Author Topic: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin  (Read 592 times)

London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« on: August 07, 2017, 06:15:39 pm »
Should he have been booed?  Or was the protest against the IAAF?

IMO he should not have been there.

Gatlin was coached by Trevor Graham. Among athletes Graham has coached, eight have tested positive or received bans for performance-enhancing drugs.
Sic transit and all that..

Wowbagger

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 06:33:31 pm »
I don't normally take a lot of notice of athletics, but Bolt's reaction seemed to me to be one of pure generous sportsmanship, especially if Gatlin is something of a pariah.

Mr Larrington

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 10:12:02 pm »
Pleasing to see the BRITONS 4x100m relay team the beating double drug cheat and his homies into second place, though sadly U Bolt managed to break himself on the last leg.
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mattc

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 08:19:52 am »
Should he have been booed?  Or was the protest against the IAAF?

IMO he should not have been there.

Gatlin was coached by Trevor Graham. Among athletes Graham has coached, eight have tested positive or received bans for performance-enhancing drugs.

If they were protesting against the IAAF, then it was a clumsy way of doing it. No, they shouldn't boo an athlete - he didn't make the rules.

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LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 08:24:23 am »
Booing Gatlin was showing general disapproval that he was able to compete. That approach seems to have been somewhat more effective than what happened previously i.e. nothing.
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mattc

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 08:38:22 am »
Booing Gatlin was showing general disapproval that he was able to compete. That approach seems to have been somewhat more effective than what happened previously i.e. nothing.
It wasn't effective at all! He ran, and he won.



But this is a side-show - I had moist eyes twice last night:

Once as our boys won the bloody relay.
And once when Mo was dragged to his feet by his victors.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 08:48:08 am »
I'd be interested in the Gaitlin controversy if he'd denied Bolt of a final Gold. But he was behind Coleman, who's the neglected figure.

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 08:50:17 am »
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 11:14:51 am »
I don't think Gatlin should be allowed to compete. He's had two drugs bans and obviously learnt nothing from the first one. I am very sad for both Mo and Usain; I hoped they would go out on golds. Delighted for the GB men and women's 4x100 teams. Astonished that anyone would retire from running 5ks and 10ks to move up to marathons!
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mattc

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 04:31:52 pm »
The booing seems to have prodded athletics to look at itself just a little more critically than previously.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/aug/07/iaaf-sebastian-coe-complacency-100m-final-jeers-world-championships-gatlin-bolt

I don't see any new action in that article - do you?  :-\

But it does highlight how happy the crowd generally are with dopers:
"
... including Amantle Montsho, the former world 400m world champion who was cheered on Sunday despite a doping ban.
"


Clearly booing Gatlin had no effect whatsoever - it just created a nasty atmosphere (and the guy still won).

I'm very much in favour of protest, so if you want to organise a protest against IAAF or WADA decision, go for it. Both bodies make plenty of mistakes, so by alll means criticise their work!

Booing an athelete who is just playing by the rules as they stand is no better than whining Its not fair! and stamping your foot.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 05:03:23 pm »
You just keep doing what you're doing Matt. It is obviously making a difference in discouraging doping.
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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 08:25:07 pm »
Semenya  ::-) ???
That's not normal.  Not my idea of fair, or a level playing field.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 09:03:18 pm »
Semenya  ::-) ???
That's not normal.  Not my idea of fair, or a level playing field.
She's a she, not a "that."
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 09:11:41 pm »
She is a she with the testosterone of a man. Most women can only do that by injections (doping).
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 09:14:30 pm »
She's still not a "that."
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Feanor

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2017, 09:28:16 pm »
Semenya  ::-) ???
That's not normal.  Not my idea of fair, or a level playing field.
She's a she, not a "that."

I didn't read the post as calling the individual 'that'.
I read it as saying 'That's not normal', as in 'The event under discussion is not normal'.

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2017, 09:30:25 pm »
Is it a normal situation that undoped women must race against a woman with the testosterone of a man? 'That' situation might be considered not normal. 'That' might not be referring to the person.
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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2017, 09:43:39 pm »
She is a she with the testosterone of a man. Most women can only do that by injections (doping).

Given that testosterone levels vary widely for both men and women, where, if at all, would you draw the line?  Or should sports move to divisions based on something other than gender?

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2017, 09:47:33 pm »
Shall we do it like drag (car) racing, with Stock, Super Stock and Top Fuel categories?
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Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2017, 10:11:02 pm »
Semenya  ::-) ???
That's not normal.  Not my idea of fair, or a level playing field.
She's a she, not a "that."

I didn't read the post as calling the individual 'that'.
I read it as saying 'That's not normal', as in 'The event under discussion is not normal'.
But the thing being discussed is Semenya. That's what the post says. Not Castor Semenya's ability - that's not normal. Or Castor Semenya's physique - that's not normal. It just says "Semenya. That's not normal" so I don't see how to take it any other way than referring to her as a that.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 10:16:58 pm »
I can see why you think that but at least two people in this thread read it differently.
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Ben T

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2017, 09:54:29 am »
Think the reporting of the 5k was a bit off - all about Mo Farah and what a shame he "only" came 2nd. What about the poor winner? No-one even knows who he is!
We are where we are.

Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 10:07:37 am »
She's still not a "that."
Saying "she's not fair, she's not my idea of a level playing field" wouldn't make sense, though.  If you want to misconstrue my thoughts, though, go ahead.  I'll try to make everything very unambiguous in the future.

If her (HER) hyperandrogenism doesn't give her an unfair advantage, she's not doing a very good job of demonstrating that she doesn't have an unfair advantage.  She was about half a second behind Niyonsaba as they came out of the final bend, and finished 0.76s ahead - a difference of about 1.25s (9%!) in 14s of running.  Winning this race is a Pyrrhic victory for Semenya, because all it does is underline how unsuitable the current competition rules are.

Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 09:00:36 am »
She is a she with the testosterone of a man. Most women can only do that by injections (doping).

Given that testosterone levels vary widely for both men and women, where, if at all, would you draw the line?  Or should sports move to divisions based on something other than gender?

They do, but when the IAAF put a testosterone limit in place that limit was 3 times the 99th percentile of testosterone levels in the female population.  99% of women (actually female athletes) have a testosterone level below 3 nmol/L.  The limit was placed at 10 nmol/L, requiring female athletes to take testosterone blockers to reduce it to within the allowable range. CAS overturned the IAAF's requirement because they didn't have enough data that it gives an unfair competitive advantage.


LEE

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Re: London 2017 World Championships - Gatlin
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 03:35:52 pm »
Semenya  ::-) ???
That's not normal.  Not my idea of fair, or a level playing field.

She was born with a physical advantage.  So was Usain Bolt.  So were many of the most legendary athletes.  Training plays just a part at the very highest levels. 
Wiggo had an FTP of around 470Watts.  You need to be born with a physical advantage to be able to train to that sort of level.  Training isn't enough for a mortal.

Athletics isn't a level playing field or Stephen Hawking would be in the 100m final.

As for Gatlin..well it's bound to happen when you have lenient sentences.  The booing is inconsistent when you consider all the drugs cheats still competing though.  He's far from being the only one.
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