Garmin, Wahoo - what do you think of yours and what does it do?

[Pingu]

Unfortunately all the recent Garmins will only allow 2 additional selected fields on the map page...

I've seen a picture of an Etrex 35 with 4 data fields at the top of the map.

I assume LateStarter's falling into the increasingly common cyclist trap of assuming that the Edge series are the only Garmin products that are suitable for use on a bike.  I blame their marketing.

Yeah. I just get a bit grumpy with people making these claims without checking

[fhills]

So does your device do what I am looking for - breadcrumb trail to follow, 3-4 data fields Ant+ and recharge on the go?

My eTrex 30 (which seems to be the point where Garmin got the hardware right, before losing the plot in later models) has served me well, but fails on your requirement for a power meter (it speaks Ant+, but only understands HRM, temperature sensors and the cadence half of combined speed/cadence sensors).

Breadcrumbs, 4 fields on the map screen (5 if you've got auto-routing turn directions), no problem.

I've only ever experienced crashes when auto-routing gets confused by some map quirk, or when the MicroSD card has come loose because the flap wasn't properly shut.  The latter is bad design, as it's easy to dislodge it when changing batteries.

The Etrex 20 is effectively the same isn't it apart from the "built in" compass and altimeter.

I agree with your general drift though.

I bought an Etrex 20 and have recently acquired secondhand another 20 and a 20x as I expected Garmin to discontinue them. I also plan to take a spare on long tours.

I too get occasional crashes but it's no great problem to just reboot it and I can live with it. I had the impression that ONE cause can be momentary loss of satellites but may be wrong.

Was surprised to see that Garmin have just released new versions of the 20/x and 30/x but can't see any great advantage to them.

For general purpose use, despite some minor issues, I would unreservedly recommend the 20/30 series.

On the card flap I secure the top with that old cycling standby - a small bit of duct tape. Be careful that you just secure the top though - if you let the tape go lower it is possibly to pull the little flap/door of its hinges.

[Kim]

The Etrex 20 is effectively the same isn't it apart from the "built in" compass and altimeter.

The 20 doesn't have any Ant+ capability, either.

I don't know what you're implying by the scare quotes, but the magnetic compass is a genuinely useful feature iff you're using the unit handheld while walking.  (It doesn't really achieve anything on a bike.)

[quixoticgeek]

the magnetic compass ...(It doesn't really achieve anything on a bike.)

Really?

J

[Kim]

the magnetic compass ...(It doesn't really achieve anything on a bike.)

Really?

Well, it rotates the map in some arbitrary direction after you come to a stop (worse the more vertically you have the unit mounted).  On the Vista HCx you could switch it off, and it would use the direction of the last GPS movement, which would generally correlate with the direction your bike was pointing in.

I suspect it would work better if you could mount it to your bike and then rotate the lot in three axes to calibrate out the effect of metallic parts.  But if your bike's light enough to do that with, it's probably not very metallic to begin with.

It's great when you're on foot though.  Solves the which-way-out-of-the-station problem and everything.

[quixoticgeek]

Well, it rotates the map in some arbitrary direction after you come to a stop.  On the Vista HCx you could switch it off, and it would use the direction of the last GPS movement, which would generally correlate with the direction your bike was pointing in.

I suspect it would work better if you could mount it to your bike and then rotate the lot in three axes to calibrate out the effect of metallic parts.  But if your bike's light enough to do that with, it's probably not very metallic to begin with.

It's great when you're on foot though.  Solves the which-way-out-of-the-station problem and everything.

My Wahoo has a simple compass pointer thingy on the top right corner of the map page. Which lets me know which direction is North. I've found it really useful, if for no other reason than a double check I'm heading the right way.

J

[fhills]

The Etrex 20 is effectively the same isn't it apart from the "built in" compass and altimeter.

The 20 doesn't have any Ant+ capability, either.

I don't know what you're implying by the scare quotes, but the magnetic compass is a genuinely useful feature iff you're using the unit handheld while walking.  (It doesn't really achieve anything on a bike.)

Cripes!

has this place got more argumentative since I semi departed?

not trying to scare anyone Kim - nor imply anything - or be snide.

I used the quotes in case I was using the wrong term for I was hardly being techie.

I meant that it works from the unit itself - doesn't need to be plotting your movement in relation to any satellites (not built in)

Yes I can see that it would be useful when walking.

all the best

[Kim]

Well, it rotates the map in some arbitrary direction after you come to a stop.  On the Vista HCx you could switch it off, and it would use the direction of the last GPS movement, which would generally correlate with the direction your bike was pointing in.

I suspect it would work better if you could mount it to your bike and then rotate the lot in three axes to calibrate out the effect of metallic parts.  But if your bike's light enough to do that with, it's probably not very metallic to begin with.

It's great when you're on foot though.  Solves the which-way-out-of-the-station problem and everything.

My Wahoo has a simple compass pointer thingy on the top right corner of the map page. Which lets me know which direction is North. I've found it really useful, if for no other reason than a double check I'm heading the right way.

Yes, so does the Garmin.  It can optionally rotate the map so it matches your direction of travel too.

But we're not talking about the display, we're talking about how it obtains that orientation information.  A GPS receiver can derive it from the last GPS movement, or it can use an additional magnetometer so that the direction is available when rotating on the spot.  Garmins with the optional magetometer feature will use it for orientation below about walking speed, so the compass display is correct even when stopped.

[Kim]

The Etrex 20 is effectively the same isn't it apart from the "built in" compass and altimeter.

The 20 doesn't have any Ant+ capability, either.

I don't know what you're implying by the scare quotes, but the magnetic compass is a genuinely useful feature iff you're using the unit handheld while walking.  (It doesn't really achieve anything on a bike.)

Cripes!

has this place got more argumentative since I semi departed?

not trying to scare anyone Kim - nor imply anything - or be snide.

I wasn't suggesting you were.  "Scare quotes" is a technical term for use of quotes to denote a jargon or potentially inaccurate term.  Like I did just there, and it seems you did above.

[Martin]

I would never have bought an e30 if I'd known it didn't navigate turn by turn  from tracks; have to create a route on Basecamp instead

having said that I've got used to it and like all the other bonuses of it

[frankly frankie]

the magnetic compass ...(It doesn't really achieve anything on a bike.)

Really?

The "built in" compass ( oooh I'm scared) switches off at anything faster than slow walking speed.  There's no setting or option to trim this behaviour, but as it is it works pretty well.

[Frank9755]

It appears that the wahoo elemnt cannot navigate with North at the top of the screen. Does anyone know if it can be made to do this?

[quixoticgeek]

It appears that the wahoo elemnt cannot navigate with North at the top of the screen. Does anyone know if it can be made to do this?

Yep. It's a setting. Rotate map. Adjust it via the app. I can do a screen shot of where it is in the morning if needed.


J

[Frank9755]

Interesting, my research suggests that it can't have north at the top when following a route. If you know different that would be helpful

[Karla]

That's correct. You can set it to North up or track up when not following a route, but it's always track up when following.  That, combined with its inability to pan the map (which would be okay in North up but combines badly with having the arrow at the bottom of the screen in track up mode) and its inability to to set the zoom level at which roads disappear off the map, are its biggest weak points as a navigational device.

[quixoticgeek]

Interesting, my research suggests that it can't have north at the top when following a route. If you know different that would be helpful

Yeah. My bad. If you're following a route. Behaviour is as you described.

Sorry

J

[Frank9755]

Thanks guys. Returning it. Not having north at the top is too disorienting.
Looks like I'm sticking with the Garmin 705. In over a decade neither Garmin nor its competitors have come out with anything better!

[quixoticgeek]

Thanks guys. Returning it. Not having north at the top is too disorienting.
Looks like I'm sticking with the Garmin 705. In over a decade neither Garmin nor its competitors have come out with anything better!

I've never even thought of wanting north up when route following. I once accidentally turned on rotate map when not following a route and it confused the hell out of me.

I've now seen a few Garmin owners get one, find it doesn't work for them, and go back to Garmin. I wonder if Garmin Vs wahoo is a bit like iOS Vs android. I tried an iPhone once, it drove me insane and I went back to android very fast.

I wonder if i tried a Garmin would I have a similar reaction...

J

[Salvatore]

Thanks guys. Returning it. Not having north at the top is too disorienting.
Looks like I'm sticking with the Garmin 705. In over a decade neither Garmin nor its competitors have come out with anything better!

I've never even thought of wanting north up when route following. I once accidentally turned on rotate map when not following a route and it confused the hell out of me.

I've now seen a few Garmin owners get one, find it doesn't work for them, and go back to Garmin. I wonder if Garmin Vs wahoo is a bit like iOS Vs android. I tried an iPhone once, it drove me insane and I went back to android very fast.

I wonder if i tried a Garmin would I have a similar reaction...

J

On our ride to the Solovetski Islands a few years ago, swarm_catcher and I both used Etrex 20s. I use north up, she used track up. We both tried the other's preference briefly, but couldn't get on with it. I can see where north up could cause confusion if you're travelling south (e.g. at a left turn the track goes to the right of the screen), but on the other hand I've been looking at maps with north at the top for most of my life.

[simonp]

Ian Walker’s video on twitter yesterday described his Wahoo crashing repeatedly and being very slow to recover.

Mine did crash on a 400. Edge 1030 has been rock solid.

[quixoticgeek]

On our ride to the Solovetski Islands a few years ago, swarm_catcher and I both used Etrex 20s. I use north up, she used track up. We both tried the other's preference briefly, but couldn't get on with it. I can see where north up could cause confusion if you're travelling south (e.g. at a left turn the track goes to the right of the screen), but on the other hand I've been looking at maps with north at the top for most of my life.

I've always rotated the map to orientate it with North so it matches my surroundings, and I can then follow it. When I did orienteering I had a thumb compass, that only showed north, I'd place it on the map, rotate me and map until I was facing the right way. Then run off.

I suppose this is related to the "You're holding the map upside down!" Comments. No. I've orientated it correctly...

J

[R_nger]

... place it on the map, rotate me and map until I was facing the right way. Then run off.

Forgive me, as I may have a post-weekend cloudy head, but isn't the above the same as "track up" ?

[quixoticgeek]

... place it on the map, rotate me and map until I was facing the right way. Then run off.

Forgive me, as I may have a post-weekend cloudy head, but isn't the above the same as "track up" ?

Yes...

I was suggesting I use "track up" with a map, same as I do with my wahoo. Thus have never thought that people might want North up even when following a track...

J

[Frank9755]

On our ride to the Solovetski Islands a few years ago, swarm_catcher and I both used Etrex 20s. I use north up, she used track up. We both tried the other's preference briefly, but couldn't get on with it. I can see where north up could cause confusion if you're travelling south (e.g. at a left turn the track goes to the right of the screen), but on the other hand I've been looking at maps with north at the top for most of my life.
[/quote]

Clearly track up works for some people and not for others (although I'm a bit surprised at Els!).  I one borrowed a friend's Garmin which was set with track up, and I assumed that it had a fault. 
The surprising thing is that Wahoo, haven't done what Garmin have and enabled the user to switch to the option they prefer.

[Frank9755]

Ian Walker’s video on twitter yesterday described his Wahoo crashing repeatedly and being very slow to recover.

Mine did crash on a 400. Edge 1030 has been rock solid.

I saw  that - it also had bald patches appearing in his maps.  I hope it doesn't mess up his record.
I've heard people say the 1030 is proving more reliable then the other ones since the 705, which was why I bought one to begin with.  But the inability to have more than 2 data fields on the map screen was a showstopper for me.  Again, something that should be easy to enable.