A Full Spectrum Weedkiller, please

[pcolbeck]

I think this thing was about five feet long and six inches wide. Think sidewinder or aamram more than firework. The chap in question is probably a proffesor at Cambridge or similar now. By all accounts he was very very clever.

[PeteB99]

If it was the right shape, it could have really done some damage.  It's possible to be killed by a bullet which has been fired straight up into the air; the aerodynamics are good enough that, when it falls back down again, the terminal velocity is high enough to penetrate your skull 

This happens occasionally at Middle Eastern "celebrations", which usually involve firing automatic weapons skywards.

I thought that was an 'Urban myth' ?

Once the bullet has stopped spinning on its axis it should start tumbleing on the fall which should prevent it building up a lethal speed

Spent Orthodox Easter one year in a village in Crete - very spectacular - one of the highlights was a german couple complaining that they'd found some spent Kalashnikov rounds on their balcony in the morning

[TimO]

Apparently Sodium Chlorate is no longer an option for this purpose, it's was banned from being sold in the EU shortly after the previous post in this thread.

I've fairly frequently seen Bayer Long Lasting Ground Clear Weedkiller mentioned as being suitable for the same purpose (but mostly by people selling it!).  Has anyone had any success with this, or found another alternative?

My garden has got a little out of control (think rain forest, or jungle), and I'm going to attack it with mechanical means tomorrow.  It's largely gravel, and nothing that I'm really worried about killing, so I want to keep the weeds from growing back as much as possible.

Ideally I don't want this to be too nasty to pets or animals (but anything green, tough luck), since Kai and Zev will be in the back garden, and I fairly frequently see foxes pass through, and I have no particular problem with them (so long as they keep themselves to themselves, which they seem to).

[a lower gear]

Make friends with railway empoyees: a friend obtained some of the weedkiller they spray on railway tracks* and was dismayed to find he'd sterlised his garden for a few years.

Creosote is good for spotting the dandelions that increasingly break through my aging tarmac driveway. I like the smell of cresote. Not the namby-pamby golden brown stuff; the black stuff. Reminds me of walking along rural branch railway lines simmering in the summer sun.


(used to spray? the state of the track these days suggests weedkiller spraying has mostly ended)

[rogerzilla]

A really good spot weedkiller that nothing can withstand, but with no harmful after-effects, is boiling water.

[TimO]

Apparently you can also use vinegar, salt, sugar, and corn meal, all of which have different effects on plants.  Boiling water sounds OK, especially for spot control, but I'm thinking more of something residual, so it'll keep stuff away for a while.

The various commercial products, which have a long lasting effect, appear to be mixtures of glyphosate (aka Roundup) and either flufenacet/metosulam or oxadiazon/diflufenican.  As far as I can work out, they're intended to hit different growth periods.  Since glyphosate is absorbed through leaves, it's most effective towards the end of summer, when the plant is most extensive, whereas some of the others are pre-emergence herbicides, and stop the seeds from growing at all.  So they're probably a mixture of contact and systemic herbicides, but finding out the exact nature of the products is an exercise in extensive Googling!

[Pancho]

Apparently Sodium Chlorate is no longer an option for this purpose, it's was banned from being sold in the EU shortly after the previous post in this thread.

Fortunately, I got wind of the ban in advance and did a bit of stockpiling. I believe I have a few years supply left.

[rogerzilla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Pancho, but aren't you a an adherent of Islam?  And you've been stockpiling sodium chlorate?

I'm amazed you haven't had a visit from a SWAT team 

[TimO]

Similarly to Sodium Chlorate, Jeyes Fluid is no longer licensed to be sold as a weedkiller.  It can be absorbed through skin and paws, so is probably a no go for use in an area which cats and foxes habitually pass through.

[psd]

Apparently you can also use vinegar, salt, sugar, and corn meal, all of which have different effects on plants.  Boiling water sounds OK, especially for spot control, but I'm thinking more of something residual, so it'll keep stuff away for a while.

The various commercial products, which have a long lasting effect, appear to be mixtures of glyphosate (aka Roundup) and either flufenacet/metosulam or oxadiazon/diflufenican.  As far as I can work out, they're intended to hit different growth periods.  Since glyphosate is absorbed through leaves, it's most effective towards the end of summer, when the plant is most extensive, whereas some of the others are pre-emergence herbicides, and stop the seeds from growing at all.  So they're probably a mixture of contact and systemic herbicides, but finding out the exact nature of the products is an exercise in extensive Googling!

Not exactly what you're after, but if you haven't found it already this might save you some googling.

http://sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/footprint/index2.htm

[TimO]

Apparently you can also use vinegar, salt, sugar, and corn meal, all of which have different effects on plants.  Boiling water sounds OK, especially for spot control, but I'm thinking more of something residual, so it'll keep stuff away for a while.

The various commercial products, which have a long lasting effect, appear to be mixtures of glyphosate (aka Roundup) and either flufenacet/metosulam or oxadiazon/diflufenican.  As far as I can work out, they're intended to hit different growth periods.  Since glyphosate is absorbed through leaves, it's most effective towards the end of summer, when the plant is most extensive, whereas some of the others are pre-emergence herbicides, and stop the seeds from growing at all.  So they're probably a mixture of contact and systemic herbicides, but finding out the exact nature of the products is an exercise in extensive Googling!

Not exactly what you're after, but if you haven't found it already this might save you some googling.

http://sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/footprint/index2.htm

Thanks that's quite useful.

If nothing else, it tells me that the dermal LD50 for most of those herbicides, is 2g/kg, which strikes me as quite a lot of material to pick up on paws, so probably not a great risk to the cats and foxes, so long as I keep the mogs in for a day or so, to let the spray dry off.  I can't do a lot about the foxes, but they seem to visit the garden only occasionally, and most of these things have a strong whiff, which may dissuade them from visiting for a while anyway.

[Fab Foodie]

SL OT, but how the hell does one kill Brambles ... they took over the front garden by stealth and have left much destruction ....

[TimO]

I've got brambles as well, but various mechanical means are being used first, then nuking from orbit to keep them at bay.

[rogerzilla]

SL OT, but how the hell does one kill Brambles ... they took over the front garden by stealth and have left much destruction ....

Mmmm, blackberries.

Just pulling them up works pretty well.  They burn beautifully, even when fresh.

[madcow]

Mum's got a big can of genuine paraquat at her place
Paraquat was banned several years ago , having failed its safety review.
It is no longer registered in UK and even possession (aka storage) is a criminal offence. PM me if you want any more advice. I am not an enforcer.

To answer the OP, just use glyphosate in whatever form to clear up weeds now. Going into winter there will be little or no germination of fresh weeds so the driveway should stay clear until spring.
In spring Pathclear is a better choice as some of the chemical stays around to inhibit seed germination.
Tumbleweed IS glyphosate in Ready To Use (RTU)  formulation and pack.

[Bledlow]

SL OT, but how the hell does one kill Brambles ... they took over the front garden by stealth and have left much destruction ....

Mmmm, blackberries.

Just pulling them up works pretty well.  They burn beautifully, even when fresh.

They don't survive composting, in my experience. Once one's got all the big roots out of the ground (the hardest bit), the little sproutlings that spring up can easily be hoed out in normal weeding.

My back garden was half brambles, half thistles when I bought my house. Dug 'em up, chopped 'em up, heaped 'em up together with all the other weeds I dug up, kitchen veg trimmings, etc., & when the grass I'd planted on part of the cleared ground started growing, grass cuttings.

Pulled up a few relics over the next year or so (no special effort). None sprouted from where I used the compost made from the chopped-up brambles & other stuff.

[Exit Stage Left]

To answer the OP, just use glyphosate in whatever form to clear up weeds now. Going into winter there will be little or no germination of fresh weeds so the driveway should stay clear until spring.
In spring Pathclear is a better choice as some of the chemical stays around to inhibit seed germination.
Tumbleweed IS glyphosate in Ready To Use (RTU)  formulation and pack.

Glyphosate comes in a variety of forms. I buy it in 20 litre drums, which can treat five hectates for £58 plus vat. All the cheap ones use tallow amine as a surfactant. So they're not vegetarian, and they'll irritate your eyes. It's the surfactant that costs with a glyphosate herbicide. 5 Litres of Roundup biactive pro costs from £39 plus vat, 1 litre from £19.99, which will treat an area 100 metres x 25 once, you might spray 3 times a year, and it keeps.
http://www.pitchcare.com/shop/roundup-pro-biactive/roundup-pro-biactive-360-1l-total-weed-control.html
Roundup biactive pro is the gold standard in Glyphosate. The stuff you buy in Garden Centres is usually a watered-down version of biactive-pro. That formulation isn't covered by COSHH regulations, http://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/

[caerau]

Glyphosate FTW

If I may comment as a professional chemist, there is a reason Monsanto have produced genetically modified crops to be resistant to glyphosate and then require the farmer to buy glyphosate too.  It's a really awesome weedkiller and (compared to shit like Agent Orange) _relatively_ OK for the environment*.  Much more effective  - it really does get all through the plant.  That's also why it's not so cheap.


*OK it's nasty but not *that* nasty or they wouldn't be able to sell it down the garden centre.

[madcow]

The garden centre stuff is usually quite diluted compared with the professional products. So the hazard rating is reduced , enabling it to be stocked in retail outlets.
But if you want to buy professional grade material , you should be properly trained and hold a certificate of competence in Pesticide handling (PA1) and knapsack sprayer use (PA6). The person selling it to you should ask you to confirm that you are qualified.

[caerau]

Just looked at the dates here- why on earth did this crop up in the latest conversation list before I posted? Seems like it was very late in the game :-/