Author Topic: training schedule for a teenager (Read 5043 times)

mrcharly-YHT · « **on:** 02 January, 2009, 02:05:38 pm »

My 16-yr-old tried a few time trials last year, and wants get more serious about training for this year. He doesn't have a heart rate monitor.

My thoughts are that he needs to start with long slow distance for a couple of months (he hasn't done much distance riding). About 3 sessions a week of 1.5-2hrs each.

Then drop that down to 1 2-2.5hr lsd a week, add some mixed pace riding 3 days a week, of about 1 -1.5hrs.

Then replace 2 of the mixed pace sessions with 1 speed session and one gentle pootle recovery.

What do you think?

chris · « **Reply #1 on:** 02 January, 2009, 02:16:40 pm »

Not sure about training, sounds too serious to me, but Lidl have HRMs for a fiver from next Monday.

gonzo · « **Reply #2 on:** 03 January, 2009, 09:09:06 am »

I'm currently working my through the cyclists training bible. It's a great read and one that I'd highly recommend to you for planning training.

What it said confirms what I've always been told. Training at a young age should not involve a lot of hours it should be based on having fun. The book even goes as far as saying that you should limit training hours to 400 hours per year below 17 years old.

Basically, the more structured your program is, the less it will be enjoyed and if it ceases to be fun at all then there's a good chance that the person will give it up all together. I've done it after very regimented training, a mate's just done it and people will keep on doing it!

Manotea · « **Reply #3 on:** 03 January, 2009, 09:41:05 am »

My best advice would be to have a chat with local clubs. Established clubs will be eager for new blood and will have programs to bring on new/young riders. Despite the bad press clubs get on forums like this, they are not just about racing. Learning to ride in close formation and practising 'through and off' drills are pretty exciting in themselves (and don't underestimate the inspiration mixing with 'real cyclists' offers, especially for teenagers).

My club, Willesden CC help run twice weekly training sessions at Hillingdon (a closed circuit) for all performance/age groups and Slipstreamers in West London.

gonzo · « **Reply #4 on:** 03 January, 2009, 10:06:20 am »

I'v also seen a great club doing similar to what Manotea says at castle combe. I think it was the Chippenham wheelers.

saturn · « **Reply #5 on:** 03 January, 2009, 10:48:43 am »

+1 for a good local club. You don't have to do everything that a club does, just cherry pick the bits that are useful to him.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #6 on:** 04 January, 2009, 10:43:59 am »

He's joined a local club, but isn't up to riding with them yet. They are a bit hardcore.

I'm looking for something to lift his fitness up a bit. He needs more stamina, he can keep up evens for nearly 20m now. Just short on stamina.

I've followed the club (clifton cycles) for a quarter mile or so sometimes. Their group training rides tend to push 25mph, sustained.

saturn · « **Reply #7 on:** 04 January, 2009, 11:10:27 am »

That club has a problem then. Either encourage them to offer something for youngsters or try to find another club that does.

andygates · « **Reply #8 on:** 04 January, 2009, 12:24:17 pm »

Aye, they do. Junior development is why we got a load of shinies in Beijing, after all...

If the kid shows promise, don't be afraid to push him to develop it. Not "crazy pushy parents" push, so much as "don't let the slack creep in" push -- at that age if he has talent then he'll improve fast and it'll build a great base for life.

David Martin · « **Reply #9 on:** 04 January, 2009, 01:54:35 pm »

Have you tried the British Cycling 'find a club' to see if there are others around?

Or have you approached the club to see whether there are other sessions where the pace is a bit lower?

..d

gonzo · « **Reply #10 on:** 04 January, 2009, 02:25:35 pm »

Quote from: andygates on 04 January, 2009, 12:24:17 pm

If the kid shows promise, don't be afraid to push him to develop it. Not "crazy pushy parents" push, so much as "don't let the slack creep in" push -- at that age if he has talent then he'll improve fast and it'll build a great base for life.

Push too hard and he'll simply quit as a lot of young riders do. If I was in your position, I'd get in touch with a coach who knows how to train young riders to provide structured training and then I'd step back. I'd make sure that I was there for support, but only provide it when asked.

Manotea · « **Reply #11 on:** 04 January, 2009, 02:59:39 pm »

Quote from: mrcharly on 04 January, 2009, 10:43:59 am

He's joined a local club, but isn't up to riding with them yet. They are a bit hardcore.

