Maritime registration

[pcolbeck]

P&O run two ferry routes from Hull. Hull - Zeebrugge and Hull - Rotterdam and each of these routes has two ferries.
The two ferries used on each route are identical ships but one is registered in the Bahamas and one in Europe. For example on the Zeebrugge route Pride of York is Nassau registered and Pride of Bruges it's sister ship is Rotterdam registered.
Any idea why ?

[PeteB99]

Possibly they are leased from different owning companies?

[pcolbeck]

Nope owner and operator for all four is listed as P&O ferries (at least by Wikipedia).

[Cudzoziemiec]

Presumably Bahamas registration is cheaper and there's probably a rule that for internal EU routes a certain % of fleet must be EU-registered. I have a vague idea there's something similar for aircraft.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

It's so-called 'flags of convenience'.

PoY was registered in the UK till 2011 when it switched to Nassau.

Swanning around various places the rich moor their yachts I notice that Nassau and the Cayman islands are favourite registration ports for British boats.

Coincidentally they are also tax havens.

https://www.offshore-protection.com/bahamas-tax-havens
https://www.offshore-protection.com/financial-centers-jurisdictions
http://www.caymanenterprisecity.com/

It probably all boils down to accountancy, like most things.

[pcolbeck]

I get the flag of convenience thing my puzzlement was why all four ferries weren't registered in Nassau but only one for each run. I am guessing its something like Cudzoziemiec suggests.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

I get the flag of convenience thing my puzzlement was why all four ferries weren't registered in Nassau but only one for each run. I am guessing its something like Cudzoziemiec suggests.

I'd be interested to know why the EU would have any influence over the matter given the global nature of shipping. 

The only thing I can find is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_State_Control#Paris_MOU_NIR

in 1982 the Paris Memorandum of Understanding (Paris MoU) was agreed upon, establishing Port State Control, nowadays 26 European countries and Canada. In practice, this was a reaction to the failure of the flag states - especially flags of convenience that have delegated their task to classification societies - to comply with their survey and certification duties.

Following on the foundation built by the Paris MOU, several other regional MOUs have been signed, including the Tokyo MOU (Pacific Ocean),[2] Acuerdo Latino or Acuerdo de Viña del Mar (South and Central America),[3] the Caribbean MOU,[4] the Mediterranean MOU,[5] the Indian Ocean MOU,[6] the Abuja MOU (West and Central Atlantic Africa),[7] the Black Sea MOU,[8] and the Riyadh MOU (Persian Gulf).[9]

The United States Coast Guard verifies that all foreign vessels operating in United States waters are in substantial compliance with international conventions, as well as all applicable U.S. laws, regulations and treaties. The U.S. is not a member of any Port State Control MOU.

It doesn't seek to control where a ship is registered.

[Legs]

See also: Panama, Liberia, Marshall Islands.

[rachel t]

I get the flag of convenience thing my puzzlement was why all four ferries weren't registered in Nassau but only one for each run. I am guessing its something like Cudzoziemiec suggests.

IIRC 2 boats used be owned by the dutch part of P&O & 2 by the british part,  Pride of York & Pride of Hull being the british & Bruges & Rotherdam by the dutch, which might have something to do with where they are registered

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

P&O run two ferry routes from Hull. Hull - Zeebrugge and Hull - Rotterdam and each of these routes has two ferries.
The two ferries used on each route are identical ships but one is registered in the Bahamas and one in Europe. For example on the Zeebrugge route Pride of York is Nassau registered and Pride of Bruges it's sister ship is Rotterdam registered.
Any idea why ?

Like I said, probably they are cost centres and it's down to accountancy and tax avoidance.  I suspect that the sun over Nassau will never shine on the deck of the Pride of York.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Presumably Bahamas registration is cheaper and there's probably a rule that for internal EU routes a certain % of fleet must be EU-registered. I have a vague idea there's something similar for aircraft.

And yet I have never seen a Ryanair plane not registered in Dublin. By now I must have seen every a/c O'Leary possesses..

[yoav]

One of the reasons for flags of convenience is that it allows the ship's owners to bypass rules on who they employ. EU registered ships need to employ a certain percentage of EU resident crew and presumably pay them more than non-EU crew. Certainly on DFDS ships the crew appear to be mostly from the Far East.

I imagine this business model doesn't really work for airlines such as Ryanair so there is no need to register abroad.

[Cudzoziemiec]

One of the reasons for flags of convenience is that it allows the ship's owners to bypass rules on who they employ. EU registered ships need to employ a certain percentage of EU resident crew and presumably pay them more than non-EU crew. Certainly on DFDS ships the crew appear to be mostly from the Far East.

I imagine this business model doesn't really work for airlines such as Ryanair so there is no need to register abroad.

That's some solid info, at last, so thank you. But it still doesn't answer the question as to why they aren't all registered under flags of convenience.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Presumably Bahamas registration is cheaper and there's probably a rule that for internal EU routes a certain % of fleet must be EU-registered. I have a vague idea there's something similar for aircraft.

And yet I have never seen a Ryanair plane not registered in Dublin. By now I must have seen every a/c O'Leary possesses..

Because they have to be registered within the EU in order to fly internal EU routes. At least, that's what I was thinking was the rule when I wrote that; it now seems I was confusing registration of aircraft with the registration of airlines under the EU 'open skies' agreement/rule.

[Zipperhead]

Presumably Bahamas registration is cheaper and there's probably a rule that for internal EU routes a certain % of fleet must be EU-registered. I have a vague idea there's something similar for aircraft.

And yet I have never seen a Ryanair plane not registered in Dublin. By now I must have seen every a/c O'Leary possesses..

Then you haven't seen all 408 of them - there are three Ryanair Learjet's registered in the Isle of Man. Out of curiosity I just searched on FR24.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Presumably Bahamas registration is cheaper and there's probably a rule that for internal EU routes a certain % of fleet must be EU-registered. I have a vague idea there's something similar for aircraft.

And yet I have never seen a Ryanair plane not registered in Dublin. By now I must have seen every a/c O'Leary possesses..

Then you haven't seen all 408 of them - there are three Ryanair Learjet's registered in the Isle of Man. Out of curiosity I just searched on FR24.

Then you will be surprised to learn that my claim was entirely hyperbolic   But I am grateful for the information.

[harvey]

One of the reasons for flags of convenience is that it allows the ship's owners to bypass rules on who they employ. EU registered ships need to employ a certain percentage of EU resident crew and presumably pay them more than non-EU crew. Certainly on DFDS ships the crew appear to be mostly from the Far East.

I imagine this business model doesn't really work for airlines such as Ryanair so there is no need to register abroad.

I was a us merchant seaman in a former life, and worked on a chemical tanker (600' floating mothball) that only serviced the us eastern coast and us gulf of mx. We would fill up with du pont & monsanto nastiness in ports around houston & louisiana and discharge in and around nyc - lovely spots like bayonne, nj & chester, pa. My job was crew messman in the stewards dept - got to serve food to non-officer crew and was chief bottle washer.

Sorry, my point is that since the vessel only worked us coastal/inland waterways it was required to be register in the us (philadelphia) and employ only us reg seaman.

I graduated from the stewards dept to ordinary seaman after that ship and got to work on deck; had enough seatime w/union to move to higher group level for better jobs. Next ship was another tanker but took subsidized shipments to impoverished areas - we took wheat to egypt on one trip. This was in the mid 1980s and shortly afterwards us shipping cratered moving to foreign ships & crews. Sadly, I couldn't find any shipping work and had to find a real job.