Author Topic: Turbo Trainer  (Read 7480 times)

Jonah

  • Audax Club Hackney
Turbo Trainer
« on: 20 September, 2015, 03:03:58 pm »
There appear to be shed-loads of models available - please could anybody suggest a decent one so I don't waste my money?

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #1 on: 20 September, 2015, 08:41:02 pm »
Most people buy one and put up with it, I think! :)
Here's a very good buyers guide.  A bit US-centric but I think if you pick your budget and buy Ray's recommendation you could do a lot worse.
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/11/2014-winter-trainer-recommendations.html

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #2 on: 20 September, 2015, 08:44:57 pm »
Ray's based in Paris, so his recommendations definitely reference what's available in Europe. Also, if you buy through his site you can get some useful discounts. His reviews are very, very thorough, but he rarely looks at cheap stuff.

simonp

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #3 on: 20 September, 2015, 10:05:02 pm »
Kickr is really good piece of kit. I use it far more than I ever used my old turbo.

Jonah

  • Audax Club Hackney
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #4 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:09:29 am »
Thanks very much folks (also been looking at a Tacx - any good?)

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #5 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:31:31 am »
Kickr is really good piece of kit. I use it far more than I ever used my old turbo.
And it's only £900!


marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #6 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:35:30 am »
Presumably Jonah will want something that doesn't need a geared bike (Kickr needs a parallelogram equipped bike), unless there's a dirty secret hiding in the back of his shed?.....

I used a Tacx Bushido - it was good, but I hated it and prefer to be cold, wet and miserable rather than hot, wet and very miserable.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #7 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:39:51 am »
There is a new, cheaper and more conventional (wheel-driven, so fixed/single-speed compatible) version of the Wahoo Kickr - the Snap Smart, which is about £600. Not cheap by most standards, but very capable and excellent in combination with Zwift, TrainerRoads, Sufferfest etc.

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #8 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:40:10 am »
Okay, rather than just recommend a web site, I'll recommend a type of trainer.
The key to good training with a turbo trainer is consistency of setup.  So, you want to pump the tyre up to the same pressure each time and adjust the tension of the tyre onto the roller at the exact same level each time.  The first of these is easy, the second not so easy.  Which is why I like the type of turbo I have.

It's an Elite Supercrono PowerMag and, rather than having a fixed triangle to hold the wheel, it is hinged.  This means that the pressure of the wheel on the tyre comes from the user's weight, not from a tension dial.  So, as long as you don't fluctuate in weight too much, the tension of the tyre onto the roller should be consistent between work outs.

I don't know if I'd recommend my exact model of trainer, though.  It has too much plastic and the cable snapped off inside which was then a pain to open and reattach a new cable.  I'd probably buy one without a cable now - such as the Power Fluid version of this trainer.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #9 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:43:26 am »
I have the BKool turbo, which also uses body weight to provide the wheel/roller friction. It's ok when seated, but it definitely does not work when standing as your weight transfers forward and the tyre will slip on the roller, which is very frustrating!

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #10 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:43:47 am »
Most people hate the turbo, and there are, like exercise bikes, way more turbos sitting unused in lofts than being regularly ridden.

If I were you I'd buy the cheapest non-shit one you can find on ebay, and then if it turns out you're one of the few who can stomach it, sell it and buy a good one. There's no point in dropping £500+ on a decent one if you ride it twice and get no benefit from it.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #11 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:48:41 am »
I found that rollers gave me a much greater feeling of 'riding the bike', and the Elite Arione Digital I settled on have a degree of wireless resistance variability. Sadly, their Private Ant system means that the resistance can't be controlled by the apps I mentioned above, but a more basic set can be used using the 'virtual power' system. Of course, if you have a power meter then any turbo or roller can be used with those apps (Zwift converts power to speed appropriate for the gradient vice varying the turbo resistance, for example).


rob

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #13 on: 21 September, 2015, 01:04:41 pm »
Question for you Jonah.   Are you going to fit one of your fixed bikes on there ?

If so issues I found were :-

- 120mm spaced frames won't clamp down in the jaws of the turbo which are designed to hold a road wheel with a QR skewer.   You can buy some adaptors from Tacx which were something like 15 quid.   They are oversized track nuts and will work with normal track hubs and not those with screw in bolts (Goldtec, Phil Wood).

- The fluid based trainers have increased resistance the faster your back wheel travels.   Geared riders achieve this by changing gear and cadence to get the right level of workout.   If you intend to use fixed and don't want to piss about changing sprockets as you get fitter then you need some sort of resistance to get a hard enough workout.

I bought a second hand elite fluid turbo with 5 resistance settings that work magnetically.   On a 68" gear I could only just do intervals on setting number 4.   I have never used setting 5.

Enjoy....

