Author Topic: Beta-blockers?  (Read 2889 times)

Beta-blockers?
« on: 15 August, 2017, 12:42:48 am »
As my occasional migraines have developed into more or less chronic migraines over the last couple of years, I ended up seeing a migraine specialist, who has then put me on beta-blockers, as it's supposed to be good for preventing migraines.
I'm on half a dose for the first month and while there's been no effect on the migraines (yet), I do in general feel more sore and sleep like shit. (I have no trouble falling asleep, just don't see to sleep that well).
Anyone else experienced similar?

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #1 on: 15 August, 2017, 08:04:03 am »
I didn't get sore - just felt completely zombiefied. They didn't deal with the migraines, but do work for some people.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

whosatthewheel

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #2 on: 15 August, 2017, 08:30:01 am »
It will get worse once you get on your bike and realise you can't go very far or very fast.

Beta Blockers are abused, IMO they should only be prescribed for the very reason they were patented: to treat high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #3 on: 15 August, 2017, 09:01:02 am »
It will get worse once you get on your bike and realise you can't go very far or very fast.

Beta Blockers are abused, IMO they should only be prescribed for the very reason they were patented: to treat high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease

Hmm, pretty hard to argue with a neurologist specializing in headaches/migraines.
 I'm about as unfit as I've ever been, so it'll be hard to judge impact on fitness. Went to kendo practice tonight for the first time in 3 months and it was about as bad as I would have expected.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #4 on: 15 August, 2017, 09:05:43 am »
Moderate levels of exertion will be unaffected. As soon as you do something intense (try running up stairs, climbing hills) you'll find your heart is on a speed limiter.

I think they like doling out the beta blockers because the side effects are not damaging. If they work to treat the migraines, then its a medical safe treatment.

My current drug is really effective for treating the migraines, but the side-effects are fairly unpleasant (mostly psychological).
<i>Marmite slave</i>

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #5 on: 15 August, 2017, 09:26:40 am »
I BELIEVE that this chap is on blockers, so could be a useful source of info. (apologies if I am wrong about this  :-\ ). You can decide from his post how hard he rides:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93277.msg2186903#msg2186903
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

whosatthewheel

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #6 on: 15 August, 2017, 09:32:56 am »
It will get worse once you get on your bike and realise you can't go very far or very fast.

Beta Blockers are abused, IMO they should only be prescribed for the very reason they were patented: to treat high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease

Hmm, pretty hard to argue with a neurologist specializing in headaches/migraines.


It is indeed hard to argue... the problem with doctors is they treat you in the same way they would treat someone who doesn't do any sport. As above, the problem only arises if you want to push yourself a bit harder

IJL

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #7 on: 15 August, 2017, 09:47:41 am »
Quote
Beta Blockers are abused, IMO they should only be prescribed for the very reason they were patented: to treat high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease

Propranolol is licenced for use in migraine and has been used in this way for years.  Unfortunately there isn't a huge range of options to treat or prevent migraine.  By the time you get referred to a specialist you have probably tried most things.   i'm surprised anyone would get referred without already having tried a Beta blocker it's normally something that would be prescribed in general practice

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #8 on: 15 August, 2017, 10:31:26 am »
BTDT, didn't work for me either, but then my doc was at the point of trying anything at all. It was deemed "not Migraine" by a paeds neuro but that was 1995, this is now 2017 and I'm told a lot of my symptoms were probably migraine linked to my vestibular fail.

I have an appt at headache clinic in 8 days time, specialist nurse run clinic. No idea what meds they'll try me on but neuro has asked for prophylactic meds. Should write a list of what I've already tried...

Zipperhead

  • The cyclist formerly known as Big Helga
Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #9 on: 15 August, 2017, 01:26:17 pm »
Quote
Beta Blockers are abused, IMO they should only be prescribed for the very reason they were patented: to treat high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease

Propranolol is licenced for use in migraine and has been used in this way for years.  Unfortunately there isn't a huge range of options to treat or prevent migraine.  By the time you get referred to a specialist you have probably tried most things.   i'm surprised anyone would get referred without already having tried a Beta blocker it's normally something that would be prescribed in general practice

I've been taking Propranolol for migrains for about 4 years now. Like the OP they interfere with my sleep, they knocked 15 or 20% off my cruising speed and for the first month I would wake up screaming because of the nightmares.

But, they've cured the headaches and migraines. Last year I tried to reduce the dose (after discussing it with my doc) and after 10 days the constant headache returned, after two weeks of that a 3 day migraine, so I upped the dose again.
Won't somebody think of the hamsters!

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #10 on: 15 August, 2017, 04:38:38 pm »
I'm about as unfit as I've ever been, so it'll be hard to judge impact on fitness. Went to kendo practice tonight for the first time in 3 months and it was about as bad as I would have expected.

I had 3 years of the bloody things, and how much I loved them you can judge from the previous clause.  They put a brake on your heart.  Hills I had previously soared up I crawled up with legs that hurt like hell if my heart went over 130 bpm. I had to slow down to walking pace every 50 metres to let the pain die down.  I couldn't train properly, and when in 2011 I finally got rid of them I wasn't fit enough to qualify for PBP.

Then it turned out that, according to my GP, I had probably never needed them, but "cardiologists like to prescribe them to protect themselves". :demon:
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #11 on: 15 August, 2017, 06:07:57 pm »
It will get worse once you get on your bike and realise you can't go very far or very fast.

Beta Blockers are abused, IMO they should only be prescribed for the very reason they were patented: to treat high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease

Hmm, pretty hard to argue with a neurologist specializing in headaches/migraines.


It is indeed hard to argue... the problem with doctors is they treat you in the same way they would treat someone who doesn't do any sport. As above, the problem only arises if you want to push yourself a bit harder

He's a cyclist and there was one other drug he talked about (I forgot the name), so if I find it intolerable, there is one more option.
However, I would happily swap a 15-20% drop in performance if the bloody headaches/migraines went away.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #12 on: 15 August, 2017, 11:19:01 pm »
I got told by my gp he had run out of drug options he's allowed to prescribe so he referred me to a specialist pain clinic.

I went to the clinic and the specialist said I was an awkward case. I suffered with serious migraines at a frequency greater that fitted between two treatment regimes. More often than when drugs to reduce affect of attacks when you get them, but less than daily drugs to prevent attacks. I've been on both types of drugs before that the gp could prescribe with little effect.

So the specialist prescribed beta blockers in.half strength. I chickened out after second-hand advice from a doctor who'd tried beta blockers for migraines with bad results (second-hand in that the doctor gave it to a nurse who was a mutual friend I got to ask around about the drug).

I then went back to my gp who had received the letter from the specialist about treatment options. She prescribed a prophylactic that had evidence supporting rapid absorption into the blood. It melts on your tongue and is absorbed there instead of the stomach. In my case the stomach shuts down in the very early stages of a migraine.

That drug didn't work so I went to the gp again. She then prescribed an antidepressant drug. Another recommendation from the specialist. I have two packs of it untouched after reading up on it.

I'm now back on the prophylactic wafer drug. It worked for the first time recently. It's amazing when a drug works with migraines. Weird but good.

So after all this ramble my only advice is you have to decide what you're happy with. If you're happy with migraines don't take anything. If not then decide how serious a drug you're willing to take to stop, prevent or minimize migraine attacks. I'm not.happy taking antidepressants or beta blockers for migraines. That leaves me with the wafer prophylactic. If it works I'm ecstatic. If it doesn't I suffer and move on. I've learnt to cope with migraines, even truly bad ones.

I used to not cope very well. Now I have a young child I have a reason to cope better. By that I mean I don't want to worry him so I hide it more. I'll go to bed and if he comes in I'll talk to him, play with him and send him on his way completely unaware I've got a very painful headache, my vision is messed up with visual distortions, I've got a really bad aura that's making me close to throwing up and one side of my body is a bit numb/dead.

BTW regular exercise seems to reduce the frequency of my attacks. Cycling is very good preventative treatment in my case. That and eat well especially on a Friday (poor diet Friday = Sunday/Monday migraine).

Good luck in managing your migraines whichever way you choose. Remember your treatment is your choice as much as that of the specialist/gp. Find your treatment comfort zone.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #13 on: 15 August, 2017, 11:27:32 pm »
What is the active ingredient in the prophylactic wafer?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #14 on: 15 August, 2017, 11:44:08 pm »
Most likely a triptan of some sorts? I now got these 1-use nasal spray things. Supposed to work a lot quicker and requires smaller dosage.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #15 on: 16 August, 2017, 09:56:19 am »
Rizatriptan. Various trade names to it but that's the chemical. Maxalt melt is one trade name.

I was prescribed those one shot nasal sprays by my gp on the understanding it gets absorbed quicker and absorbed when your stomach has shut down. The pain clinic consultant said there is no evidence they are any more efficient and effective in getting the drug into your system than tablets. He said the only oral or nasal drug delivery method that's got any evidence of increased efficiency and effectiveness is the wafer on the tongue. That's for migraine drugs like triptans.

If those nasal sprays work for you then that's great but if they don't I would see your gp and ask if you can try the wafers. Rizatriptan in wafer form.

Actually I got one in a completely flat wafer form but later they came as flatter tablets. They have a better success rate than the spray did with me. In fact I had a migraine early in the morning on the Monday before this Monday. I took a paracetamol first thinking it was a headache but 5 minutes later it occurred to me it was more like a migraine so I took a wafer. I had a very mild set of migraine symptoms that passed through incredibly quickly. I had an attack that was very mild and lasted at most 4 hours beginning to the end with no symptoms. I've had that once before in 30 years plus and that time it took a day later to lose the residual symptoms. This time I was fit enough to go to work before midday and last a half day in front of a computer screen.

So, whilst it doesn't always work for me, I would certainly recommend the rizatriptan wafers. I've now got two in my wallet I'm that impressed. So the little bump.in the wallet isn't a condom but rizatriptan! :D

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #16 on: 16 August, 2017, 10:19:28 am »
Have you tried soluble aspirin?

Triptans were not suggested to me, I guess because of the frequency of my episodes.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #17 on: 16 August, 2017, 11:43:30 pm »
Too often or not very often? High or low frequency?

I tend to get clusters because once I get one bad attack I'm at high risk of getting several then nothing for a long time. I also have bad times of the year for them. Spring is.a major high risk time for me.

At the time of my.referral to the pain clinic was when I was going through an extended bad spell. I was getting more frequent attacks than protocol recommends a drug to take on the early signs if a migraine but less than they'd recommend daily preventative drugs (beta blockers, etc.). He gave me the option which way I wanted to go then said he'd go for beta blockers if he was me. I did that but didn't take them.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #18 on: 17 August, 2017, 03:08:07 am »
I was getting multiple attacks a day. Reading up on triptans, they seem more geared towards treating the 'pain' type migraine as well, which is totally different to the type of migraine that i get.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #19 on: 17 August, 2017, 08:13:41 pm »
Neither my GP not the neurologist had any major concerns over frequent (near daily) use of triptans, but the neurologist especially would much rather prevent them in the first place.
I can, for most of the time, function without them, but it's not pleasant. No auro, etc, 'just' headache and nausea.

For those on beta-blockers, how long before they made any difference? It's my understanding that they  take a while to build up.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #20 on: 22 August, 2017, 09:28:56 pm »
An older chap in Beacon RCC was on beta blockers and used to (without medical approval) skip them on Sundays so he could keep up with the club run.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #21 on: 23 August, 2017, 12:25:06 am »
Well, if anything they've made things worse. Went to full dose a week earlier than planned, as I've had a migraine virtually every day since I started taking these, so if the full dose makes it worse still, then I know for sure.
Today I'm just about hanging on without the help of Triptans.

Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #22 on: 23 August, 2017, 10:35:26 pm »
Eurgh. So yeah, full dose was not a good idea. Dizziness, nausea and dry throat. Slept 10 hours. Matches symptoms for allergic reaction to the drug.
Phone up my neurologist: On vacation to Sep 11. Phone up my GP: On vacation until Sep 1.
Gonna stop the BB's until I've spoken to either of them.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Beta-blockers?
« Reply #23 on: 23 August, 2017, 10:56:38 pm »
Urgh, good idea Jakob re stopping till you can talk to /someone/. Sorry to hear you're not having a good time.

I did the migraine clinic today, basically we agree I'm probably experiencing perma-migraine and constant light sensitivity. Topiramate for prophylaxis and tripans for spikes. Right now I only notice 'specific' migraines if I get an actual aura but specialist nurse thinks I'm getting bad baseline AND spikes that aren't treated cos it's all just a huge mess.

Week+ for letter, go to GP get script, hopefully get job interviews tomorrow and next week out of the way first.