Author Topic: Negotiating large roundabouts (Read 2727 times)

telstarbox · « **on:** 10 May, 2018, 01:31:39 pm »

Sometimes when I'm out riding solo I get to a multi-lane and/or signal-controlled roundabouts such as this one, typically going from the A224 north to south or vice versa. This is typically at off-peak times where there aren't too many vehicles, but consequently vehicles approach and circulate the roundabout at higher speeds.

My usual approach to this is "car style":
- On the approach, get into the left-most lane which is marked for my exit of choice
- Move onto the roundabout when safe
- Signal right while passing intermediate entries (to avoid being cut up by vehicles entering the rbt)
- Signal left (and move left as required) to exit the rbt

So far this has worked fine with slightly exaggerated signals and eye contact with waiting vehicles, but would it be better to dismount and use the pavement which is what I'd do with a group?

Kim · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 May, 2018, 01:42:27 pm »

I generally do the same. Strong primary position. For bonus points I'll turn my lights on and spin a slightly lower gear than usual to increase my visibility. Instead of indicating right, I'll generally be covering my brake in preparation for a bully or someone with a massive A-pillar entering the roundabout.

Biggest problem is when you have to deviate from your line to avoid surface hazards.

If the traffic's dense but not congested, or my approach is too uphill to achieve a reasonable speed, I'll use pedestrian tactics. Or take a route that avoids the roundabout entirely.

I'm more likely to chicken out if I'm not on a recumbent. While the better acceleration of an upright is helpful, the increased bullying from drivers really isn't.

Ham · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 May, 2018, 02:14:30 pm »

'ere's the deal: Junctions are dangerous places on the roads. Roundabouts are dangerous places because they are multiple junctions. Big roundabouts are even more dangerous. It doesn't matter whether you are on a bike, on foot, in a car. They are dangerous. You can adopt mitigating strategies all you like, but you have to realise that riding a roundabout has risk that you can't control. Drivers looking for exits, not looking at exits, looking at their phone, you name it. That was forcibly brought home to me a few years back when I was rear ended, doing about 20+, coming off Hyde Park Corner by a driver who just didn't see me. Fortunately, as the speed differential wasn't that great (and it must have been quite square to my rear) I just got pinged forward, but my trousers were definitely a little browner.

So, when cycling I ride car-like, and try to fit myself into the traffic flow, but as often as not I would try to avoid these days. And, if it was particularly nasty, I might even wuss out and cross as a ped, or a bike equivalent (stop on the left kerb before crossing when clear or stopped.

orienteer · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 May, 2018, 02:40:46 pm »

+1

Local roundabouts are now difficult enough in car, let alone on a bike, one reason why I rarely cycle from home these days, but prefer to drive elsewhere first.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 May, 2018, 03:13:13 pm »

Negotiating large roundabouts can depend on local knowledge or observation.

Typically, a lot of the traffic will be exiting down a major slipway or off to a busy road - if you are going past that exit, you don't want to be crossing the flow of exiting cars.
So where should you be?
right hard tight against the kerb of the inner circle of the roundabout.
Car drivers are moving left to pull off, not scraping the inner circle. It is the safest place to be.

The awkward maneuver is if you are taking the second junction and a lot of traffic is coming off at the 1st and 3rd junctions, plus it is fast moving. In that case you have no option but to take the lane in the outermost lane. If you are lucky, there will be an arctic on the roundabout, in which case tag along with them if you can - they often sweep the roundabout clear a bit and you can use them as a mobile wall between yourself and cars changing lanes.

Manotea · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 May, 2018, 03:26:27 pm »

This is a bit of a "Wrong Question". There are no hard and fast rules... it all depends on local conditions and these change minute to minute.

Do whatever it is that seems most appropriate and makes you feel most secure.

I'll dismount simply to cross a small junction if that seems safest/most expedient.

On the other hand I'll happily ride round the Hanger Lane (A40/A406 intersection) or Hyde Park Corner.

The only right answer is to be observant, be patient, and ride safe.

