Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: The Seldom Killer on 02 December, 2015, 04:28:46 pm
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I know there's one off-road event down in Cornwall (Mines & Mineral Railways) but I was just wondering if there were any others out there.
Also, are there any other regulations related to off-road events (times/distances etc)? I thought I saw some a long time ago but can't see anything on the website.
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Not to Audax rules but the bare bones 200 has been mentioned elsewhere on YACF
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Yeah, I'm familiar with the range of bikepacking stuff. Was just wondering of Audaxing did anything more as a bit more social/civilised as a precurser to that sort of thing. Given the way bikepacking is taking off and the development of off-road networks, I reckon this is the sort of area where audax could serve riders who aren't averse to departing from the tarmac.
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I rode an AUK off-road brevet about a decade ago when they were slightly more popular. It might be worth contacting the Rough Stuff Fellowship as most of the off-road brevet organisers were RSF members. From memory, the events were quite short, nothing beyond a nominal 100km.
There are a couple of alternative approaches. Audax Oz run a few off-road brevets with 10km/h minimum speeds and short distances (as low as 35km), mostly following the AUK model.
Audax Oz also run a few 'mixed terrain' brevets that combine dirt and asphalt roads and are standard brevet distances and speeds. These are inspired by RUSA's similar brevets.
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I can think of a couple that use some traffic free cycle trails in the Peak District but they are mostly on road...
"Knockerdown" 200km Starting from: Hulme End , nr Hartington
"Venetian Nights" 200km Starting from: Broken Cross , nr Macclesfield
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Again, not an audax, but an off-road 200:
http://dirtyreiver.co.uk/
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There. Use to be a 50km from denmead using the southdowns and a old railway line. I have thought about reviving it.
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This quote has been lifted from the CTC website,"Cyclists have a right to ride on bridleways, byways and restricted byways, which make up around 22% of the Rights of Way (RoW) network in England and Wales."
They're also allowed to use "BOATs", (byways open to all traffic).
So it would seem an option for all but "compulsory route" events, to potentially have a considerable amount of-off road. Of course, whether the off road actually proves to be effective is another matter.
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Graeme and I had the idea of a route following the old Rosedale line, up and down Ingleby Incline to the Lion on Blakey Ridge - it's a lovely flat run over the top of the watershed at the top, and there's just the one hill (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ingleby+incline+profile&client=safari&biw=1593&bih=804&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBh_WF773JAhUEox4KHV2iC4wQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=ingleby+incline), so no one could complain.
We'll market it as a Brevet Unpopulaire.
The only problems are finding a start/finish point, and the likelihood that riders would be coming down the Incline at the same time as others are going up :o :o
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There's a sportive 'round these parts that, whilst not an Audax, might feed into your thinkings:
http://cycleclassics.co.uk/tour-of-the-black-country-sportive/tour-of-the-black-country-course-details/
"includes 19 unpaved sectors varying in length from 600m to 1800m, all of which are passable on a standard road bike"
also
"with a variety of French foods (croissants, pains aux raisins, crepes, etc.), coffee and a glass of Champagne for every finisher."
so sounds reasonably social/civilised!
We'll market it as a Brevet Unpopulaire.
;D ;D ;D
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While not off-road as such, about 40k of iddu's Old Roads and Drove Roads (http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/15-290/) aren't exactly on-road - standard controls and timings though.
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I can think of a couple that use some traffic free cycle trails in the Peak District but they are mostly on road...
"Knockerdown" 200km Starting from: Hulme End , nr Hartington
"Venetian Nights" 200km Starting from: Broken Cross , nr Macclesfield
I have decided to reduce drastically my road-riding. To this end I developed an Audax-style 200k using all the old rail lines from the above events. It has about 20 or so miles of road, in four short stages. I trialled this in August or September, when it was easily doable for me in 11.5 hours and on 23s and I'd been off the bike for 5 months following white-van induced surgery. It was a couple of k short, so I've fixed that and will sort out how to get a DIY by gps ratified and let you know about the route when I've seen if I've got it right. It should be pretty fast for most people, because, although the surfaces can be draggy and there are long uphill stretches, they are very gradual, because they were railways.
I doubt if I want it to be a calendar event because, while John's events are perfect in their use of railways, mine uses about 170k and a mass event might be completely anti-social and counter-productive under such circumstances.
C & A, if you are doing Dolgellau, I'll see you then!
Peter
PS I've also worked out two or three others, which use even less road, involving canal banks and Sustrans trails. These are much closer to the time limits because of the under-wheel conditions and gates and things - and my age, go on Pete, admit it! More later.
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Peter, that sounds very interesting. I presume you use a lot of the high peak and tissington trails. Which others do you use?
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There is of course the 106 miles of the Warwickshire Ring canal towpath. There are a few places where a road detour might be necessary.
But remember, you share the path with peds, dogs and fishermen.
Its been done on a bike for charity. ( Not me, I'm not that daft. ::-) )
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Peter, that sounds very interesting. I presume you use a lot of the high peak and tissington trails. Which others do you use?
Chris, I also use Monsal and Manifold.
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I've just registered for the Dirty Reiver and will probably ride the Dorset Gravel Dash if it runs this year.
Ingleby Incline is on the list for when I'm up on the Moors some time, as 'we' bottled last time due to the skinny tyres on mates bike.
I'm always happy to ride off road on trails and stuff, just not a proper mtb'er
I've done a bit of fun riding around Derbyshire on the railways too.
