Author Topic: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor  (Read 93262 times)

Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« on: 24 April, 2013, 11:33:24 am »
This is a project that I have been working on for the last 2-years (on and off!) and something I felt quite passionate about as it was the first ever '600' in the UK.

To begin with, the event will only be a 'permanent' starting/finishing in Windsor with controls (provisionally) at Oxford, Bidford-on-Avon, Kinver, Eccleshall and Chester.

The return route takes in the 24-hour service area at Battlefield corner (N of Shrewsbury) which also has a Travelodge on the site and at around 370k might be an ideal point to grab some sleep at.

The new route avoids the vast majority of the main roads used by the original WCW and which eventually caused its demise about 10-years ago!

If there is sufficient interest (there are quite a few 600's now on the calendar each year) I may look at putting it on as a full calendar event in the next year or so if I can get enough volunteers to run controls.

I will also need to identify a suitable start/finish point in or near to Windsor that has ample car-parking space so does anyone know of somewhere?

I will update this thread again when the event goes live which should hopefully be in the next few weeks

U.N.Dulates

  • aka John Hamilton
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #1 on: 24 April, 2013, 12:59:59 pm »
Sounds good. If you do decide to go for a calendar event get in touch about controls in the Shrewsbury vicinity. I should be able to do an overnight control at Upton Magna.

The calendar is a bit short on 600s starting in the SE currently, (they're clustered in SW and round Manchester/W Yorks) so there's definitely room. And I'm sure there's folks on here who'd contribute to controls.

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #2 on: 24 April, 2013, 01:05:40 pm »
Sounds good. If you do decide to go for a calendar event get in touch about controls in the Shrewsbury vicinity. I should be able to do an overnight control at Upton Magna.

Ditto, if it passes through the Worcestershire area.
Organiser of Droitwich Cycling Club audaxes.  https://www.droitwichcyclingclub.co.uk/audax/

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #3 on: 24 April, 2013, 01:25:30 pm »
The calendar is a bit short on 600s starting in the SE currently, (they're clustered in SW and round Manchester/W Yorks) so there's definitely room.

I'd certainly agree with that. Despite a pretty active calendar in the region, there are not many 600s round this way.  This year, we do have 2 new X-rated events (The Buzzard and The Flatlands), but, as with any X-rated event, these are more likely to appeal to the more experienced rider rather than encourage someone to step up a distance.  This could also be worth talking to those who hold the purse strings at AUK - this is exactly where the strategy document seemed to suggest that help in the form of a subsidy/underwriting could be offered.

Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #4 on: 24 April, 2013, 01:43:24 pm »
I am encouraged by what I have read so far.

The route does actually go through Belbroughton and I was thinking of hiring the village hall there for a control.

Pete Mas

  • Don't Worry 'bout a thing...
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #5 on: 24 April, 2013, 01:46:16 pm »
I would definitely be keen to ride this event, if its on the calendar next year. :)
''It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

R.L.Stevenson

JayP

  • You must be joking
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #6 on: 24 April, 2013, 03:24:45 pm »

To begin with, the event will only be a 'permanent' starting/finishing in Windsor with controls (provisionally) at Oxford, Bidford-on-Avon, Kinver, Eccleshall and Chester.


Will the perm' be available anytime soon? ( ie before LEL ) Could  I do Chester, Windsor, Chester?

Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
    • Reading Cycling Club
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #7 on: 24 April, 2013, 07:24:35 pm »
I usually ride a 600 perm (not always validated) in late September or early October. I live in Reading and could make a start at Windsor or Oxford for a grand weekend out. I have ridden up the East quite a lot and did a run over to Llandovery the other year, so this is different and appealing.  8)

Anybody else fancy a late 600?

BB
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #8 on: 24 April, 2013, 07:49:20 pm »
Sounds great, especially if I could use Bidford as the start/finish control...
I dunno why anybody's doing this!

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #9 on: 24 April, 2013, 08:44:58 pm »
I am encouraged by what I have read so far.

The route does actually go through Belbroughton and I was thinking of hiring the village hall there for a control.

The Recreation Centre is good with an excellent kitchen and is a barn of a venue. For those seeking a kip, there is a separate meeting room albeit without curtains.   I use it as my HQ for the Kidderminster Killer.

It cost me £75 for a whole day.   Contact Andy Finnie on 01562 730125 for details. Incidentally, the Rec is only a mile away from where I live.   Alternatives in the locality include:

Belbroughton Church Hall. Booking Secretary - Mrs. Pauline Hadfield - 01562 730418
Clent Parish Hall - Ring James & Tricia Bradbury  for Bookings 01562 730 381 http://www.clent-worcs.co.uk/parish_hall.htm
Organiser of Droitwich Cycling Club audaxes.  https://www.droitwichcyclingclub.co.uk/audax/

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #10 on: 24 April, 2013, 08:45:44 pm »
I would volunteer at a control at Bellbroughton.  It's quite local to me.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #11 on: 24 April, 2013, 08:46:42 pm »
I rode the old "main road bash" version of the WCW in 1987 and 1995 and on both occasions I started at Kidderminster and went to Windsor (Beaconsfield) first. The route returned to Kidderminster before heading up to the top turn at Runcorn.

There weren't as many 600s in those days and as this one attracted a fairly big field, riders could start from either end or in the middle, so you often saw riders from other starts and possibly your own coming the other way.


hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #12 on: 24 April, 2013, 08:53:01 pm »
As Windsor (Marlow) starting Lanterne Rouge, it was a great morale boost to see Knutsford (Chester) starters coming the other way. I was alone for much of that ride, except at controls.

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #13 on: 29 April, 2013, 10:32:05 am »
As much as I would like to put this event back on as a full calendar event, sadly I dont think it is going to happen.

The main reason being that there are a lot of 'shoestring' 600's in the calendar that are getting around 20 entries at best and I would need considerably more than that just to cover costs of booking one village hall on the route.

I would have liked to have put this event back on again as a major event in the calendar - along the lines of the BCM which is the only 600 to get a good entry every year.  I would also like to think that I could do a deal with Travelodge by booking the whole of Battlefield Travelodge, Shrewsbury for sleeping (370k) and together with a village hall near Chester and another at Belbroughton (160k and 440k) I would need to guarantee at least 80 entries at £20 just to break even.

Perhaps I could try and 'sell it' to riders with a good article in Arrivee or am I just trying too hard with this project?

In the days of the previous Windsor-Chester-Windsor there were just a couple of other 600's (WCW and BCM) so do we have too many 600's now which might be preventing this event from ever getting off the ground?

It will hopefully be available as a 'perm' event by late May though.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #14 on: 29 April, 2013, 10:49:49 am »
This could also be worth talking to those who hold the purse strings at AUK - this is exactly where the strategy document seemed to suggest that help in the form of a subsidy/underwriting could be offered.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Hillbilly

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #15 on: 29 April, 2013, 11:21:43 am »
I have also grappled with the idea of how to make "fully provided" for 600s financially viable, particularly newer ones (ones like BCM have it sorted, due to reputation). 

My solution is likely to be (bear in mind I've not organised anything above 200 and my 600 will be in place 2015):

1) Run shorter events alongside.
2) Put on an event with two starts (will need co-operation of another organiser) at the turn around points.  But with variations in the two routes that mean a common sleep stop (for a straight out and back, that would have to be at the 300km point, which means jigging about with start times so riders get there in 2am-5am sweetspot).

Euan Uzami

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #16 on: 29 April, 2013, 11:35:28 am »
As much as I would like to put this event back on as a full calendar event, sadly I dont think it is going to happen.

The main reason being that there are a lot of 'shoestring' 600's in the calendar that are getting around 20 entries at best and I would need considerably more than that just to cover costs of booking one village hall on the route.

I would have liked to have put this event back on again as a major event in the calendar - along the lines of the BCM which is the only 600 to get a good entry every year.  I would also like to think that I could do a deal with Travelodge by booking the whole of Battlefield Travelodge, Shrewsbury for sleeping (370k) and together with a village hall near Chester and another at Belbroughton (160k and 440k) I would need to guarantee at least 80 entries at £20 just to break even.

Perhaps I could try and 'sell it' to riders with a good article in Arrivee or am I just trying too hard with this project?

In the days of the previous Windsor-Chester-Windsor there were just a couple of other 600's (WCW and BCM) so do we have too many 600's now which might be preventing this event from ever getting off the ground?

It will hopefully be available as a 'perm' event by late May though.

can you not just take 'expressions of interest' (with payment), and then if you get enough put it on, and if you don't, then those that paid get either a refund or a perm card. Or do the deadlines not allow that...?

Pete Mas

  • Don't Worry 'bout a thing...
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #17 on: 29 April, 2013, 12:30:44 pm »
As much as I would like to put this event back on as a full calendar event, sadly I dont think it is going to happen.

The main reason being that there are a lot of 'shoestring' 600's in the calendar that are getting around 20 entries at best and I would need considerably more than that just to cover costs of booking one village hall on the route.

I would have liked to have put this event back on again as a major event in the calendar - along the lines of the BCM which is the only 600 to get a good entry every year.  I would also like to think that I could do a deal with Travelodge by booking the whole of Battlefield Travelodge, Shrewsbury for sleeping (370k) and together with a village hall near Chester and another at Belbroughton (160k and 440k) I would need to guarantee at least 80 entries at £20 just to break even.

Perhaps I could try and 'sell it' to riders with a good article in Arrivee or am I just trying too hard with this project?

In the days of the previous Windsor-Chester-Windsor there were just a couple of other 600's (WCW and BCM) so do we have too many 600's now which might be preventing this event from ever getting off the ground?

It will hopefully be available as a 'perm' event by late May though.

can you not just take 'expressions of interest' (with payment), and then if you get enough put it on, and if you don't, then those that paid get either a refund or a perm card. Or do the deadlines not allow that...?

Perhaps set a date for 2014, and allow paypal entries. Rides have previously sold out on YACF alone....If enough entrants, then you can proceed with halls, Travelodge, etc. If not, then the entrants can do a (partially-supported) group perm?
''It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

R.L.Stevenson

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #18 on: 29 April, 2013, 01:00:36 pm »
To get the Travelodge at the right price, i would need to book it now for next August.

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #19 on: 29 April, 2013, 02:03:19 pm »
To get the Travelodge at the right price, i would need to book it now for next August


JUST DO IT NOW...  If numbers are low and do not cover costs next year do not worry.  In 2015 you will have the support in great numbers when group perms are not allowed for PBP.  If Travelodge not on money wise then book another hall for the purposes of sleeping. If you can organise 2 or 3 seperate starts (Marlow-Kidderminster-Northwich) then you will increase your rider numbers without a doubt.
Good luck

mikewigley

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #20 on: 29 April, 2013, 03:09:25 pm »
JUST DO IT NOW...  If numbers are low and do not cover costs next year do not worry

It's easy to spend other people's money. 

It's probably worth having a word with Mr Undulates to see how such a ride might fit in amongst the existing calendar of shoe-strings.  This is the crucial part of the strategy (as I see it), how to encourage fully supported events to replace the shoestrings.

One thing you need to give thought to before resurrecting an old event is why we lost it in the first place - but I think you have already mentioned that increasing traffic on the roads used was a key factor.

My own 600 (To Holl and Back) has been set up as a shoestring event but numbers have grown over the years and I'm anticipating perhaps 60 for this year (mainly as LEL preparation).  The controls are all cafes, so this isn't a tour of petrol station forecourts (unless that's your preference).  I've left riders to make their own accommodation arrangements but with Travelodges at the start, at 360km and the finish this could be quite a luxurious ride.


Hillbilly

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #21 on: 29 April, 2013, 03:23:45 pm »
One thing you need to give thought to before resurrecting an old event is why we lost it in the first place - but I think you have already mentioned that increasing traffic on the roads used was a key factor.

I had a thought along the same lines, but was hesitating given I don't want to discourage the thinking on this thread. The internet is also such an impersonal place and it's possible for words to be taken wrongly.  Anyway...

Before clamouring (ie putting on the peer pressure) for this to be slotted into the calendar and have the resources of AUK thrown behind it, let's get some perspective.  A proud parent never thinks their baby is a dawg.  I'm sure this is a bonny wee nipper sired from the loins of Jethro, but she's not even out the hospital ward yet.

I would have thought it more sensible for the first few ride reports to come through before seeking to have this slotted into the calendar.  The WCW had issues and (as I understand it) was taken outside and shot for a reason.

(PS: this is in no way criticising the vision and effort of you Jethro, it's more a comment on the mindset of the collective).

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #22 on: 29 April, 2013, 05:03:10 pm »
If you can organise 2 or 3 separate starts (Marlow-Kidderminster-Northwich) then you will increase your rider numbers without a doubt.
Good luck

Numerous starts require more controls to be open for longer hours which can increase costs (booking a hall for 24 hours or longer instead of just overnight from 9pm to 9am).

However, cunning selection of controls (for an out and back route) and start points can mean that a single control can easily be the sleep stop for 2 different start points. It can be the sleep stop for further starts if you accept that the sleep stop be further from the 370km mark and/or if you adjust the start times for alternative start points.

Generally though I can only imagine extra starts to just mean more work/headaches for organisers. It's pretty easy for perms but not so much for calendar rides.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Hillbilly

Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #23 on: 29 April, 2013, 05:27:49 pm »
If you can organise 2 or 3 separate starts (Marlow-Kidderminster-Northwich) then you will increase your rider numbers without a doubt.
Good luck

Numerous starts require more controls to be open for longer hours which can increase costs (booking a hall for 24 hours or longer instead of just overnight from 9pm to 9am).

However, cunning selection of controls (for an out and back route) and start points can mean that a single control can easily be the sleep stop for 2 different start points. It can be the sleep stop for further starts if you accept that the sleep stop be further from the 370km mark and/or if you adjust the start times for alternative start points.

Generally though I can only imagine extra starts to just mean more work/headaches for organisers. It's pretty easy for perms but not so much for calendar rides.

Perhaps not so much harder if you have a little team of organisers, as per the LEL model.  But that risks going down a whole different discussion cul de sac.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor
« Reply #24 on: 29 April, 2013, 06:13:15 pm »
However, cunning selection of controls (for an out and back route) and start points can mean that a single control can easily be the sleep stop for 2 different start points. It can be the sleep stop for further starts if you accept that the sleep stop be further from the 370km mark and/or if you adjust the start times for alternative start points.

What actually happened on WCW with 3 start points was that riders adopted a very diferent strategy depending on which start point they used, and in fact old hands tended to choose the start point which suited their style of riding best, rather than just going for the closest one.

So the excellent hall at Kidderminster (which probably isn't available any more) was almost everybody's chosen sleep stop.  For Kidderminster starters it broke the ride into 2 300s, for everyone else it was more of a long 400 plus a sprint.

WCW was essentially a main road bash of course - no-one ever even considered running it on lanes, and eventually the combination of Sunday lunchtime traffic and tired riders on trunk roads (A49 anyone?) became untenable.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll