HI VIZ

[Kim]

My colour vision is utterly pants (but I'm not yet in my 70s, so Dim's OK there).  It doesn't affect my driving or cycling.  As Kim says, the reflective cats eye things on slip roads are a different colour to other ones, so I've been told.  I've never been able to detect that, but it's not a problem.

I can detect it *if I'm paying attention*.  If I'm driving, then I'd better not be concentrating on trying to work out what colour little dots of light are.

That's the thing about colourblindness - when you've spent your entire life in a world where colours are unremarkable, then you don't waste cognitive effort on colour where there are more reliable cues.  I'd say that over half the real-world colour vision issues I have are due to attention^[1] rather than colour discrimination.  For example, barakta might ask me to buy "the blue bagels", and I'll have to ask which flavour she means, because by default I pay attention to the perfectly good text on the label, rather than the colour of the wrapper, and I've no idea whether there's also a purple-that-I-might-mistake-for-blue flavour that I'm unaware of.  Or I might not spot that two things are subtly different because the colours appear similar (I once came home with a bottle of Jif lime juice for pancake day, because they were the same colour and I never realised that lime juice was a thing).  Actual colour discrimination issues tend to be things like charging LEDs, bad web design and resistor colour bands, which are surprisingly rare.


_{[1] Often other people's attention, if we want to be social model of disability about it.}

[Fructify]

If only it were orange as, personally, I'm becoming less of a fan of yellow hi-viz. I subscribe to the theory that many car drivers will subconsciously associate yellow hi-viz with static road furniture; which, in my mind, explains some of the dreadful anticipation (e.g. left hooks as the object they've just overtaken is static) and close passes (hi-viz bollards, being inanimate objects, don't mind being passed closely).

For drivers who, like me, are colour-blind, orange is NOT a good choice for hi-viz, as it blends really nicely into a green background. Yellow is the only colour which stands out against anything.

On the railways you see the track workers wearing orange rather than yellow.  My understanding is that this is because yellow can blend in with the vegetation.  In the US many states make hunters wear orange because its stands out whilst the deer they are after only see in black an white so orange doesn't give hunters way so I can understand people with different vision will see things differently. 

It would appear that there is no universal colour that stands out for everyone. 

[mustgettaller]

Yellow high-viz can definitely blend in.

A few months ago when driving in the leafy West Sussex lanes I rounded a corner and spotted some horse riders very late. When I'd slowed down and apologised to them for the speed of my approach, I pointed out that their yellow high-viz tabards blended in perfectly with the sunlight shining through the trees.

This is one reason I ride with lights all the time  (and don't bother with high-viz). When going in and out of heavily shaded wooded lanes, it's easy to be hard to spot by other road users.

Just my 2p worth.

[Kim]

It would appear that there is no universal colour that stands out for everyone.

Blue is the colour that's unaffected by most types of colourblindness (true monochromats usually have the receptors for blue light - though of course it will appear 'white' to them), but that doesn't mean it's any good for contrast against a blue background, or when there isn't much blue light around.

[Cpt Sisko]

As a Sales Rep doing a lot of miles in both urban and rural envioroments, just chucking my tupence worth in as well.

I think yellow Hi Viz is vastly over rated as a safety tool in the busy urban envoiroment for cyclist to think it's going to make them stand out anymore. There are just so many 'others' also wearing hi viz for the cyclist to be the exception. Everyone from workmen to binmen, charity collectors to paramedics seem to wear yellow hi viz, the cyclist wearing hi vis just another jacket. Okay, it may still help, but it isn't a magic defence shield.

In less busy area I do think it serves it's purpose, in rural ones, maybe but I do tend to sway to the blend in point of view.

My big exception, at night. The yellow bit is useless, but the reflective parts works a treat and draws your eye, paticularly of movement is involved. However, and this is a big however, don't wear a rucksack over top and block off the said reflective strips. Ditto with back lights pointing to the stars or down to the ground. Point them horizontal so they can do thier job.

[Kim]

My big exception, at night. The yellow bit is useless but the reflective parts works a treat and draw your eye, paticularly of movement is involved. However, and this is a big however, don't wear a rucksack over top and block of the said reflective strips. Ditto with back lights pointing to the stars or down to the ground. Point them horizontal so they can do thier job.

My general approach is correctly aligned lights (preferably not under the saddle where clothing can dangle in front of them) and liberal application of Scotchlite tape to convenient parts of the bike - rear rack, seat stays, mudguards, cranks, back of recumbent seat, etc.  Those 3M spoke reflectors are good too, in the subset of situations where they can actually do anything useful.

At which point reflective clothing becomes largely redundant (but if you're going to wear reflectives, on a conventional bike the lower leg is by far the most effective place - it's down in the headlight beam, and the distinctive movement screams 'cyclist').

Those 'Hump' rucksack covers solve the rucksack-over-hi-vis problem, but for some reason they seem to be overwhelmingly popular with the fast-prat-on-a-bike demographic.  I assume because they appeal to the people who've been cycle commuting for long enough to have developed some fitness, but who haven't yet discovered panniers or road sense.

[dim]

As a Sales Rep doing a lot of miles in both urban and rural envioroments, just chucking my tupence worth in as well.

I think yellow Hi Viz is vastly over rated as a safety tool in the busy urban envoiroment for cyclist to think it's going to make them stand out anymore. There are just so many 'others' also wearing hi viz for the cyclist to be the exception. Everyone from workmen to binmen, charity collectors to paramedics seem to wear yellow hi viz, the cyclist wearing hi vis just another jacket. Okay, it may still help, but it isn't a magic defence shield.

In less busy area I do think it serves it's purpose, in rural ones, maybe but I do tend to sway to the blend in point of view.

My big exception, at night. The yellow bit is useless, but the reflective parts works a treat and draws your eye, paticularly of movement is involved. However, and this is a big however, don't wear a rucksack over top and block off the said reflective strips. Ditto with back lights pointing to the stars or down to the ground. Point them horizontal so they can do thier job.

for night, you need the proviz reflect jacket .... If you do audax and cycle in the dark, this is a must have IMHO ... you get lit up like Caspar the ghost ... amazing

if you use a rucksack, get the Proviz


and I'm not a Proviz employee 

[Jacomus]

From a lorry driver's perspective, yellow or orange hi-viz is very effective in low contrast situations. Lights* are most effective in high contrast situations, and reflectives do work well at night. 


*Of the bright, but well adjusted, variety.

Poorly adjusted frikkin' lazers are downright dangerous, as is aiming your Exposure headtorch on Turbo Mode at the driver. Tripleplusdangerous at night, in the rain.

[hellymedic]

From my Twitter feed:

[Jacomus]

 

[Peter]

Scene attended by Australian police, apparently.

[Tim Hall]

On the railways you see the track workers wearing orange rather than yellow.  My understanding is that this is because yellow can blend in with the vegetation.  In the US many states make hunters wear orange because its stands out whilst the deer they are after only see in black an white so orange doesn't give hunters way so I can understand people with different vision will see things differently. 

It would appear that there is no universal colour that stands out for everyone.

Last time I worked "on or near the line" in the UK, which was 6 months ago, railway hi viz was orange. No ifs, buts or maybes.  They're strict on hardhat colour too - no red or green, as that's what colour signals are.

[quixoticgeek]

my logic suggests that it is not a good idea to have stuff written on the back for the drivers to read. firstly, there is not enough space to make it readable (only one big letter would be visible if it's printed on the lower half of the vest/gillet). secondly, if the driver tries to read what's written on your back he/she may drive in to you - similar phenomenon when people drive into roadside objects on deserted roads as they keep looking at them. imo, yacf jersey arrows on rear pockets are a good solution (for the uk) as it reminds a common road sign. another image that could work well is a big horizontal right arrow with "1.5m" printed on it.

I'm reminded of Sarah Outen's hi vi jacket on her ride across North America. It had something along the lines of "I'm not mad" or "I'm ok" written across it because people kept stopping to check on this cyclist crossing Alaska & Canada in the snow...

J

[quixoticgeek]

I think yellow Hi Viz is vastly over rated as a safety tool in the busy urban envoiroment for cyclist to think it's going to make them stand out anymore. There are just so many 'others' also wearing hi viz for the cyclist to be the exception. Everyone from workmen to binmen, charity collectors to paramedics seem to wear yellow hi viz, the cyclist wearing hi vis just another jacket. Okay, it may still help, but it isn't a magic defence shield.

The thing with yellow is to do with saturation, the effect is that to the human eye, it just washes out. Orange sticks out a lot more.

Yellow also can be an issue in country lanes when on a backdrop of oil seed rape fields in full bloom...

I got an orange and yellow hump pack cover when I was regularly cycling to college down country lanes. The combo of both colours plus the reflectives and me sticking a blinky light on it basically gave noone an excuse for not seeing me.

Years ago the HSE did a test of the visibility of various colours at sea and found that during daylight hours, Black bouys are more visible than yellow ones on a lumpy ocean. It's interesting how this all works.

I don't like hi vi, it always feels like victim blaming to insist on it in addition to the bike lights. Each unto their own.

J

[Mr Larrington]

Official Nevada Department of Transportation ones are mostly orange with both yellow and reflective stripes, though the Dutch kids' bright orange team-issue T-shaped shirts were just as visible.

[Moleman76]

" heyreflecto " in Australia sell an interesting assortment of eye-catching hi-viz vests / gilets.  They probably don't strictly comply with any standards, but look to be very visible.

www.heyreflecto.com should get you close

[504steve]

" heyreflecto " in Australia sell an interesting assortment of eye-catching hi-viz vests / gilets.  They probably don't strictly comply with any standards, but look to be very visible.

www.heyreflecto.com should get you close

www.heyreflecto.com.au will get you closer 

also eye-catching prices.

[Jaded]

Ironic - in a country where helmets are compulsory, most models in that website are not wearing them. In this country it is often the other way round!