Mike
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I can think of a couple that use some traffic free cycle trails in the Peak District but they are mostly on road...
"Knockerdown" 200km Starting from: Hulme End , nr Hartington
"Venetian Nights" 200km Starting from: Broken Cross , nr Macclesfield
I have decided to reduce drastically my road-riding. To this end I developed an Audax-style 200k using all the old rail lines from the above events. It has about 20 or so miles of road, in four short stages. I trialled this in August or September, when it was easily doable for me in 11.5 hours and on 23s and I'd been off the bike for 5 months following white-van induced surgery. It was a couple of k short, so I've fixed that and will sort out how to get a DIY by gps ratified and let you know about the route when I've seen if I've got it right. It should be pretty fast for most people, because, although the surfaces can be draggy and there are long uphill stretches, they are very gradual, because they were railways.
I doubt if I want it to be a calendar event because, while John's events are perfect in their use of railways, mine uses about 170k and a mass event might be completely anti-social and counter-productive under such circumstances.
I wouldnt class these as "off-road"* let alone "rough stuff", but having ridden some of those railway lines it sounds like a jolly good idea.
(I got terribly lost getting on/off them, so a pre-made route would be great!)
*not sure the best term; traffic free perhaps? Not that it really matters!
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I'll keep you posted, matt; still got a bit of tinkering to do!
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So as the answer seems to be that there's not a lot else going on, would people be interested in doing some off-road audax style rides. Along the lines of the current bikepacking scene but a bit less prescriptive and hairshirt wearing.
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It sounds fun. I would enter one.
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Having just bought a disc-braked cross bike and having a blast on the local trails (much more fun than these namby-pamby fat tyred and full sussed mountain bikes), :P I would be up for doing some on/off road audax style events. Perhaps it might be possible to organise some events that include off-road (perhaps shorter) alternative sections. Then you are not excluding those that want to ride on road bikes or there's a bail out option in cases of bad weather! :thumbsup:
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Hmm ...
I rode Iddu's Salisbury Plain adventure (and enjoyed it), but wouldn't ride it in bad conditions. I would if I had a suitable bike!
For me it needs to be an interesting route. Not just going off-road for the purpose of avoiding roads and getting muddy (which is what MTB-riding often seems to be about!). The gravel tracks we've seen used on many recent continental routes appeal - muddy UK bridleways less so.
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I've just registered for the Dirty Reiver and will probably ride the Dorset Gravel Dash if it runs this year.
Ingleby Incline is on the list for when I'm up on the Moors some time, as 'we' bottled last time due to the skinny tyres on mates bike.
I'm always happy to ride off road on trails and stuff, just not a proper mtb'er
I've done a bit of fun riding around Derbyshire on the railways too.
Mike
I've registered for the Dirty Reiver too (along with a small number from Audax Ecosse)
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I really enjoyed the inaugural Vallycat (http://valleycat.cc/), which is basically an audax where you only get given the list of controls at the start and have to plan your own route. Mostly on road, but with off-road shortcuts allowed (hints supplied on the info sheet), and the controls are structured to encourage these. I got lost on one of these and ended up having to slide down a MTB trail through the forest, but still beats riding up Bwich on fixed: http://free-route.org/vc1/riders/icornell#zoom=13&lat=51.6978&lon=-3.6378
I believe Mike Hall is planning a longer one in the spring as it also functions as a training ride for TCR.
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I do want to organise some off-road 'brevet unpopulaire' rides with Deano but my timetable has been relentless for the last 18 months. I'm sure we'll return to this.
PubA to PubB to PubA seem most likely...
Peter I would be interested in trying out one of your routes some time.
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Why not just plan a notionally on road Audax in South Oxfordshire. Given the council's attitude to road repairs you'll get an off road experience combined with the added bonus of being on a road
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I do want to organise some off-road 'brevet unpopulaire' rides with Deano but my timetable has been relentless for the last 18 months. I'm sure we'll return to this.
PubA to PubB to PubA seem most likely...
Peter I would be interested in trying out one of your routes some time.
Are you and Dean fancying the Dirty Reiver?
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I do want to organise some off-road 'brevet unpopulaire' rides with Deano but my timetable has been relentless for the last 18 months. I'm sure we'll return to this.
PubA to PubB to PubA seem most likely...
Peter I would be interested in trying out one of your routes some time.
Are you and Dean fancying the Dirty Reiver?
Need to get in quick - facebook post this morning said that there are only 20 places left
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Never heard of it until now, Dale!
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Never heard of it until now, Dale!
About 12 entries left
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Would be interested in an off-road audax, can't make the DR200 unfortunately.
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I think the new DIY by GPX follow the exact track method will suit these kind of rides well. It's also something I would like to do - being a bit of a ex MTBer I like those wild nasty lane-strewn rides you can get in East Anglia and would love to do more explicitly off-road-road events. I even thought of a silly name for them - mudax. I can see us building up a nice run of 200s in that format, still playing to strict rules time and distance rules so that they wouldn't be anymore work for the DIY organisers....
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I think people may possibly be underestimating just how hard it will be to complete a 200k audax in the time limit, if it is mostly off-road. I've worked out one in the Peaks, as I've said, which uses almost exclusively rail trails and is easily manageable but would be less so at busy times. I've worked out others that use things like thr Trans Pennine Trail or canal/rail track NCN 66 and others. These put you right up against the stops because they are bitty, with gates, canal run-off cobbles, cobbled sections at lock-gates which are like ice-rinks, when wet, other perfectly legitimate users of the trails, some thick, some not, but all requiring speed reduction and caution. All of these considerations mean you not only average a lower speed but you also suffer from the higher level of concentration required. Even if you are an inconsiderate sod on a 29er (not all are but I've met plenty) you are still going to have to be cautious now and then or you are going to die. You really need to trial these in sections. Don't just work out a course and set off, you will almost certainly fail - especially at this time of year.
