Newbie daft question...

[Sergeant Pluck]

OK, proper installer for adding the contours to Mapsource

Very neat  

Edited query: am I correct in thinking that, in Mapsource, the contours cannot be made to overlay my main map (Metroguide Europe), and that the primary purpose of all this is to be able to view the contours on the device itself (in which the contours can be made to overlay the main map)?

[frankly frankie]

The TYP editor is not working for me (or I don't understand how to use it) when I try to edit Frankie's 13100131.typ.  The file is not being altered after clicking "Save" on any line.

Use 'download TYP file' at the bottom of the page, to save.

[fuaran]

Edited query: am I correct in thinking that, in Mapsource, the contours cannot be made to overlay my main map (Metroguide Europe), and that the primary purpose of all this is to be able to view the contours on the device itself (in which the contours can be made to overlay the main map)?

Yes, I don't think there's any way of overlaying different maps in Mapsource. Though you can do this on the device, if you send a combined mapset to it.

Though it can still be of some use in Mapsource to an idea of how hilly a route is. ie plot a route on Metroguide maps, then switch to the contour maps. It will show the route on top of the contour lines. Though it won't show an elevation profile for some reason.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Thanks fuaran. I'll try it later on the HCx - I had been hoping I could simply set the device to display more than one map at once, so I'll have to investigate how to create a combined mapset.

[MattH]

Combined mapsets are easy; in mapsource, choose the first map (e.g. city navigator) from the drop down box. Use the tile select tool to choose which maps you want to load into the device. Then choose the second map (e.g. contours) from the drop bown box and choose the tiles from that. Then download to the device. Both maps get sent.

On the device, you can choose which maps are shown using tickboxes somewhere in the menu system (which varies a little by device). You simply tick both maps.

[Kim]

Though it can still be of some use in Mapsource to an idea of how hilly a route is. ie plot a route on Metroguide maps, then switch to the contour maps. It will show the route on top of the contour lines. Though it won't show an elevation profile for some reason.

I don't think Mapsource has a concept of elevation.  The contour maps are just lines on a map, IYSWIM.  Memory Map is my weapon of choice for that sort of thing.

Thanks fuaran. I'll try it later on the HCx - I had been hoping I could simply set the device to display more than one map at once, so I'll have to investigate how to create a combined mapset.

While the device can indeed display as many maps at once as you like, most of them aren't transparent (the SMC contours are the notable exception), so they will for the most part obscure each other in arbitrary order.

[fuaran]

Though it can still be of some use in Mapsource to an idea of how hilly a route is. ie plot a route on Metroguide maps, then switch to the contour maps. It will show the route on top of the contour lines. Though it won't show an elevation profile for some reason.

I don't think Mapsource has a concept of elevation.  The contour maps are just lines on a map, IYSWIM.  Memory Map is my weapon of choice for that sort of thing.

Topo GB can give an elevation profile for a route. I don't know how it does it, if its just based on the contour lines, or whether it have some sort of other hidden elevation data (which presumably the 'unofficial' contour maps are lacking).

[MattH]

Though it can still be of some use in Mapsource to an idea of how hilly a route is. ie plot a route on Metroguide maps, then switch to the contour maps. It will show the route on top of the contour lines. Though it won't show an elevation profile for some reason.

I don't think Mapsource has a concept of elevation.  The contour maps are just lines on a map, IYSWIM.  Memory Map is my weapon of choice for that sort of thing.

It will show elevation ("profile") if you are either looking at a recorded track that has the information, or if you are using the Garmin Topo map. So with Topo V2, Contours and City Navigator loaded, I can only see the profile (by bringing up the route properties and clicking the Profile button) if Topo is selected. Otherwise the profile button is greyed out. You don't have to recalculate the route to generate this (e.g. if you've plotted the route in CN, then selecting Topo will show you the profile). It's a shame that doesn't also work with Contours.

 It's not very good, though, Memory Map is far better. One particular missing feature is the ability to point at a spot in the profile and see where it is on the map (e.g. to be able to try to route around it).

[Biggsy]

Combined mapsets are easy; in mapsource, choose the first map (e.g. city navigator) from the drop down box. Use the tile select tool to choose which maps you want to load into the device. Then choose the second map (e.g. contours) from the drop bown box and choose the tiles from that. Then download to the device. Both maps get sent.

On the device, you can choose which maps are shown using tickboxes somewhere in the menu system (which varies a little by device). You simply tick both maps.

I think SP wanted to see the combination in Mapsource for on-the-PC route planning etc.  It seems that's not properly possible.  The BikeHike alternative looks good though, as it displays the good old Ordnance Survey map.

- - -
Thanks Frankie for the tip about the TYP editor.  I'll have another go sometime.

- - -
I've managed to combine OSM + CN + contours for my memory card file.  I generally prefer the look of CN, but OSM has more features for some areas, so it's good to be able to quickly switch between them without having to swap cards.

- - -
I've naughtily obtained a free* copy of "Recreational map of Europe Topo v3" (as gmapsupp.img) - but the contour lines are only in 25m intervals, even in "Most" detail (at least for where I've looked so far).

* Not feeling too guilty as I've paid through the nose already for the unit and one map from proper dealers.

[frankly frankie]

I think SP wanted to see the combination in Mapsource for on-the-PC route planning etc.  It seems that's not properly possible.  The BikeHike alternative looks good though, as it displays the good old Ordnance Survey map.

Once you've got MSTK skills, there is a way to do it, using OSM maps which are pretty good in most of UK now.

Download the OSM tiles for the area you want.  Probably easiest to get them from http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php.
Use MSTK to get them into Mapsource, just like with the contours, only this time set a priority of about 20 and non-transparent.

To have an OSM with contours overlaid, all visible in Mapsource, do the same thing but select all your SMC tiles as well as your OSM tiles, all into the one build.  It all looks a bit crappy until you add a decent TYP file into the mix, to tone the contours down a bit.  The TYP file obtainable from Andy's download page is a decent starting point.

This fragment of a screenshot shows the sort of thing - OSM+SMC in Mapsource

I often switch to this while planning.   You can do the same trick in France and the Alps - you have to source the contours differently, and the OSM coverage is more patchy (often nonexistent, sometimes staggeringly rich) - but its still a useful reference.

[Biggsy]

I've now got the Topo map into Mapsource.  I'm getting addicted to this combining business.  But does the unit (Edge 605) run slow if gmapsupp.img gets to a certain size and complexity?

[Sergeant Pluck]

I think SP wanted to see the combination in Mapsource for on-the-PC route planning etc.  It seems that's not properly possible.  

That my intitial thought - not possible as you say, so I was going to see of what use the contours are on the device, if any.

For OS routing I have an ageing version of Memory Map if I want to check for excess hilliness.

[frankly frankie]

But does the unit (Edge 605) run slow if gmapsupp.img gets to a certain size and complexity?

A big map affects the boot time, and a complex one slows down the screen redraws, more noticeable on older units.  (Your choice of zoom level is a much more significant factor.) Both are a price worth paying though.

There is a limit to the number of tiles you can combine - but its a lot, somewhere up around 2000 I think ...

[Adam]

My turn for a few questions!

Are there any GPS units which have a "Go to" function, so that it can then plot a route from where you are now to get back home?  Also, do any have the option to allow you to make on the fly adjustments to a route, so basically you can tweak the route when you're stopped, meaning it will then display the new route for you to follow?

[Sergeant Pluck]

Any of the Garmin GPSs can do this: if you have your home as a way point, you simply select that waypoint and ask the device to navigate to it. If you do not have "home" as an existing waypoint, you can easily create it on the device.

If you deviate from a route that you have been following, it will recalculate a new route via the remaining waypoints. Or, if you want to make your current route go via somewhere else, you can add a waypoint but that's a bit fiddly to do en route.

Back to the contours: I've transferred the combined mapset etc but to be honest it is not really of much use on the device itself, but it was worth a try. 

[Biggsy]

Back to the contours: I've transferred the combined mapset etc but to be honest it is not really of much use on the device itself, but it was worth a try.

Can't you see where the hills are?

It's going to be useful on my Edge 605 when I haven't (completely) planned a route in advance.

[MattH]

Any of the Garmin GPSs can do this: if you have your home as a way point, you simply select that waypoint and ask the device to navigate to it. If you do not have "home" as an existing waypoint, you can easily create it on the device.

They do, but you have to check the route for sanity - sometimes they do "interesting" things, like take you down long minor road detours to avoid a small bit of A road (if set to bicycle - which you have to do to avoid it taking you down motorways).

Back to the contours: I've transferred the combined mapset etc but to be honest it is not really of much use on the device itself, but it was worth a try. 

The combined contours is mainly useful on the device if you are reasonably zoomed in (e.g. 80m), then you can see the contours as you climb a hill to know if around the next bend is the summit or a vertical wall to climb.

When zoomed out you can see if there are any particularly hilly bits around you, but you are limited by the size of the display in finding anything useful (like ways around big hills) - if you zoom out far enough to be able to see the overlying lie of the ground there is too much clutter to be able to actually see anything.

[Ashaman42]

Not sure whether to ask this here or make a whole new thread for it but here goes.

Say I'm following a route that I've programmed in for a long ride/audax and I need to turn the unit off to change the batteries, when I turn it on again is it a)possible to start navigating the route again but from halfway round (or wherever I got to)? And b) can the two resultant track/log files be combined into a single track for sending off for verification?

This is on a Etrex Vista HCx.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Can't you see where the hills are?

What MattH said really.

[MattH]

Yes.

On both my old Garmin Legend and my 705 doing what you suggest results in a single track log - unless you specifically tell it to start a new one.

You do have to make sure that you remember to tell it to start logging again after turning it back on.

If you are part way around a route when you tell it that you want to follow that route (e.g. if you've swapped batteries) then it will pick it up from where you are. There could be a short bit of confusion if it tries to send you back to the closest waypoint behind you, but that is usually obvious on the road.

[Biggsy]

You can scroll around when zoomed in to see the contours anywhere.  Far from ideal, but still a lot better than not having contours at all.

[Sergeant Pluck]

You can scroll around when zoomed in to see the contours anywhere.  Far from ideal, but still a lot better than not having contours at all.

True. I'll need to wait for a hilly ride to see how effective it is. Very handy installer ^ too.

Off topic again: do Vista HCx users switch the basemap off or do you just let it display along with your main mapping? I guess it is just overlaid by the "proper" map but I  wonder is there any downside to switching it off just to give the device a little less to do?

[Biggsy]

Going back to on-the-PC route planning with contours in Mapsource:

There's an OSM map from FREE UK and Ireland Maps Home (talkytoaster) that includes contours that are all visable on your PC when zoomed in to "700m" with "Highest" detail level.  Quite a decent area fits on an average computer screen at that level, though it's cluttered with too many symbols in some areas.

I used GMapTool and then MapSetToolkit to get it in MapSource, if I remember rightly.

[fuaran]

Say I'm following a route that I've programmed in for a long ride/audax and I need to turn the unit off to change the batteries, when I turn it on again is it a)possible to start navigating the route again but from halfway round (or wherever I got to)? And b) can the two resultant track/log files be combined into a single track for sending off for verification?

This is on a Etrex Vista HCx.

If you're using a Vista HCx, its best to set it to log the track to the memory card, then you never have to worry about running out of space. If you do this it will log the track as one GPX file per day. If you switch the eTrex off and on it will create separate tracks, but they will still be in the same GPX file. I'm not sure about the AUK software, but it should accept this. Or you can easily combine the tracks in Mapsource (or other software) if necessary.
If you're riding on more than one day (ie before and after midnight), it will create a separate GPX file per day. I don't know if the AUK software can use this, but they can be easily combined into one file if you want.

[Kim]

If you're using a Vista HCx, its best to set it to log the track to the memory card, then you never have to worry about running out of space.

Also, enable the "wrap when full" option in the track setup screen.  This means that when the eTrex's track memory becomes full, it deletes the oldest track point to create space for the new one (so you always have the most recent section of track in memory).  The track logged to the memory card is *not* truncated however, and can grow as much as space allows.  This setting is important, because with "wrap when full" off, the eTrex simply stops logging track points (even to the memory card) when the internal memory becomes full.

Realistically, this is only likely to be an issue if you have the logging resolution turned up very high, or it's a very long ride.  But it's worth doing, because I guarantee that the one time you forget and get caught out by this, it'll be on a ride you really didn't want to lose the tracklog for.