I'm looking for something to lift his fitness up a bit. He needs more stamina, he can keep up evens for nearly 20m now. Just short on stamina.

I've followed the club (clifton cycles) for a quarter mile or so sometimes. Their group training rides tend to push 25mph, sustained.

Thats the sort of pace the Willesden/Quest development group do. I've never been close to being able to ride at that pace. If that's all they have to offer then best look for another club.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #12 on:** 05 January, 2009, 11:18:42 am »

Being realistic, he doesn't have 'potential'. Genetics and damaged lungs are against him, plus he smokes.

I'd just like to help him enjoy himself.

I do think the club has a bit of a problem, they don't seem to provide much during winter.

He's getting a bit quicker - went out for a 60k ride on Sat and did the first 29k in 48min (so he reports). I think he lacks stamina, and he's scared of longer rides.

Would love to take him out for a long ride myself, by it is very difficult to get a whole day free.

gonzo · « **Reply #13 on:** 05 January, 2009, 12:45:35 pm »

I had this discussion with someone on another forum a while back. We concluded that; although genetics could stop you becoming a pro-tour rider, they wouldn't stop you riding with the best in the UK.

I'll re-iterate the basis of all influential people with regards to training recommendations:
- Start of by building a base. Intervals are the icing on the cake and without a base, you've not got a cake to put them on. The other way to look at it is as a pyramid. The base training is the bottom level. The bigger the base, the higher you can go.
- Base training requires going easily. You don't build a base by thrashing yourself at this time of year.
- Don't increase duration too rapidly. Some say that 10% per week is too much of an increase. Personally, that works well for me.

I'll recommend the Cyclist training bible again as it is the best training book written to date.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #14 on:** 05 January, 2009, 01:21:04 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 05 January, 2009, 12:45:35 pm

I'll recommend the Cyclist training bible again as it is the best training book written to date.

I sense an appropriate birthday present for the boy.

Thanks, Gonzo, you've echoed what I've been telling him. Basically, get lots of gentle miles in your legs, and don't go out thrashing yourself all the time.

gonzo · « **Reply #15 on:** 05 January, 2009, 01:25:27 pm »

No problem.

There are lots of things you can do to spice up, and add challenge to, low intensity workouts if he's getting bored of them.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #16 on:** 05 January, 2009, 02:26:45 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 05 January, 2009, 01:25:27 pm

No problem.

There are lots of things you can do to spice up, and add challenge to, low intensity workouts if he's getting bored of them.

He hasn't done any yet, lol.

Boredom before starting. Teenagers!

David Martin · « **Reply #17 on:** 05 January, 2009, 09:19:45 pm »

Quote from: mrcharly on 05 January, 2009, 01:21:04 pm

Quote from: gonzo on 05 January, 2009, 12:45:35 pm
I'll recommend the Cyclist training bible again as it is the best training book written to date.

I sense an appropriate birthday present for the boy.

Thanks, Gonzo, you've echoed what I've been telling him. Basically, get lots of gentle miles in your legs, and don't go out thrashing yourself all the time.

Not gentle miles, time. What you are doing is getting the muscles used to working continuously for a period of time.

<cod physiology follows>
Look at how the body burns fuel. For the first 10 seconds it is pure ATP. For the next 10 minutes it is available glucose, then glycogen breakdown to glucose for the next 45-60 mins. Then it becomes a case of being able to replenish that glycogen which you do either by eating or by breaking down stores of fat. Both are possible but you cannot break down fat fast enough to replenish glycogen at even a moderate pace.

To enable delivery of glucose to the muscles you need to put a strain on the body so it responds by increasing the blood supply. It does this in two ways, increasing the pulse rate and increasing the blood vessels feeding the muscles. Developing these takes time (and also explains why a seasoned racer can take a year off, be really unfit, and then be back to race pace in a sickeningly short space of time- they already have the apparatus.) - quite literally. You need to ride far enough to put a suitable strain on the legs (at least 90 mins, preferably longer) and over a period of time. The other advantage of the improved blood supply is better lactate clearance, which means you can go harder for longer.

Long easy miles will not do this. You need to feel that you are putting in some effort (though not necesarily much so level 2 rather than 1. Pushing too hard will get you into lactate hell or hunger knock. A brisk ride of a couple of hours to a cafe and back without too long a faff would be good to work up to - even better are rendezvous rides where he can take a longer route than the slow potterers and aim to get there before them.