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To back up the previous post, the mixed terrain brevets I've had some involvement with use a mixture of asphalt and dirt roads, so are noticeably quicker than offroad riding. They have a noticeably higher DNF rate than standard brevets of the same distance and the DNF rate dramatically increases as the distance does.
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Despite my admiration for the aspiration of those wanting to do 200km BR mudax events... The Brevet Unpopulaire format allows for quite low minimum speeds. Very important if one of the controls is a pub with a log fire.
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Yes, priorities are important!
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I think people may possibly be underestimating just how hard it will be to complete a 200k audax in the time limit, if it is mostly off-road.
Definitely. That's why I originally asked about regulations for off road riding. I thought that at one time I had seen some speed regulations for any rides that are predominantly off road. If such a thing exists, that would be a useful starting point.
To put things in perspective, the current record for the Peak ITT (http://www.selfsupporteduk.net/routes/Peak200.html), 225km, is 19h08m. A heady 11kph including stopping time. That's quite a tough trek that one. However, even though I'm thinking about something less challenging, you'd need to be thinking about closer to 20kph max and 8kph min speeds. For the modest fitness of a happy to ride 200k with an hour to spare audaxer, 130k is probably a lot closer to the equivalent distance off road for the same amount of effort.
A few different skills are needed to. For instance, you wouldn't want to be chin on the handlebars for even the nicest of off-road descents.
Of course if you are of a mind to do an off road ride and finish at a pub with a log fire, you could do worse than to join me for this toward the end of March. http://www.composite-projects.co.uk/route/peak-beast/ (http://www.composite-projects.co.uk/route/peak-beast/)
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That looks fascinating, even at a cursory glance. I assume it's going to need a mountain bike and a road bike with 28s would be unsuitable?
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The regs state that at least 50% must be off road. On my MTB I average around 16km/h off road, so a min speed of 10km/h as per BP would work. The most I've ridden in one hit off road was 150km which took us about 12 hours from memory with pub for lunch. The 50% rule would be the hard one to meet, unless you pick up one of the off road long distance cycle routes.
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That looks fascinating, even at a cursory glance. I assume it's going to need a mountain bike and a road bike with 28s would be unsuitable?
I've ridden a good chunk of it on a cyclocross bike when it was dry, there were still a few bits where walking seemed like the best option (going up and down!). The upper section around Edale/Hope/Ladybower is probably the most "technical" and better suited to a mountain bike, the Pennine bridleway and section around Chatsworth is mostly double-track or gravel road.
That route is a couple of years old, now the bridleway over Froggatt has opened, you can quite easily roll along the tops from Curbar to the Longshaw estate then drop down to the cafe at Grindleford station before re-joining the route, avoiding most of the road section around Stoney Middleton.
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Where are these "regulations" of which people speak?
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Of course if you are of a mind to do an off road ride and finish at a pub with a log fire, you could do worse than to join me for this toward the end of March. http://www.composite-projects.co.uk/route/peak-beast/ (http://www.composite-projects.co.uk/route/peak-beast/)
Please PM me more details! Everything about this sounds like my cup of tea.
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Where are these "regulations" of which people speak?
Come on Peter - regulations are a basic human right, a bit like food, water, a decent broadband connection etc. Another way to think of 'regulation' is to consider it an antonym to 'points', especially where units of measurement are insignificant - such as anything under 200km. You tease!
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Yes, priorities are important!
I think there could be an honourable DNF when a log fire, pie and beer is available at the midway control. Perhaps recognition could be offered for 50km off-road BR where more time was spent at the controls than actually riding.
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You could look into an event around the South Downs. There are very few north south tarmac roads between the A3 and the A23 and I've used gravel roads on my Audax bike in the summer to avoid busy routes - for example up the east side of the Arun valley. It would also be possible to climb Bignor Hill and then descend Stane Street. A 100kmBP could be highly entertaining and probably rack up a fair few AAA points too.
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The regs state that at least 50% must be off road. On my MTB I average around 16km/h off road, so a min speed of 10km/h as per BP would work. The most I've ridden in one hit off road was 150km which took us about 12 hours from memory with pub for lunch. The 50% rule would be the hard one to meet, unless you pick up one of the off road long distance cycle routes.
Audax Oz 'Brevet Dirt' speed:
The minimum average speed for a BD, including stops, is 10 km/hr with the maximum time being calculated by dividing the route distance, as determined by the organiser, by the minimum average speed.
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A 100kmBP could be highly entertaining and probably rack up a fair few AAA points too.
I may try and put together a 100k test event* to meet the 50% off road rule and see if there's sufficient interest.
AAA Points are going to be a tricky thing I think. 1500m of climb per 100k off road is easily a very different effort to the same on road, even on the best of well-maintained unsealed byways and rail trails.
*Such a test event would definitely not be an official audax, would not be sanctioned or run under any auspices of Audax UK, not insured and absolutely only a private excursion on publically accessible ridable trails undertaken at your own risk and recognisance. It probably would be free though.
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A 100kmBP could be highly entertaining and probably rack up a fair few AAA points too.
