counter-intuitive.

I gather that the very wide tyres are for downhill racing.

Narrower tyres are better for deep mud the theory being that they cut through the mud and can find something to grip on at the 'bottom'. I think tyres have got wider as pressures have lowered - I run mine at about 20-25 psi or 10psi on the Pugsley but that has 3.8" tyres

[bikenrrd]

I MTB a fair bit and have gravitated towards Maxxis tyres recently, after using Contis for a while and also the ubiquitous Panaracer Fire XC Pro.

For the real depth of winter mud I have Maxxis Medusas, which work well when it's really claggy and aren't too bad on roads and hardpack.  In general, a mud tyre like this will shed the mud better than a non- mud tyre as the knobbles are more widely spaced.

What I would recommend more though is the Maxxis Advantages.  These are available in a variety of sizes and compounds.  I use 2.25 MaxxPro 60a, but you'd probably be better served by the 2.1 70a, but they also do a 62a.  The lower the compound number the grippier the tyre (especially over roots and rocks), but the higher the rolling resistance and the lower the durability.  The Advantage has reasonably wide spaced knobbles, which shed the mud quite well, and a quick rolling centre strip, along with a nice predictable profile (round - unlike some square profiled Contis).

I have some 42a Swamp Things for riding at Aston Hill in the filth.  Cycling these on the road is a soul sapping endeavour as they are big, heavy and soft.

Tyres are both the most interesting and boring topic in MTB!

[bobb]

I've thought about starting a thread about MTB tyres before, but never bothered as hardly anyone ever seems to come to this board!

In my experience, cheapo MTB tyres give good p*ncture resistance, but next to no grip. The more expensive tyres give much better grip and sod all p*ncture protection!

I've thrashed various BSOs with cheap tyres through the woods with a p*ncture count not much above zero for years. As soon as I got something half decent with more expensive tyres, I was fixing flats several times a week! Thorns being the main offenders.

The thing is, once you've ridden with tyres that offer good grip, you really don't want to go back to anything else.

I've settled with Nobby Nics as I quite like them and they seem to offer a decent amount of grip. However, they are prone to p*nctures IME so I started using Panaracer Flataway liners towards the end of last summer. I cannot recommend these highly enough! I've only had one flat since and that was a massive thorn that would have gone through pretty much anything.

I always used to mock people who used tyre liners of any sort (I have no idea why!) but these are excellent. I personnaly don't notice any difference in the feel of the tyre when using them (apart from a slightly different noise on tarmac) so they are a great way of making a nice grippy tyre that is otherwise useless against anything vaguely sharp a really good tyre....

[clarion]

Are they like traditional tyreliners, sitting in a flat band between tyre & tube?  I would have thought MTBs would need more sidewall protection.  But sounds like they are effective anyway.

[PaulF]

Another 'remedy' for p*ntures is to go tubeless.  I've been running my MTB tubeless for about 6 months without a visitation, another benefit is that you can run lower pressures without risk of snakebite

[bobb]

Are they like traditional tyreliners, sitting in a flat band between tyre & tube?  I would have thought MTBs would need more sidewall protection.  But sounds like they are effective anyway.

Yes, they are as you describe.

I've had two trashed tyres in the last year - both sent to wherever tyres go when they die with massive holes in the sidewalls. I don't think any type of protection would have saved them. One was a huge piece of very sharp flint, the other was a rusty piece of metal sticking out of the trail!

Apart from those two incidents, every single one of the many flats I had before using the liners were thorns straight through the top of the tyre...

[bobb]

Another 'remedy' for p*ntures is to go tubeless.  I've been running my MTB tubeless for about 6 months without a visitation, another benefit is that you can run lower pressures without risk of snakebite

I like the sound of tubeless, but what happens it you do get a flat? How do you fix it?

[clarion]

AIUI, you put a load of slime in the tyre.  I saw someone doing it last time we were in BikePlus.  It was very very messy.

[bikenrrd]

I haven't gone tubeless, but Clarion is right - you put a load of latex fluid in the tyre.  I don't think it has to be messy if you get a good method for doing it.
If the fluid doesn't seal the tyre you can pop an innertube in.

[PhilO]

And if you get a hole that is too big for the latex to seal, then you slap a tube in. 

No snakebites is a bit of a myth... I experimented with tubeless on my rear tyre (mainly to avoid having to remove the Alfin wheel) and got 3 snakebites *through the tyre sidewall* in 6 months.  Ho hum!

[PaulF]

The idea is that you put the latex in when you fit the tyre. I remove the valve core and use a special syringe, not really very messy. As others have said if that fails you fit a tube.

[phil d]

Thanks for the responses.  The comments on tubeless are interesting.  I notice my Kendas are described as tubeless, though they were supplied (on the bike) with tubes.  I assume I need a special valve to make them tubeless.  Anything else?  Do the beads have to be glued?  Can pretty much any modern MTB tyres be run tubeless, or is it a quality restricted to specific lines?

[phil d]

I think tyres have got wider as pressures have lowered - I run mine at about 20-25 psi

I've probably been running mine at too high a pressure!  When I was on 1.75" nobblies I used about 50psi (maybe a bit more), and hadn't thought that might be too much at 2.1".  My experience with road tyres should have told me this.  I'm a big guy (95kg) but I suppose 40psi is probably enough.

[PaulF]

Thanks for the responses.  The comments on tubeless are interesting.  I notice my Kendas are described as tubeless, though they were supplied (on the bike) with tubes.  I assume I need a special valve to make them tubeless.  Anything else?  Do the beads have to be glued?  Can pretty much any modern MTB tyres be run tubeless, or is it a quality restricted to specific lines?

They're probably 'tubeless ready' rather than tubeless. To go tubeless you can either go 'ghetto' (google "ghetto tubeless") where you line the rim with a cut up inner tube or you can buy a rim strip that is a rubber rim tape that includes a valve. Then basically mount the tyre - it may need a blast of CO2 - deflate, add some fluid and reinflate.

[GraemeMcC]

As a side issue, I've found Marathons extremely difficult to get on and off

Hi folks, new to this section too, with a Spec Carve pro h/tail 29er to play with now 

But re: the Marathons, there is a video demo done by the gents at Spa Cycles which shows how to fit Schwalbes without levers in a few minutes!
Needs 2 old toestraps and a bit of cunning bead alignment.
Can't access the link from here (at work) but google to Spa or for the You-Tube clip.

So that just leaves getting them off without wrecking the rims with a metal tyre lever! 

[Phil W]

Another 'remedy' for p*ntures is to go tubeless.  I've been running my MTB tubeless for about 6 months without a visitation, another benefit is that you can run lower pressures without risk of snakebite

I've run tubeless just over 6 years. One visitation in all that time. Proper ust rims mind as they came on the ex demo bike I bought.

[Phil W]

Oh and you can fix tubeless tyre punctures using the same technique as cars. No need to even take tyre off rim. Only had to do it once though....

[Wobbly]

I've settled with Nobby Nics as I quite like them and they seem to offer a decent amount of grip. However, they are prone to p*nctures IME so I started using Panaracer Flataway liners towards the end of last summer. I cannot recommend these highly enough! I've only had one flat since and that was a massive thorn that would have gone through pretty much anything.

I always used to mock people who used tyre liners of any sort (I have no idea why!) but these are excellent. I personnaly don't notice any difference in the feel of the tyre when using them (apart from a slightly different noise on tarmac) so they are a great way of making a nice grippy tyre that is otherwise useless against anything vaguely sharp a really good tyre....

A You Tube vid that's possibly relevant to the discussion....

Panaracer flataway puncture resistant kevlar tape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMeEJSqierw