Author Topic: [HAMR] More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)  (Read 75084 times)

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #125 on: 14 January, 2016, 05:07:57 pm »
Just out of interest. Kurt was interviewed in this week's comic and gave the following insights:-

Q: Does Steve Abraham have a chance?

A: If he doesn't get out of England, no. If he'd had a different plan for the winter, he definitely have had a chance.

Q: Godwin, is the comparison fair?


..But if I'd had to do it in England I wouldn't have broken the record, there's no way in hell I'd be riding in the cold. I know that will make the Tommy fans happy.

Great humility from Kurt in my view and underpinning the fact that there are no givens when taking on the challenge over here.


+1 to that. And Kurt goes up a notch in my estimation for those answers.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #126 on: 14 January, 2016, 05:09:12 pm »
This weekend is likely to see the coldest weather in the UK for a few years.

Bloody well hope not. I have this month's DIY 200 inked in for Sunday :(
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

simonp

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #127 on: 14 January, 2016, 05:11:53 pm »
Velodrome session on Sunday.

Rowing on the Avon on Saturday, though.

 :hand:

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #128 on: 14 January, 2016, 07:10:50 pm »
I thought this was a thread about the current record attempt??

Hats off to Kurt too!A Gentleman.
There's always time for a second slice of cake.

mattc

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #129 on: 14 January, 2016, 07:26:46 pm »
Quote
Many of his supporters (certainly on FaceBook) are regularly praising him for doing it the "real" way - i.e. as opposed to how Kurt broke the record, which they presumably think was cheating in some way.  If Steve were to use the same tactics (which I agree he probably should if at all possible) then I wonder what those people would have to say - not that I'd care!
I dont read 99% of whats on FB, however; the above is far too binary a view, and your presumption is probably wrong.

I think Kurt's approach is perfectly fair under the rules, and was an awesome ride (I even bought him part of a cake over the internet to celebrate). I dont think he cheated at all.

But I can still admire Steve's approach more.

Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #130 on: 14 January, 2016, 08:02:28 pm »
Quote
Many of his supporters (certainly on FaceBook) are regularly praising him for doing it the "real" way - i.e. as opposed to how Kurt broke the record, which they presumably think was cheating in some way.  If Steve were to use the same tactics (which I agree he probably should if at all possible) then I wonder what those people would have to say - not that I'd care!
I dont read 99% of whats on FB, however; the above is far too binary a view, and your presumption is probably wrong.

So without reading 99% of it you feel able to say that is "far too binary a view" and my presumption is probably wrong.  Are you a clairvoyant?
The sound of one pannier flapping

Kim

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #131 on: 14 January, 2016, 08:11:34 pm »
Before Kurt began his attempt, I said it would be interesting to see how the 'RAAM' approach compared to the 'AUK' approach.  I don't think we've been disappointed in that respect, and within the UMCA rules it's fair to say that Kurt's method has left a lot more margin for error than Steve's.

On that basis, I'd rather see if Steve can beat Godwin (if not Kurt) using his current tactics, than take a more pragmatic approach to increase his chances of success.  As it stands, he's used up his margin for bad luck and is now betting against the British weather - succeed or fail, it's going to be heroic.

mattc

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #132 on: 14 January, 2016, 08:13:48 pm »
Quote
Many of his supporters (certainly on FaceBook) are regularly praising him for doing it the "real" way - i.e. as opposed to how Kurt broke the record, which they presumably think was cheating in some way.  If Steve were to use the same tactics (which I agree he probably should if at all possible) then I wonder what those people would have to say - not that I'd care!
I dont read 99% of whats on FB, however; the above is far too binary a view, and your presumption is probably wrong.

So without reading 99% of it you feel able to say that is "far too binary a view" and my presumption is probably wrong.  Are you a clairvoyant?
I explained my reasoning - you'll find it in the bit after the first sentence.

Clairvoyance was not involved.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Wowbagger

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #133 on: 14 January, 2016, 08:57:39 pm »
...it's going to be heroic.

It has been heroic for a very long time - probably since his weekend trip to see Hoppo in 6° of frost last January. Everything else has just been piling heroism on top of heroism.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Wowbagger

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #134 on: 14 January, 2016, 11:18:13 pm »
And still he's on the road. 183 miles on the tracker and heading, I reckon, to Great Yarmouth. I hope he can find a damned good nutritious meal and a bed at this time of night. Sever weather warning all over Norfolk for frost and icy roads. Take care, Steve.

Edit: Damn! Wrong thread!
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #135 on: 14 January, 2016, 11:23:11 pm »
And still he's on the road. 183 miles on the tracker and heading, I reckon, to Great Yarmouth. I hope he can find a damned good nutritious meal and a bed at this time of night. Sever weather warning all over Norfolk for frost and icy roads. Take care, Steve.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/observation/u135pr5sv

Raining, 3.4°C, 39mph wind gusting to 53mph currently...

Bianchi Boy

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #136 on: 15 January, 2016, 06:29:16 am »
And still he's on the road. 183 miles on the tracker and heading, I reckon, to Great Yarmouth. I hope he can find a damned good nutritious meal and a bed at this time of night. Sever weather warning all over Norfolk for frost and icy roads. Take care, Steve.

Edit: Damn! Wrong thread!
I think this is called a strategy failure. Cycle a long way from base when it is cold and prone to icing with strong and gusting winds. Does no one offer Steve route advice and forward check the weather? I think this must be a no. I know it is easy after the event but even a loop close to home on well known roads would have been better over the next few days. That way you eliminate at least one risk.
BB

Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

hillbilly

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #137 on: 15 January, 2016, 08:08:22 am »
I don't see what difference it makes, myself. Whether you cycle loops or go long, the risk of hitting ice is the same and if you are caught out in snow then Steve can hunker down in a B&B or call in a lift. But I might be misunderstanding the risk being bandied around.

Wowbagger

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #138 on: 15 January, 2016, 09:19:08 am »
Calling for a volunteer driver in heavy snow brings with it its own problems.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #139 on: 15 January, 2016, 09:28:54 am »
Well, I got halfway to work and turned around and went home again after twenty minutes riding into the freezing sleet. Currently at the computer working at home with a fleece blanket on. If I could go and do winter in the south of France or Spain or anywhere that is as you say, 'warm and flat', I'd be there, purity and dogged Britishness be damned!! I hate winter, and I always forget how much I hate it until it comes back again.

I really hope that Steve can do it, but I admit that it doesn't look very promising at the moment.

There is a cause for hope however: the Daily Express have predicted the coldest winter in 100 years so it's surely going to be one of the warmest ever?

We can hope so! I reckon ice might just be the last straw.

This weekend is likely to see the coldest weather in the UK for a few years. This cold spell will last into next week, after that it's more uncertain. We haven't had an airfrost at my weather station in south Oxfordshire since November. I'm expecting that to change tonight.

This year's weather will be about 'normal' or a tad warmer.
No significant volcanos have gone off lately, so we're not going to get 1981/2 lows; or 1883 or 1815 freezes either.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #140 on: 15 January, 2016, 10:08:34 am »
I'm assuming his passport is up to date? Why the heck isn't he somewhere warm and flat?

Many of his supporters (certainly on FaceBook) are regularly praising him for doing it the "real" way - i.e. as opposed to how Kurt broke the record, which they presumably think was cheating in some way.  If Steve were to use the same tactics (which I agree he probably should if at all possible) then I wonder what those people would have to say - not that I'd care!

The way the 'ideology' of Steve's riding methods has grown up is interesting. It doesn't derive from anything that I've ever heard from Steve. Here's an uncut 11 minute conversation with Steve from shortly after PBP, when he was on his way to Dieppe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwUqJ8sdQc8

That idea of what's 'real' has evolved in the presence of material such as that. So I'm sceptical about views of Tommy Godwin's year. Tommy never spoke about what he did, and there seems to be no extant cine footage of him. If myths can evolve around Steve, in the  face of real information, what does it say about Tommy?

Comments about Kurt are also interesting. The idea that he is at fault for seeking suitable conditions to ride in is just perverse.

I'm not sure what effect the myths have on Steve's chances, it might be that the myths have fund-raising appeal. More money might help, but it would be a quantum leap to a full-time team manager, with a fully-equipped mobile home/workshop/office, which is what has been proven to work.


Ben T

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #141 on: 15 January, 2016, 12:47:42 pm »
The way the 'ideology' of Steve's riding methods has grown up is interesting. It doesn't derive from anything that I've ever heard from Steve. Here's an uncut 11 minute conversation with Steve from shortly after PBP, when he was on his way to Dieppe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwUqJ8sdQc8

That idea of what's 'real' has evolved in the presence of material such as that. So I'm sceptical about views of Tommy Godwin's year. Tommy never spoke about what he did, and there seems to be no extant cine footage of him. If myths can evolve around Steve, in the  face of real information, what does it say about Tommy?

Comments about Kurt are also interesting. The idea that he is at fault for seeking suitable conditions to ride in is just perverse.

I'm not sure what effect the myths have on Steve's chances, it might be that the myths have fund-raising appeal. More money might help, but it would be a quantum leap to a full-time team manager, with a fully-equipped mobile home/workshop/office, which is what has been proven to work.

I worry there is a perception that long distance cycling is somehow inherently "noble". To me, cycling needs to be either useful (transport), competitive (racing, effectively as possible, like Kurt), or enjoyable (leisure). Long distance cycling that doesn't fulfill one of those 3 would still seem to be worthwhile purely for the sake of it to some people as it is deemed 'noble'. I worry that  Steve might be falling into this category.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #142 on: 15 January, 2016, 03:43:30 pm »

I worry there is a perception that long distance cycling is somehow inherently "noble".


Why shouldn't some people perceive it as noble, and why worry about whether they do or not?

You can fit what Steve is doing into your "competitive" category: it is a race against time and it is a race against his own previous achievements, those of Tommy Godwin, and Kurt's recent year in the saddle. To achieve that, he will need to be "as effective as possible". That will take a different form to Kurt's method, of course.


Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #143 on: 15 January, 2016, 03:57:46 pm »

I worry there is a perception that long distance cycling is somehow inherently "noble".


Why shouldn't some people perceive it as noble, and why worry about whether they do or not?



Because it has nothing to do with "noble" by the usual definitions.  Rescuing someone from a fire is noble, riding a bike isn't.  That doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with it, however unusual it might be.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #144 on: 15 January, 2016, 04:00:33 pm »
People tick all manner of boxes inside their heads while they're doing things. It's when they expect others to be ticking those same boxes that it gets a bit weird.

I'd see Steve's record attempt as a management problem. It was originally envisaged that support would be 'crowd-sourced' and a timetable drawn up of where he would be and when. That seemed to prove unwieldy, and was abandoned after the accident.

The optimum solution would seem to be the Kurt approach, but Steve cycles for longer, so you'd need two Alicias, and it would be on a formal, rather than intimate, basis. That would mean weekend cover, and once you start moving to a warmer place, it becomes unworkable.

 

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #145 on: 15 January, 2016, 04:02:51 pm »


I worry there is a perception that long distance cycling is somehow inherently "noble". To me, cycling needs to be either useful (transport), competitive (racing, effectively as possible, like Kurt), or enjoyable (leisure). Long distance cycling that doesn't fulfill one of those 3 would still seem to be worthwhile purely for the sake of it to some people as it is deemed 'noble'. I worry that  Steve might be falling into this category.

Lots of assumptions there, including the idea that Steve isn't enjoying himself.  I'll bet you that, when he finishes this, he'll relax by going for a bike ride.

Ben T

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #146 on: 15 January, 2016, 04:07:20 pm »


Lots of assumptions there, including the idea that Steve isn't enjoying himself.  I'll bet you that, when he finishes this, he'll relax by going for a bike ride.

I'd agree that that is an assumption... but if it's incorrect, then, certainly in the recent weather, I bet it's the sort of cycling you enjoy more having done it retrospectively than while you're actually doing it...

Ben T

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #147 on: 15 January, 2016, 04:09:05 pm »

I worry there is a perception that long distance cycling is somehow inherently "noble".


Why shouldn't some people perceive it as noble, and why worry about whether they do or not?

You can fit what Steve is doing into your "competitive" category: it is a race against time and it is a race against his own previous achievements, those of Tommy Godwin, and Kurt's recent year in the saddle. To achieve that, he will need to be "as effective as possible". That will take a different form to Kurt's method, of course.

Well I don't worry whether other people want to think that I suppose. But I don't see how long distance cycling , or even any cycling, is a good thing in and of itself - if it isn't enjoyable, and it isn't doing what it set out to achieve. Steve isn't doing it as effectively as possible otherwise he would be doing it in america. He could do it in an audax way on a raleigh, in america.

By 'noble' I mean they assume that because it's cycling, it *must* be good, even though it's neither enjoyable, getting from A to B, or achieving anything.
Do they think cycling gets you fit? Apart from intense, short hill reps/sprints, it doesn't. Audax cycling certainly doesn't get you fit.

Ben T

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #148 on: 15 January, 2016, 04:12:10 pm »
People tick all manner of boxes inside their heads while they're doing things. It's when they expect others to be ticking those same boxes that it gets a bit weird.

I'd see Steve's record attempt as a management problem. It was originally envisaged that support would be 'crowd-sourced' and a timetable drawn up of where he would be and when. That seemed to prove unwieldy, and was abandoned after the accident.

The optimum solution would seem to be the Kurt approach, but Steve cycles for longer, so you'd need two Alicias, and it would be on a formal, rather than intimate, basis. That would mean weekend cover, and once you start moving to a warmer place, it becomes unworkable.

I'm starting to believe it would actually be impossible to do it without either an Alicia, OR, a team that rides with you for a lot of the time like Godwin had. Both would be better, but I think one or the other is essential.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #149 on: 15 January, 2016, 04:25:13 pm »
Audax cycling doesn't get you fit eh? Well I hell of a lot unfitter now I don't do it.

It may not get you as fit, or fit as quickly, as 'proper' training but it still does something.
Miles cycled 2014 = 3551.5 (Target 7300 :()
Miles cycled 2013 = 6141.4
Miles cycled 2012 = 4038.1