Author Topic: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?  (Read 1599 times)

zigzag

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Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« on: 25 April, 2017, 10:13:12 am »
i want to build a front tt wheel and got this (used) campag hub; i'd be interested to know what wheelset it came from. 14 straight pull spokes and a usual cup&cone affair inside. google image search didn't give any useful results.

Salvatore

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #1 on: 25 April, 2017, 10:18:27 am »
Looks like Eurus (but different spoke count).


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Hard to find hub from the high end Campagnolo Eurus wheelset of the mid 2000's.
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et avec John, excellent lecteur de road-book, on s'en est sortis sans erreur

zigzag

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #2 on: 25 April, 2017, 10:33:04 am »
thank you, indeed it looks the same except for a different number of spoke slots

zigzag

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #3 on: 25 April, 2017, 12:11:42 pm »
the main reason i asked is to check if the standard (non-proprietary) straight pull spokes will fit. it looks like they will.

Torslanda

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #4 on: 25 April, 2017, 05:49:10 pm »
Some Campag hubs need a spoke which is T-shaped. When I have tried to use a generic straight pull it has resolutely refused to work. If a generic spoke fits then guffrit.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #5 on: 27 April, 2017, 11:16:19 pm »
Shamals of the same era as that Eurus had 14 spokes. Basically Record quality.

http://www.nycyclique.com/wheels/vintage-campagnolo-shamal-black-wheelset-91011-speed

zigzag

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #6 on: 28 April, 2017, 01:19:49 am »
Shamals of the same era as that Eurus had 14 spokes. Basically Record quality.

http://www.nycyclique.com/wheels/vintage-campagnolo-shamal-black-wheelset-91011-speed

those are the exact ones (surprised the rear wheel has only got 16 spokes)! i plan to upgrade the hub with ceramic bearings and use oil instead of grease as otherwise both bearings and seals are quite draggy, i.e. bearings spin in rubber/plastic crowns which cause friction, axle rotates inside the hub shell filled with grease via grease port - effectively a sleeve bearing. i've cleaned all the grease from the hub now and intend to use the grease port just for a few drops of oil.

now deciding on the rim, probably a tubeless custom drilled u-shaped with 50-60mm profile.

Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #7 on: 28 April, 2017, 09:26:48 am »
FWIW ceramic bearings are a waste of time and money. Modifying the hub to use a less viscous lubricant and with less seal drag etc will yield small gains for a small amount of effort. If there are contact seals you can remove them if you intend to ride in dry weather only.

 Note that the apparent gains from changing lubricant are always less than you might think; the losses are pretty much invariant with load and most greases have a shear thinning characteristic, i.e. the additional losses (from the lubricant viscosity) don't go pro-rata with speed as you might expect.  By all means try this stuff for yourself, but with a built wheel (in a stand) you may see no difference in run-down times between oil and using a small amount of a decent grease.

FWIW the biggest difference you can make with cup and cone hubs is to pay careful attention to the adjustment; the correct adjustment is to have a little free play in the bearings that just disappears as the QR is tightened.

 If you have no such free play, once the QR is tight, you will increase the preload on the bearings enormously (up to five or ten times the service load is possible on a front hub) which will increase the bearing drag by a far greater amount than any amount of messing about with bearings and lube would ever save you.

You should ideally set the hub bearings using a proper hub vice, but you can at least  test the bearing adjustment is correct by installing a thick washer each side of the hub (as dummy dropouts) and tightening the QR. With a correctly adjusted  front wheel (or a rear in VDOs) you can vary the QR pressure so the hub bearings just transition from 'a little free play' to 'no free play' and are therefore operating with minimal preload.

 The cone adjustment ideally needs to be accurate to just one or two degrees; if you can manage this you can set the bearings to single-digits of microns, i.e. a better tolerance than that which is likely to be achieved by a cartridge bearing once it is installed.

 [NB Because the ball bearings are larger than in a typical cartridge bearing, the coefficient of rolling resistance in service (i.e. under load) is less with a cup and cone hub, which is why both campagnolo and shimano persevere with them in their professional quality equipment.]

cheers

zigzag

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #8 on: 28 April, 2017, 09:56:35 am »
thank you, the adjustment is quite easy on mavic and campag/fulcrum (not all the models though) hubs as you can do that with the wheel installed. i like to leave it with the tiniest bit of play when moving the rim side to side.

Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #9 on: 28 April, 2017, 11:34:03 am »
yes, of course.  How does the adjustment work on the hub in question, is it the 'easy' sort?

BTW by contrast some of shimano's recent hubs have the most stupid stupid stupid arrangement I have ever seen; you can't adjust the bearings in situ and you can't adjust them in a hub vice either... duh!

People are moaning about the bearings wearing out prematurely in those hubs; I'm not surprised... I am pretty sure that most of them are not adjusted correctly. IIRC the service instructions encourage you to leave no play with the QR slack, which is usually fatal....

cheers

zigzag

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #10 on: 28 April, 2017, 11:58:25 am »


yes, of course.  How does the adjustment work on the hub in question, is it the 'easy' sort?
yes, it can be done in situ, only a wheel needs to be removed to pop the plastic cover back on


Biggsy

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #11 on: 28 April, 2017, 01:00:00 pm »
It's like the modern Record, Brucey, with threadless cones.

(By modern I mean 21st century).
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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #12 on: 28 April, 2017, 07:18:56 pm »
It's like the modern Record, Brucey, with threadless cones.

(By modern I mean 21st century).

you must mean that '21st century design' that was introduced in the twentieth century, then...? ;D

BTW on a serious note, unlike front hubs, I do not advocate leaving campag cassette hubs (with cup and cone bearings) with any free play in the bearings (with the QR tight); the reason is that the bearing loading is highly asymmetric and the balls will tend to scuff in the races. The RH hub bearing very commonly claps out in these hubs because of this effect.

cheers


Biggsy

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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #13 on: 28 April, 2017, 08:44:24 pm »
With a new one of these kind of hubs or after a rebuild, I'd say it's even reasonable to start with it slightly on the tight side to allow for initial settling (and maybe even some wearing in)  A sharp tap helps unstick it, but I've still found some tweaking is very soon required if it was seemingly-perfectly adjusted to begin with.

Yes, the "modern" Record hub was introduced in 1999, IIRC.  I don't know where and when the actual basic idea originated  from.  They say all cycling inventions were really made in the nineteenth century.
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Re: Anyone know what Campag hub this is?
« Reply #14 on: 28 April, 2017, 09:04:12 pm »
....  They say all cycling inventions were really made in the nineteenth century.

Or before that....have you ever seen (leave alone understood) the workings in the Antikythera mechanism?   It seems to me that it is only a matter of time before they dig up an ancient Greek bicycle complete with a Rohloff-esque hub gear.... :o

cheers