I may try and put together a 100k test event* to meet the 50% off road rule and see if there's sufficient interest.
AAA Points are going to be a tricky thing I think. 1500m of climb per 100k off road is easily a very different effort to the same on road, even on the best of well-maintained unsealed byways and rail trails.
*Such a test event would definitely not be an official audax, would not be sanctioned or run under any auspices of Audax UK, not insured and absolutely only a private excursion on publically accessible ridable trails undertaken at your own risk and recognisance. It probably would be free though.
http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/jayp/Lutudarum (http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/jayp/Lutudarum)
This is an official audax with 1.75 AAA. It has 54 out of 117 km of (easy) off road. I've been running it for 4 years. I'm not running it in 2016 because of NAT4 commitment. You're welcome to run it for me? :thumbsup:
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That looks ideal. Needs a bit of a tweak to bring it up over the 50% of road criteria but I can see a few options that shouldn't change the character of the route.
I think there's a New Years Ride coming on. Does anyone fancy a muddy jaunt leaving from Hassop on Jan 3rd?
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I've asked before. What is this 50% criterion? To meet which regulation? For what?!
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I've asked before. What is this 50% criterion? To meet which regulation? For what?!
The AUK regulations, 7.3. http://www.aukweb.net/official/aukregs/
(c) Off-road events have a route consisting of not less than 50% designated bridleway, byway or any other right of way open to cyclists as is acceptable to the U.K. events secretary as Off-road or Rough Stuff. The event must be designated as Off-road or Rough Stuff in the title.
You could still organise a regular audax, with some off-road sections (less than 50%). It just wouldn't be officially listed as off-road in the calendar, and it wouldn't count for any off-road awards etc.
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Thanks, Fuaran. I'm assuming the time restrictions are the same as for road events?
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They are generally BPs, so the time limits are set by the organiser.
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That looks ideal. Needs a bit of a tweak to bring it up over the 50% of road criteria but I can see a few options that shouldn't change the character of the route.
I think there's a New Years Ride coming on. Does anyone fancy a muddy jaunt leaving from Hassop on Jan 3rd?
I could be up for that. More info'? :)
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They are generally BPs, so the time limits are set by the organiser.
I was thinking of DIY 200s, of which I've roughed out several, most of which are at least 80% off road.
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I've asked before. What is this 50% criterion? To meet which regulation? For what?!
Actubobs... Wot Peter said.
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http://bike.duque.net/2013-sfr-la-ruta-loca-randonnee-mixed-terrain.htm might be an interesting read.
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Thanks, D, it was!
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They are generally BPs, so the time limits are set by the organiser.
I was thinking of DIY 200s, of which I've roughed out several, most of which are at least 80% off road.
I think if it ever got to the point where a off-road 200 were being prepared as a calendar, it would be prudent to request an adjustment of the time limits from the board.
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It should be possible to do a 200km Brevet Populaire, which would allow more relaxed speeds.
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True, but I think it should be completely reasonable to use a 200k as part of an SR series so I think it should be a BR.
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That looks ideal. Needs a bit of a tweak to bring it up over the 50% of road criteria but I can see a few options that shouldn't change the character of the route.
I think there's a New Years Ride coming on. Does anyone fancy a muddy jaunt leaving from Hassop on Jan 3rd?
I could be up for that. More info'? :)
Notionally speaking, 8am start at Hassop. I'll consult with the Mrs and check there aren't other plans afoot.
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True, but I think it should be completely reasonable to use a 200k as part of an SR series so I think it should be a BR.
I think there's no chance of a BR at less than 14.3kph. That is part of the AUK regulations, so would probably need an AGM motion to change.
I think it would be better to have some sort of separate off-road awards.
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That looks ideal. Needs a bit of a tweak to bring it up over the 50% of road criteria but I can see a few options that shouldn't change the character of the route.
I think there's a New Years Ride coming on. Does anyone fancy a muddy jaunt leaving from Hassop on Jan 3rd?
I could be up for that. More info'? :)
Notionally speaking, 8am start at Hassop. I'll consult with the Mrs and check there aren't other plans afoot.
I might be able to do this, too, though I'm not sure about the company!
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It might be worth keeping in mind that BRs may eventually swap back to the international standard of 15 km/h, rather than the current 14.3km/h.
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Thanks, D. I've no real desire to have any regulations changed. If I can't get round the course in the time, so be it. As texters might say "IJABR" !
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Thanks, D. I've no real desire to have any regulations changed. If I can't get round the course in the time, so be it. As texters might say "IJABR" !
In Joy a beer? :-\
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Thanks, D. I've no real desire to have any regulations changed. If I can't get round the course in the time, so be it. As texters might say "IJABR" !
In Joy a beer? :-\
It's Just A Bike Ride, I think.
(I think yours works better as In Beer, Joy.)
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Sabine has it, though I'm beginning to think "I'm Just a Broken Reed" might be appropriate, too!
@ Seldom Killer
I haven't got a mountain bike and I don't remember seeing one at JayP's when I last broke in. What kind of route have you got in mind? I can run to 28's and have found 23s fine on the rail trails if it's dry (the 28's were fine when it was wet).
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Insisting on a mountain bike when you go off road is a sign of weakness. :smug:
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That's the spirit!
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For Jan 3rd I'm just planning on doing the Lutudarum mostly as is but starting from Hassop. As far as I can see, it should be doable on a road bike albeit it's likely to be mucky. If you don't have tread then some of the sections may be more challenging than they would be in Summer.
I'll probably not be on my road bike because I like to keep it cleanish. If I haven't killed the cyclocross bike racing on the Friday then I'll be on that. It's a single speed so no speed heroics from me. If it isn't in good order then it'll be the 29er.
In general, I think that off-road audax routes should be optimised for cyclocross bikes at their most technical. That means they'll be doable on a road bike and definitely not demanding the capabilities of a mountain bike. I'd certainly never stipulate use of mountain bikes, only the time limit and your own sense of a challenge attempted will tell you if your choice of steed was anything less than perfect.
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For Jan 3rd I'm just planning on doing the Lutudarum mostly as is but starting from Hassop. As far as I can see, it should be doable on a road bike albeit it's likely to be mucky. If you don't have tread then some of the sections may be more challenging than they would be in Summer.
I'll probably not be on my road bike because I like to keep it cleanish. If I haven't killed the cyclocross bike racing on the Friday then I'll be on that. It's a single speed so no speed heroics from me. If it isn't in good order then it'll be the 29er.
In general, I think that off-road audax routes should be optimised for cyclocross bikes at their most technical. That means they'll be doable on a road bike and definitely not demanding the capabilities of a mountain bike. I'd certainly never stipulate use of mountain bikes, only the time limit and your own sense of a challenge attempted will tell you if your choice of steed was anything less than perfect.
Sounds good to me.
Thank God for that
YES
I've never ridden Lutudarum on anything other than 700/23 - but the anticlock' route round Carsington Water perimeter will be a challenge given recent rainfall - no worries we just take the clockwise route which is well drained.
Peter you could call at my place and over to Hassop with me.
Anybody else fancy starting the new year with a bit of comedy? :)
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IJABR: Sept'14 I rode the full Trans-Pennine Trail, 215miles, Southport - Hornsea, which is predominantly off road from Southport to Thorne, then does a bit of road (as used in the Spurn Head 400) to Hull, then off-piste again. Doable on 28c tyres (though I'd do it again on a hardtail MTB for the coarse gritty sections east of Hull which played havoc with the hands on day 3). There was a stunning bit of singletrack in the middle of the Pennines which was interesting with panniers and "skinny" tyres, particularly when trying to keep tabs with my MTB riding partner.
With pubs, a thai kitchen cafe, farm shops and the odd village, there would be plenty opportunity for controls/feeds. Could have the basis of a great ride, particularly with the North-South link sections on the eastern flanks of the Pennines which link towards Leeds and Sheffield. It would need a bit of planning methinks (but I'm not volunteering - only throwing the suggestion to the winds of chance).
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Anybody else fancy starting the new year with a bit of comedy? :)
Me!
Unfortunately we're signed up for a club ride (http://aukweb.net/events/detail/16-611/) that day.
Boo!
:(
Uncle Peter- make sure you get pictures!
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For Jan 3rd I'm just planning on doing the Lutudarum...
Interesting/interested... will have a look at options for getting to Hassop, could end up being quite an early start/long day if I have to ride out from Manchester in the morning!
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We'll be doing the route anti-clockwise so if you want to meet us at Blackwell Mill about 30 minutes later then that would be fine. At the end of the day you'll just be left with the fairly innocuous roll down the Monsal Trail back towards home.
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There. Use to be a 50km from denmead using the southdowns and a old railway line. I have thought about reviving it.
I've just spent a few mins looking at maps but can't see anything obviously circular. There's a fair few E-W routes (primarily the South Downs Way) but a dearth of N-S off road routes. The Meon Valley Trail (defunct railway line once used for pre-D-Day meetings by Churchill) is the obvious link but ideally I'd want something else to complete the route.
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It depends how high a percentage of Off Road you want, but you could get well over 110k out of following the Basingstoke Canal from Odiham then join the River Wey (North to the Thames Path and beyond) or South down the River Wey to Guildford and picking up the Downs Link to Shoreham. You could just retrace to Odiham for a 95% Off Road Experience OR go West along the South Downs Way to later get back to Odiham via some fine Hampshire lanes. But still way over 50% Off Road.
I plan to give this a go myself soon, as I fancy the challenge of completing a 200k Off Rd within the 13hr 20 mins limit when quite a lot of it will be in the dark. As most Events are circular'ish I quite enjoy there and back routes for a change. Especially where there are good quality Refreshment stops as you get to visit them twice. Also there is not the annoyance of having to ride well over distance to qualify for a minimum 200k, as you can just turn round after 100k.
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We'll be doing the route anti-clockwise so if you want to meet us at Blackwell Mill about 30 minutes later then that would be fine. At the end of the day you'll just be left with the fairly innocuous roll down the Monsal Trail back towards home.
I was toying with that idea, alternatively I'll see about staying with my parents as they're half way between and I'll get an extra hour or two in bed :thumbsup:
Now to ponder if I should dig out the knobbly tyres or stick with 35s and mudguards...
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An out-n-back calendar event along tow-paths could be pretty hilarious.
[i'd hope that the AUK risk police would notice, but you never know ... ]
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Although I appreciate the option to use them for cycle routes, I'd by reluctant to send an audax down more than a short stretch of towpath. Something about them feels like they aren't appropriate for group rides with a time limit. That's not just the risk of falling in the water.
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Although I appreciate the option to use them for cycle routes, I'd by reluctant to send an audax down more than a short stretch of towpath. Something about them feels like they aren't appropriate for group rides with a time limit. That's not just the risk of falling in the water.
My experience of towpaths from my teenage years was constantly having to stop, dismount, lift bike and step over fishing rods.