As variety, if he can only find time for short rides, then make them as hard as possible to build strength and speed (the long rides will build endurance).

There are lots of things to work on, and they all work in different ways. Setting personal challenges such as distance travelled are always good. Even better if you have a shortish loop that can be ridden when he gets back from a ride to just tag on those few extra miles.

..d

gonzo · « **Reply #18 on:** 05 January, 2009, 09:45:23 pm »

David - I may be missing something (which is quite likely - I'm not a bio-sports-coaching person, but my understanding of your advice about "feeling that you're putting in some effort" goes against everything I've heard and read. Unless you mean that these rides should be 70-75%max HR. Lactate threshold stuff will be around 80-85% for an untrained athlete and riding near these limits won't achieve the base that any aspiring racer needs.

Regarding making all short rides hard...that seems somewhat counter-productive. You build strength by specific low cadence work or in the gym for example. Just telling someone to go fast could result in someone riding at 100+rpm which will mainly work on aerobic capacity of muscles.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #19 on:** 05 January, 2009, 09:51:26 pm »

I do have some knowledge of sport and training. I don't agree with you, David.

you can't compare an untrained teenager to an experienced athlete. They already have developed the blood supply.

My son needs to develop that before doing speed and strength work.

Jasmine · « **Reply #20 on:** 06 January, 2009, 12:11:23 pm »

Quote from: mrcharly on 04 January, 2009, 10:43:59 am

He's joined a local club, but isn't up to riding with them yet. They are a bit hardcore.

I'm looking for something to lift his fitness up a bit. He needs more stamina, he can keep up evens for nearly 20m now. Just short on stamina.

I've followed the club (clifton cycles) for a quarter mile or so sometimes. Their group training rides tend to push 25mph, sustained.

As David said upthread, have you asked the club if they have slightly slower rides? Some clubs will have a slower group.

I probably ride a similar pace to your son (evens for just over an hour) when solo, but if I ride with a pack I can ride considerably faster. When I ride on the club run I can keep up a 23-24 mph pace if I peal off after a *very* short time on the front (or miss my turn entirely). If I get dropped on hills there is usually someone to help me back in to the pack.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #21 on:** 06 January, 2009, 01:17:21 pm »

son says he's asked them and the answer is no.

I think I'll email them myself. I suspect the answer will be to get out and ride, until spring arrives.

Son's effort this sat was the fastest he'd ever been for any distance, and has totally wiped him out for 2 days. That's not good base training.

David Martin · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 January, 2009, 02:42:46 pm »

Quote from: mrcharly on 06 January, 2009, 01:17:21 pm

son says he's asked them and the answer is no.

I think I'll email them myself. I suspect the answer will be to get out and ride, until spring arrives.

Son's effort this sat was the fastest he'd ever been for any distance, and has totally wiped him out for 2 days. That's not good base training.

If you go out and ride long steady miles then you are training yourself to do long steady miles. A hard effort twice a week (with recovery time etc.) will train you to ride harder.

So it may not be such bad base training after all. Sounds like a good effort, keep it up. I have a real problem doing anything the day after the club training rides. But over the season I improve dramatically.

..d

gonzo · « **Reply #23 on:** 08 January, 2009, 09:58:03 pm »

Quote from: David Martin on 08 January, 2009, 02:42:46 pm

Quote from: mrcharly on 06 January, 2009, 01:17:21 pm
son says he's asked them and the answer is no.

I think I'll email them myself. I suspect the answer will be to get out and ride, until spring arrives.

Son's effort this sat was the fastest he'd ever been for any distance, and has totally wiped him out for 2 days. That's not good base training.

If you go out and ride long steady miles then you are training yourself to do long steady miles. A hard effort twice a week (with recovery time etc.) will train you to ride harder.

So it may not be such bad base training after all. Sounds like a good effort, keep it up. I have a real problem doing anything the day after the club training rides. But over the season I improve dramatically.

..d

Read up on periodisation. Basically, you aren't strong for the whole year, but when you're strong, you're much stronger. If you out and do long steady miles, you're improving a lot more than just your bodies ability to ride long and slow.

I'd recommend the cyclists training bible to you too. Great book and it explains why that training idea isn't great.