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #14 on: 21 September, 2015, 07:36:13 pm »
Taxc Swing suitable for fixed as it has different resistance settings.

simonp

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #15 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:14:25 pm »
Kickr Snap would in theory be suitable for fixed as it has electronically controlled resistance. I just use a geared bike for trainer work as things stand.

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #16 on: 21 September, 2015, 10:24:53 pm »
Kickr Snap would in theory be suitable for fixed as it has electronically controlled resistance.

Can you override it or change it?

simonp

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #17 on: 21 September, 2015, 11:12:53 pm »
Kickr Snap would in theory be suitable for fixed as it has electronically controlled resistance.

Can you override it or change it?

It’s similar to the Kickr, it has various modes. One is Erg mode where you have to produce a specific output. This means that if your cadence drops you have to push harder on the pedals. In this mode it doesn’t seem to matter which gear you select on a geared bike.

Another mode is resistance mode where you select from a number of levels. In these the work-rate is set by how hard you work. I think there’s also slope mode which simulates riding up a gradient.

In all these modes, it’s controlled from a smartphone or PC app. I use TrainerRoad in Erg mode almost exclusively; the only time I’m not in Erg mode is when doing a fitness test, in which case the effort level is set by how hard I can ride.

In TrainerRoad, when doing one of the workouts, if it’s too hard (or too easy), you can adjust the intensity of the workout in real time. There are other apps available, I only have experience of TrainerRoad.

Jonah

  • Audax Club Hackney
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #18 on: 22 September, 2015, 06:03:24 am »
OMG - I've created a monster...

“A flash of lightning illuminated the turbo-trainer and discovered its shape plainly to me; its gigantic stature, and the deformity of its aspect, more hideous than belongs to humanity, instantly informed me that it was the wretch, the filthy demon to whom I had given life.”

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #19 on: 22 September, 2015, 08:23:54 am »
To expand on Simon's post, TrainerRoad (or similar) can control the resistance of the Kickr to achieve a specific power (which is set relative to your tested threshold power) so you follow the selected workout demands exactly. There's no need to adjust anything on the fly. TR can be used in conjunction with Sufferfest (or other) videos to produce structured workouts that have a degree of entertainment.  Some other manufacturers have now enabled the Open Ant protocol so that their trainers can be similarly controlled -  Tacx, Elite Real, CompuTrainer. None of these are cheap, but the interactivity makes it far more likely you'll use them!

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #20 on: 22 September, 2015, 09:08:59 am »
I’m waiting for an electrically braked turbo trainer where the user goes out on their real bike and does a coastdown test. The user inputs the times between speed gates and the machine’s software generates a polynomial expression to control wattage absorbed per speed.

When a hill is required, the software uses the vehicle’s mass to adjust the absorption of the brake.

When the unit knows the Distance/Elevation profile of a route, the machine adjusts the absorption accordingly. If higher workloads are required, ride faster.

The motor industry has only being doing this for thirty years.

Unless anyone out there knows of one.

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #21 on: 20 November, 2015, 10:59:53 am »
This is a brilliant thread and definitely what I need to read regarding my genesis day one single speed. I take i'll need some extensions so it can clamp the wheel solidly?

i am thinking of getting this one : http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-crono-fluid-elastogel-trainer/

along with.... http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tacx/axle-nuts-m10-x-1-ec042692 ?

rob

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #22 on: 20 November, 2015, 11:18:38 am »
This is a brilliant thread and definitely what I need to read regarding my genesis day one single speed. I take i'll need some extensions so it can clamp the wheel solidly?

i am thinking of getting this one : http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-crono-fluid-elastogel-trainer/

along with.... http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tacx/axle-nuts-m10-x-1-ec042692 ?

I have both, but picked the turbo up second hand.   I'm running 48*17 and rarely use a resistance level higher than 2.   A few people have said they've noticed resistance drop off when it gets hot, but I've not seen the same.

Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #23 on: 20 November, 2015, 11:24:03 am »
Thanks for the reply! I'll just have to wait till pay day next Wednesday and I'll get the lot and start zwifting at nights....

hmm just remembered my tires for the single is rather wide and thick. Have to change that as well.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Turbo Trainer
« Reply #24 on: 20 November, 2015, 12:26:13 pm »
This is a brilliant thread and definitely what I need to read regarding my genesis day one single speed. I take i'll need some extensions so it can clamp the wheel solidly?

i am thinking of getting this one : http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-crono-fluid-elastogel-trainer/

along with.... http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tacx/axle-nuts-m10-x-1-ec042692 ?

I have both, but picked the turbo up second hand.   I'm running 48*17 and rarely use a resistance level higher than 2.   A few people have said they've noticed resistance drop off when it gets hot, but I've not seen the same.

I have the Elite Fluid, a very good turbo but it doesn't have resistance settings, you change the resistance by selecting different gears, so maybe not the best for riding fixed or SS