Planet X Holdsworth Brevet frameset

[Duckfoot1606]

Evening all

Came across the above at Planet X earlier today, have scoured the web but cannot find any reviews about it, the spec looks pretty good for the money. Has anyone come across one of these out and about? Any informed opinions on it as the basis of an audax bike?. Tks . A

[P Walsh]

I don't know it and it may well be okay, but when you can get a Spa steel Audax for the same sort of money and with better tubes, why bother with Planet X?

[fuaran]

Why do you think the Spa has better tubes? Its probably from the same Chinese factory...
Planet X will probably have another sale soon, you might get it much cheaper.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Planet x 4130 cro mo

Spa steel audax Reynolds 725

Very different steel. No idea which is definitely better, tbh but they aren't the same.

History would suggest that the reynolds is likely to be better but finding precise specifications is difficult.

[Hot Flatus]

725 is heat-treated Cr-mo. It should have greater tensile strength.(1080-1280 MPa vs 590-760 MPa), which in turn means it could be drawn into thinner and lighter tubes.

Somebody else can probably confirm this.

Personally, I'm wary of everything produced by PX.  Some of the stuff is ok. Some is shite. The brand 'Holdsworth' means nothing. PX got it thrown in for free with a bunch of old stock carbon frames they bought.

Its a lowish grade Cro-mo frameset and we cant be sure who made it. It might be worth a punt, but as somebody else suggests, bide your time as if they arent selling they will go down heavily in price.

[hubner]

http://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/materials/steel/s-725/
http://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/rtl_steel_alloys_extract.pdf

Reynolds branding started with the legendary “531” used for cycle, motorcycle
, automotive and aviation use commencing in 1935. For our steel products, the increasing
brand number generally indicates higher strength based on the alloy content.

Reynolds 953: Stainless Maraging Steel, currently used as premium-melted, precision welded and cold-drawn tube with
maximum tensile strength at 2000MPa. The combination of stainless properties and martensitic-aging makes this a great
engineering alloy with very high specific strength.

Reynolds 931: Stainless Precipitation Hardening Steel based on the Custom 630/17-4PH grade alloy
composition. Tubes can be either welded or seamless depending on the application.

Reynolds 921:
Cold worked, high strength austenitic stainless steel based on 21-6-9 grade alloy composition.
High levels of manganese and nickel provide toughness whilst a high nitrogen content increases yield strength

Reynolds 853: Seamless Air-hardening Steel mainly cold-drawn and heat-treated. The air-hardening effect in the weld
zone creates a fine grain structure, allied to the bainitic microstructure for this alloy, leading to fatigue life improvement.

Reynolds 631: is the cold-drawn version of the 853, with similar air-hardening advantages in the weld zone.

Reynolds 725: Chrome-moly steel, based on the industry standard 4130steel alloy. This tube range is heat-treated.

Reynolds 525: Also based on the 4130 steel. Our Reynolds 520 series is normally a welded, cold-drawn version.

[P Walsh]

Why do you think the Spa has better tubes? Its probably from the same Chinese factory...
Planet X will probably have another sale soon, you might get it much cheaper.

4130 may or may not be heat treated, so may be as good. May be. The machining and quality control may be as good as Reynolds. Maybe. There is nothing much wrong with no-brand 4130, but I'd opt for a reputable brand if it costs no more. That is the point. They cost the same, but one offers tubes from a reputable brand.

[citoyen]

I don't know the Brevet but I recently bought a PX Holdsworth La Quelda SS frameset. I paid £80 for it when PX were having one of their regular sales. I do like the bike but frankly, I'm glad I didn't pay much more than that. Main complaint is that you only have to look at it for the paint to flake off.

As Flatus says, these bikes are Holdsworth in name only. Rides nicely though. Not as heavy as I would have imagined.

[Hot Flatus]

Who'd have thought that a former high quality racing shoe producer now makes shit wooly hats that sell for £2, but only on PX?

[citoyen]

 

[sojournermike]

I'd buy the Spa Steel Audax. It's a super frame and we K is that it works and what the steel is. Somewhere on the web Colon, the designer,  informed the tube specs as well.

I'm sure that if you wanted a steel fork they'd swap out the carbon with alloy steered for one of their own or a surly pacer fork. You can get the latter with a 50mm offset as well, which I think works better with bigger tyres (28 or 32mm)

Mike

[Planet X Paul]

A lot of snobbery going on here 

Bought my first PX about 8 years ago.  Can't fault it.  It's a brilliant bike and done many thousands of miles on it  Will be riding it tomorrow on the Newport 200.

Just because it doesn't have Willier, Specialized, Canondale etc down the side doesn't make it a shit bike.

[Hot Flatus]

Its not snobbery, Paul. Its bitter experience.

Bought my first PX bike 12 years ago. It had a design fault which meant anything larger than an 11t sprocket on the cassette wouldnt fit. (Not the last time PX fucked up a design. Anybody remember their top carbon frame that could only accept Campag? ) They got a drawing wrong.

So I sent it back. They replaced it with one from a new batch. I could fit a wheel in the back this time but the steel forks were so noodly that desceding was appalling. I bought some carbon canti forks from them that they said were compatible. But the bike just had a mind of its own. So I sent it back. They sent me a replacement that worked. 3rd time lucky.

Then I bought a track chainset for a track frame. I feitted it and the chainline was 10cm out (    ) Turns out they'd cocked up the spacing and made them for 130mm spacing and not 120mm track standard.

Then I bough a pair of winter gloves. They work once. Because when you pull your fingers out the liner comes out with them and is impossible to put back. Etc etc etc.

Sometimes they get stuff right. Like their second generation TT bike (the first had well-reported issues). Maybe some of their other stuff is ok too.

[StuAff]

When their stuff's good, it's good- bought a couple of the long sleeve jerseys a few years back, still going strong. Nothing wrong with the big brand stuff they get in. And yes, there are many happy owners of their bikes, I know quite a few…but I also recall the wise mechanic of my old LBS telling me they saw more PXs needing work done than anything else. And their attitude to heritage brands they've bought sucks. Holdsworth & Carnac, as mentioned, to name but two, but the one that sticks in my craw is Viner. Proud and happy owner of one of the original (1947-2012) company's bikes. A beautiful piece of Italian engineering (all but their cheapest frames produced in Italy, many of them bespoke). PX bought the name, are trading off the reputation (currently promoting '70th anniversary' stuff), but flogging Chinese-made open mould frames identical to the ones they're selling under other names. Their 'Maxima RS 3.0/RS 4.0' models bear no resemblance to the Maximas produced by the true Viner company and their subcontractors like Marco Bertoletti (such as the original RS reviewed by Road.cc). I might buy Viner-labelled kit from them if it's cheap enough but I wouldn't touch those bikes with a bargepole.

[Hot Flatus]

Its a bit like the venerable Karrimor company. Once a purveyor of quality, now just a name owned by SportsDirect and slapped on any cheap chinese shit they want to put it on.

Ive had some good stuff from PX, mostly big brand stuff that they've got in on some sort of special deal and flog off cheap....but you really have to know what you are buying. Like those cheap Phaart rear lights they often sell for £2.50. Cheap as chips, and as long as you remember to ziptie the two halves together (so that they dont fall apart when you go over a bump) they are absolutely fine.

I suppose I should have ziptied the PX multitool i once bought that managed to disassemble itself into a thousand small pieces in my saddle pack.

[P Walsh]

A lot of snobbery going on here 

Bought my first PX about 8 years ago.  Can't fault it.  It's a brilliant bike and done many thousands of miles on it  Will be riding it tomorrow on the Newport 200.

Just because it doesn't have Willier, Specialized, Canondale etc down the side doesn't make it a shit bike.

It is not snobbery to trust one £300 frameset over another £300 frameset, both from places that focus on good value for money. The Spa offering is known to ride well and has tubes that we know about. The Planet X is more of a gamble.

[mattc]

Its a bit like the venerable Karrimor company. Once a purveyor of quality, now just a name owned by SportsDirect and slapped on any cheap chinese shit they want to put it on.

Ive had some good stuff from PX, mostly big brand stuff that they've got in on some sort of special deal and flog off cheap....but you really have to know what you are buying. Like those cheap Phaart rear lights they often sell for £2.50. Cheap as chips, and as long as you remember to ziptie the two halves together (so that they dont fall apart when you go over a bump) they are absolutely fine.

I suppose I should have ziptied the PX multitool i once bought that managed to disassemble itself into a thousand small pieces in my saddle pack.

I seem to have bought a completely different list of bits to Flatus, but I'd give pretty much the same summary!

[Duckfoot1606]

[/quote]

It is not snobbery to trust one £300 frameset over another £300 frameset, both from places that focus on good value for money. The Spa offering is known to ride well and has tubes that we know about. The Planet X is more of a gamble.
[/quote]

Thanks for all the input thus far, I think the view above is a good summary of the respective merits between a known quantity (Spa in this case) and Planet X, which appears to be so new that there is no apparent track record in a frameset of this type and so little to make an informed decision on. My only objection to the former is that it is black only, but then there is a strong case for function over form, I guess.

Thanks again for your thoughts

A

[TimC]

If it helps, I have a Planet X-produced Holdsworth Cyclone frame with which I'm extremely happy. It's built in Italy, not China, and the tubeset is Reynolds 525. There were no issues with the frame when I built it up, and it rides extremely well.

[IJL]

I was in Planet X today and the brevet looked very nice, the tubes aren't branded unlike some of the more expensive Holdsworth frames which are Columbus.  There was also a disc braked Holdsworth (Elan) which has lots of clearance and mounts for guards that looked very swish.  All of these seemed very good value.  I've never bought a bike from them but the staff always seem to know their stuff and I have bought other bits without issue.

Planet x seem to be a huge business selling vast numbers of bikes but I rarely see them out of the road

[JamieD]

Planet x seem to be a huge business selling vast numbers of bikes but I rarely see them out of the road

They're all in London. Commuting to work I see an interesting selection of Planet X bikes.

In terms of not appearing to fall apart in front of me they're doing as well as any other proper bike. That said a friend who bought the London Road has moaned about it pretty much from day 1 due to

1. Cables setup incorrectly

2. Wrong cable guide fitted

3. Dire wheels

4. Much heavier than is reasonable

5. Doesn't like SRAM as much as Shimano

[Hot Flatus]

Generally, you get what you pay for.

Sometimes, especially  if foolish, you get less than you paid for.

You almost never get more than you paid for.

[Planet X Paul]

Planet x seem to be a huge business selling vast numbers of bikes but I rarely see them out of the road

They're all in London. Commuting to work I see an interesting selection of Planet X bikes.

In terms of not appearing to fall apart in front of me they're doing as well as any other proper bike. That said a friend who bought the London Road has moaned about it pretty much from day 1 due to

1. Cables setup incorrectly

2. Wrong cable guide fitted

3. Dire wheels

4. Much heavier than is reasonable

5. Doesn't like SRAM as much as Shimano

I've got a London Road, and it's been absolutely fine for what I use it for.

No problem with cables or wheels.  Agree that it's quite heavy, but I do not intend doing LEL on it.  Running Sram Rval with absolutely no issues.

Just to add some balance, I hired a Pinarello while in Mallorca last year and was very unimpressed with it.  You could spend thousands for 'A Name' and still get nothing special. 

[Hot Flatus]

Could it take a 12t cassette?

[Cold Snail]

I don't know the Brevet but I recently bought a PX Holdsworth La Quelda SS frameset. I paid £80 for it when PX were having one of their regular sales. I do like the bike but frankly, I'm glad I didn't pay much more than that. Main complaint is that you only have to look at it for the paint to flake off.

Same here, but it was cheap enough.