Thing is, should an accident happen (for any possibly definition of accident), who was right or wrong will not alter the fact that in a collision involving a motor vehicle and a cyclist, the cyclist will generally come off worse. Scary but true. All we can do is keep our wits about us and ride to the local traffic conditions.

rr · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 May, 2018, 04:25:44 pm »

Primary, in car appropriate lane and try to use another vehicle as a shield.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

ian · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 May, 2018, 05:04:28 pm »

If if doubt, there's no shame in getting off and using the pedestrian route. I was tried and tested on the E&C before they jazzed it up, which wasn't the worst, but still had its gladiatorial moments. The worse thing was that you can't control vehicle-based stupidness and on bike you're going to come off worse when a car driver decides that oh, that exit and drives through you. I think roundabouts are on the biggest impediments to cycling, a big fast roundabout will challenge all but the fittest most confident cyclists. They're usually not pleasant in cars and a big source of accidents.

Anyway, if I'm unfamiliar with the layout or it looks scary, I'll usually get off and push. Otherwise, I'll take primary and make myself as visible as possible.

The Family Cyclist · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 May, 2018, 08:30:17 pm »

Thankfully I don't have to do many big roundabouts but I am very vocal and assertive when needed. Make sure your properly clipped in, don't want to be on one pedal trying to accelerate into position.

rogerdodge · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 May, 2018, 10:48:16 am »

Pretty much as rr said (primary and correct lane) but I'd add that I avoid filtering on the approach so that the driver behind has a bit more sympathy for me and knows that I'm in front because I got there first.

TigaSefi · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 May, 2018, 06:53:21 pm »

For example, the roundabout at Trafalgar Square = I mount the pavement and hot foot it to the road i need to be on. I ain't got time to be chancing my life with WVM and buses keeping to a schedule but most roundabouts I just take primary and smash it as hard as I can and get off it quickly. Brings me to another appallingly designed place which is the Vauxhall gyratory "roundabout". I just take a few minutes longer and use the cycle provision to get to Nine Elms. The amount of times cars crash into each other even exiting the same junction is very high!

vorsprung · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 May, 2018, 08:51:30 pm »

agree with primary and correct lanes

also hyper acceleration due to adrenalin is useful

rogerzilla · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 May, 2018, 11:13:14 am »

Ride bloody fast, don't assume anyone will see you, expect cars to undertake when you try to leave the roundabout. Motorway/DC junction roundabouts are always massive because they're straddling a 4 or 6 lane road, and are like the Monaco GP.

Jakob W · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 May, 2018, 11:17:05 am »

Just yesterday: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-dies-after-being-hit-by-lorry-on-notorious-woolwich-roundabout-a3843191.html

From discussion on LFGSS, this is the third cyclist's death on that roundabout in recent years.

inappropriate_bike · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 May, 2018, 03:01:40 pm »

Wish they would re-time the lights at Hyde Park Corner.

As it is today cyclists are incentivised (with a shorter wait time) to cycle around it instead of accross it which is just bloody stupid.

It's especially bad going from Hyde Park to the Mall, where you get a minimum of 2 long-phase red lights on the safe route - and as few as 0 if you risk riding in heavy traffic.

telstarbox · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 May, 2018, 03:29:35 pm »

Judging by the number of cyclists that still use the "across" option, it's probably a time penalty worth paying as HPC is six lanes wide at some points.

Sometimes "retiming the lights" isn't as straightforward as it sounds - there are several pedestrian crossings and some of them can only go while other traffic movements are stopped and vice versa.

ian · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 May, 2018, 05:37:55 pm »

It might be better to ask why central London needs a six-lane gyratory.

telstarbox · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 May, 2018, 05:42:14 pm »

Yes, that as well!

Jakob W · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 May, 2018, 07:38:42 pm »

I bloody hate HPC - I don't use it often enough to have worked out what the safe option for getting onto the quiet route into Mayfair is (I'm usually going South Ken - Soho), so usually end up getting spat out of the park and having to cross lanes of traffic for the right turn across Pall Mall. I'm usually on a TfL bike, so carrying it down the underpass is suboptimal; is there a recommended route?

arabella · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 May, 2018, 09:54:56 pm »

I'm curious:
if the RAB is traffic light controlled then it doesn't matter
if it isn't then why is walking across the entrance/exit and less risky than cycling across it

In other news, I asked the TFL website for a cycle route out of London towards Writtle.
It decided that the A12, including the A12/M25 RAB and then more A12 was the thing for me.
I'm not going to follow their suggestion