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I think you have to be familiar with the towpath in question. Some are popular cycle routes, where a few more bikes won't cause undue problems. Some are busy with pedestrians/anglers/boatists and patently unsuitable for more than small numbers of extremely patient cyclists. Some are remote tracks miles from anything interesting where the surface may be a bit technical, but cycling isn't going to cause conflict. Blind bridges, tunnels and Silly Sustrans Gates cause bottlenecks as soon as anyone's going against the flow. That sort of thing.
And of course there's some potential for manipulation of the flow by where the towpath appears in a route. Early on and you'll get large bunches of cyclists, towards the end and you may get stragglers in a hurry.
Personally, I think much of this applies to other off-road routes (bridleways, railway paths and the like). IMHO time limits should be generous enough that riders can always slow down for hikers, pootlers, dog-emptiers and so on.
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I now have to agree with the recent posts re Towpaths and Old Railway lines. I cycled 40 miles of the River Wey and Basingstoke Canal on Sunday and thoroughly enjoyed myself and was easily able to average just over 17 kph, BUT I would not recommend a large group ride or Event along any of it. As has been stated, there are just too many other users who have totally different agendas.
The Fishermen could easily be a bit deaf and decide to stand up and stretch their legs just as you pass (one did on Sunday (no-one drowned thank goodness)) or dog walkers could call their dogs and the dog(s) decide to go in the opposite direction, likewise with young children. Also most of the bridges are very low, have no line of sight and no passing room. Crossing roads OVER bridges was just as bad, as many had bad lines of sight. I was lucky that it was pretty wet, so there weren't too many people out but it was still a stop start ride all day. The thick mud also made it fun and slippery, but it may be better in the summer. No way could I have stayed upright on my 23mm tyres road bike; I only stayed upright and moving forward with 3 inch tyres ( but any MTB would have coped).
Riding on my own caused no one any problems (except the deaf Fisherman) as I was patient with all other users, but I MAY not have been so courteous if I was up against the 13 1/3 hr time limit on a 200k Event.
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Giving this a bump:-
JayP and I have been thinking that a 9.00am start should be early enough to enable us to get round with little or no dark riding, although it will probably be claggy. If it gets a bit tight, we could miss out Hulme End and turn at Wetton Mill cafe (which I think should be open). Who is still hoping to do this and what do people think about the start time? I have to get down from Rochdale, at least to JayP's, then on from there. Of course, the weather may render all this academic but I hope not!
Peter
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9am works for me. As the person currently with the least distance to travel it would be churlish for me to object. I'll bow to your experience and see you there then.
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Let's leave my experience out of this; just bowing will be fine!
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Should still be able to make it, have another interested too. How much time/km does skipping Hulme End save? Just planning how to get there/back and things...
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Ok. Missing Hulme End knocks about 9km off. It's the Calendar event Start/finish. As the first and last four k's of the calendar ride are along the same stretch of the Manifold Trail that makes Hulme End a pointless detour for us.
Peter and I will park at Wye Dale Car Park and ride down the Trail to Blackwell Cycle hire to meet up with SK (coming down from Hassop) and Andy + 1.
Is that Ok?
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Thanks, just found the map/GPX and that sense. We might end up driving over, if so we'd probably be parking there too.
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OK, I'll aim to arrive at Blackwell Cycle Centre at around 9am.
Current forecast is looking to be wet in the afternoon. As long as it doesn't get torrential, I'll see you then.
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Chaps, it looks as if Parsley Hay Cafe won't be open that day (will still be able to get water) and I'm not sure about Carsington. I'll ring Wetton and Carsington as soon as the phones are likely to be manned but it seems wise to suggest that we take stuff to eat with us, in case of no room at the inn.
peter
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Chaps, it looks as if Parsley Hay Cafe won't be open that day (will still be able to get water) and I'm not sure about Carsington. I'll ring Wetton and Carsington as soon as the phones are likely to be manned but it seems wise to suggest that we take stuff to eat with us, in case of no room at the inn.
peter
Wetton Mill is open :) http://heycafes.co.uk/01406864/Wetton_Mill_Tea_Rooms (http://heycafes.co.uk/01406864/Wetton_Mill_Tea_Rooms)
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Great!
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All faffed and fettled ready for tomorrow. Will be getting to Hassop around 8:15 and arriving at Blackwell a bit before 9am. Look forward to meeting you there.
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All faffed and fettled ready for tomorrow. Will be getting to Hassop around 8:15 and arriving at Blackwell a bit before 9am. Look forward to meeting you there.
Ok. Peter and I are still up for it - (we may consider our options at Wetton Mill ;D)
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Bit late but I can't make it tomorrow :( had my lift back out on me earlier and been unable to sort anything. Hope it's a good ride and look forward to hearing how you get on, still keen to have a go at the route soon...
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Thanks for letting us know, andy. Hope to see you soon.
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Back from today's endeavours in the nigh tropical conditions in the Peak District. JayP, Peter and myself all earning multiple Audax Amphibious Award points (AAA for short). Watch this space for a Super Grenouiller ride near you.
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You toad! Glad you got back safely. I'll try and get a few pictures sorted out later. Thanks for the company on a very silly excursion!
peter
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Pics!
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Pics!
Pics (some) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.757183501048231.1073741839.130868713679716&type=3&uploaded=17
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Looking at those pics I think you need some wider tyres!
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Pics!
Pics (some) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.757183501048231.1073741839.130868713679716&type=3&uploaded=17
Needs a Facebook account :(
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Working here without one... and I agree with Torslanda.
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Mudax!
You all seemed really happy to be out - some great photos.
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Funny. On this computer, no FB login prompt.
Looks like a super day out. Interesting mix of road surfaces - but they all look usable. Round here it would be mud.
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That does look very enjoyable. :thumbsup:
And it works without a facebuk ac.
Wider tyres? Don't seem to be necessary but would probably help. Depends how willing you are to walk. :D
Super Grenouiller is a wonderful description.
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I find that on surfaces like the one in the first photo, wide tyres (and sproingy bikes) are mostly about how willing you are to lose the feeling in your fingers for the next couple of days. It's mud where they really become an alternative to walking.
Of course it's not true Comedy Off-Roading unless you do it on a Mildly Inappropriate Bike. :thumbsup:
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The comedy off-roading involved mildly inappropriate footwear, rather than bikes. Report soon.
PS We saw some sheep that looked just like recumbents from the right angle.
Edit: Report here:-
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=95119.msg1967822#msg1967822
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I was out on 32c Schwalbe CX Pros and they were fine except for one stretch where I would have preferred to have the wide tyres of the 29er. A bit draggy on the road sections though so YMMV.
For my next excursion, I'm contemplating picking up the Trans-Pennine-Trail in Oughtibridge and taking it to Glossop with a return by Hayfield, the Pennine Way to Barber Booth, into Hope and threading through Bamford, Strines and Bradfield to finish.
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Great ride report, looks like I missed a good day out :(
TSK - sounds like a good route, there are some nice bits connecting Glossop > Hope, although some might be more appropriate on a mountain bike at this time of year...
When are you thinking of riding over? Might be tricky for me to get to Oughtibridge, but could try and catch you near Glossop and tag along for a while...
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I'll not be doing it until we've had at least a couple of drier weeks. I've a few other things I'm doing on the MTB in the wetter stuff. I'll update here.
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Digging up this thread - how rough is too rough? I've plotted a fantastic route which is about 100 km from Northallerton, or a bit overdistance from my likely start/finish point. Includes Thornton-le-Beans and other places with names nearly as good.
However - the track up Monket House Bank between Farndale and Bransdale is much rougher than I remember, as it's popular with 4x4s and scrambling bikes. It's safe to walk, but you'd have to be a very strong rider or on a MTB to ride it. I was overgeared and underskilled, but once up on top, it was glorious, despite the rain. The photos don't show the worst of the climb - it was pissing down, so I was reluctant to dig out my phone.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5488/30546058565_9220d3142c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Nxfx1a)
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5514/30429356332_85aeca5e41_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NmWpuG)
There's also a really tricky descent to the hidden valley of Bransdale:
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5455/29909054693_5f1b1f52d7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MyXHWM)
However, after that it's pretty much ridable on anything, though narrow tyres would be a bit squirmy.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5480/30546107665_c6beecc2c0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NxfMAH)
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5546/30546115695_071f46c4da_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NxfPZa)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8622/29912901073_82b0f9324a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MzirkF)
I'm tempted to put it on the calendar, and just give people loads of advice about alternatives to dodge the nearly-unridable bit between Farndale and Bransdale (which is pretty easy along quiet lanes, but longer and probably hillier). I reckon it'll live up to the Brevet Unpopulaire tag ;D
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Looks fine to me. Off-road audaxes don't have to be rideable on road bikes. In fact, I advise people not to use road bikes on mine.
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JayP and I just did my Off-Peak Return 200, which used all the Peak rail trails, twice. There were about twenty miles of road in different bits to connect the trails. It was claggy so we had to keep an eye on the time but generally the trails are fine in most weathers. There's even a 1 in 8 on one of them! There might even be a report in Arrivee soon about my 200 along Route 66, mostly canals and ex-rails.
I don't think you have to worry about times for a 100 do you? So that looks like great fun.
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JayP and I just did my Off-Peak Return 200, which used all the Peak rail trails, twice
Is there a map?
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Also interested in the routes, Peter. As DIY GPS if they're not going to be calendar events.
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Yes, there is a map; I'll dig it out for you later.
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I don't think you have to worry about times for a 100 do you? So that looks like great fun.
I'd set a minimum speed of 10 kph, and some might need it. It was great fun (at an overall average of about 15 kph including riding up Blakey Ridge from York), and everyone loves offroad climbs at gradients of 1:4, right? ;D
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Looks fine to me. Off-road audaxes don't have to be rideable on road bikes. In fact, I advise people not to use road bikes on mine.
Hi Cyclops,
Can you give us a link to your route please? I fancy a go over winter, and I was busy at the time you ran it.
Cheers, Dave C
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Not my patch, but has anyone thought about using the road between Pontrhydfendigaid and Rhayader, via the Claerwen dam, on an audax?
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Not my patch, but has anyone thought about using the road between Pontrhydfendigaid and Rhayader, via the Claerwen dam, on an audax?
Oh c'mon!! These are not real words/names surely??
;)
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Deano that looks fantastic. I'd love to see more of this sort of thing on the calendar - maybe I should get off my put together a peak district route along those lines.
What sort of ratio of road / off road did you have?
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I don't think you have to worry about times for a 100 do you? So that looks like great fun.
I'd set a minimum speed of 10 kph, and some might need it. It was great fun (at an overall average of about 15 kph including riding up Blakey Ridge from York), and everyone loves offroad climbs at gradients of 1:4, right? ;D
Yes, I do!
On foot and without a bike to push...
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Also interested in the routes, Peter. As DIY GPS if they're not going to be calendar events.
JayP and I just did my Off-Peak Return 200, which used all the Peak rail trails, twice
Is there a map?
I recorded a gpx track-log of the ride. (So did Peter but then he lost his logger.)
You can download my tracklog here http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/jayp/OffPeakReturn/download
or just view it in OS here http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/jayp/OffPeakReturn
It's a bit confusing coz we double tracked everything. The order of events was:
Start Wye Dale Car Park- to Bakewell on Monsal and back.
Over to HPT via King Sterndale then HPT to High Peak Junction (Nr Cromford) and back as far as Parsley Hay.
South on Tissington Trail to Ashbourne over to Waterhouses via Blore and up Manifold Trail to Hulme End.
From Hulme End retrace to Waterhouses and back to Trail at Ashbourne Via Swinscoe
Finally all the way up Tissington Trail to the bitter end near Earl Sterndale and back to Wye Dale car park via Cow Dale.
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Deano that looks fantastic. I'd love to see more of this sort of thing on the calendar - maybe I should get off my put together a peak district route along those lines.
What sort of ratio of road / off road did you have?
I think the route will be about 25% offroad. I could add more, but they're all natural shortcuts, which I like, and I like the easy start i've planned. Adding more would turn it into a monster.
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The Off-Peak Return 200 that JayP and I did is at least 75% off-road but it isn't gnarly, like Dean's proposed 100, just not tarmaced. In fact, as we say round here, "You'll be fine on 23s!"
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The Off-Peak Return 200 that JayP and I did is at least 75% off-road but it isn't gnarly, like Dean's proposed 100, just not tarmaced. In fact, as we say round here, "You'll be fine on 23s!"
I wonder if "traffic-free" would be a less confusing term. (are these the Peak District railway lines you're talking about? The bits I've used are a better surface than most English roads!)
One of the problems of this sort of audaciousness is classification. "off-road" covers a whole range of conditions, putting uncertainty into riders' minds about what equipment/skills they need. On a "regular" event, you might prefer certain kit for certain roads, but it's perfectly feasible to use any road-bike on any UK event*.
*That is of course an open challenge for riders to quote hideous sections from some event!
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Having found that 44mm Snoqualmie Pass tyres fit my steel bike, I'm well up for some of this. They roll great at 40psi. Recommended for anyone venturing on mixed terrain.
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....
One of the problems of this sort of audaciousness is classification. "off-road" covers a whole range of conditions, putting uncertainty into riders' minds about what equipment/skills they need. On a "regular" event, you might prefer certain kit for certain roads, but it's perfectly feasible to use any road-bike on any UK event*.
*That is of course an open challenge for riders to quote hideous sections from some event!
OK I'll bite ;D I didn't do the ride but it's one of my regular MTB routes. Not sure that the last section from the Ridgeway to Sparsholt on the Old Roads (I think) qualifies for any road bike!
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@ mattc
Matt, semantically, it's a moot point: it is not on roads, therefore it is off road, although traffic-free is also a fair description. I think off road is a perfectly satisfactory definintion in cycling terms, as we have "rough stuff" (and that has an honourable and ancient history in cycling) to describe the gnarlier stuff. But I'm not bothered really! I suppose it might become a talking point if this type of riding were ever to become an official sub (or super) section of rides. Certainly, "traffic-free" would represent a big attraction for many riders. Then again, experience shows that offering a ride that contains a lot of trails puts off people who are not used to having to wash their bikes!
Peter
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People who are not used to having to wash their bikes must only ride in summer and even then only on main roads! Or else they have someone to do it for them...
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People who are not used to having to wash their bikes must only ride in summer and even then only on main roads! Or else they have someone to do it for them...
Very true.
But define "trails"! Even that covers a multitude of surfaces. I honestly think that describing an event as "off-road", and without further info, would put off twice as many riders as it attracts. I don't want to have an argument; except that if we do have one, it will prove my point that classifications can be problematic :P
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I think the pragmatic answer is to provide further info, or at least sufficient details of the route that specifics of the conditions can be sought elsewhere.
And it's best if that's done in a "the surface is like this" way rather than "suitable for this kind of bike" way, as riders will have their own tolerances and skills. (For example, I'm perfectly capable of riding on hard-packed coarse gravel on a rigid bike with normal audax/touring tyres, but if I do more than a couple of kilometres of that my wrists will hate me for the rest of the week. If I knew a route involved large amounts of it I'd probably use wider tyres or even a MTB, in spite of not needing the extra grip.)
Similarly, "traffic free" means you don't have to deal with cars, but says nothing about the wandering children and dogs factor. On popular trails that can limit your speed more than technical surfaces.
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Having found that 44mm Snoqualmie Pass tyres fit my steel bike, I'm well up for some of this. They roll great at 40psi. Recommended for anyone venturing on mixed terrain.
You probably need to get well first
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But if a calender event entry provided a link to an external site with photos like those above, there'd be no confusion and it would be pretty clear what sort of terrain was on offer.
I think the more problematic part would be controls on a longer route.
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But if a calender event entry provided a link to an external site with photos like those above, there'd be no confusion and it would be pretty clear what sort of terrain was on offer.
Yes; it's not an insoluble problem. :thumbsup:
(still extra effort and things-to-do than organising a road event)
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Well, there's at least one more of these in the calendar now...
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=100815.0
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"Brevet Unpopulaire" :D :thumbsup: