Author Topic: [HAMR] UMCA Spread Sheet  (Read 8706 times)

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
[HAMR] UMCA Spread Sheet
« on: 02 March, 2015, 08:00:30 pm »
The current official spread sheet is here

http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/details.php

and at the moment the 28th Feb ride is showing as 178.2.

The ball must be in Kurts court to prove 216  if he thinks that is the actual distance that he rode.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #1 on: 02 March, 2015, 08:16:58 pm »
I know I'm repeating myself from other posts I've made but,

Kurt is still claiming the incorrect mileage on the 26th Jan and now it seems to be an official part of the UMCA HAM'R record.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #2 on: 02 March, 2015, 08:41:31 pm »
I agree that Kurt's vehicle transfer is still included. Strictly speaking, that means an additional penalty of up to 10 miles, beyond removal of the vehicle mileage. Is it going to take an official protest to get Kurt to properly tidy up his records?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #3 on: 02 March, 2015, 09:32:53 pm »
I agree that Kurt's vehicle transfer is still included. Strictly speaking, that means an additional penalty of up to 10 miles, beyond removal of the vehicle mileage. Is it going to take an official protest to get Kurt to properly tidy up his records?

Don't let him go too far. Bang a protest on everything NOW. He's playing with the rules far too much! (And make sure he knows he can't have time out for dodgy kit; that's his problem)

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #4 on: 02 March, 2015, 11:03:21 pm »
Cor the climbing is starkly different. Steve plus 200,000 feet or so.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #5 on: 02 March, 2015, 11:07:23 pm »
I agree that Kurt's vehicle transfer is still included. Strictly speaking, that means an additional penalty of up to 10 miles, beyond removal of the vehicle mileage. Is it going to take an official protest to get Kurt to properly tidy up his records?

Don't let him go too far. Bang a protest on everything NOW. He's playing with the rules far too much! (And make sure he knows he can't have time out for dodgy kit; that's his problem)

I think that's a good point. Great cyclist Tarzan may be, but, as I have said before, he gives the impression of being the UMCA's "golden boy" and I suspect that they are likely to be a lot more tolerant with him than they should be. It's a silly attitude by him, to be honest, because the last thing he wants is for him to break the record - whether or not Steve breaks it first - for doubt to be cast over the authenticity of some of his miles.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

LMT

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #6 on: 02 March, 2015, 11:08:17 pm »
A technical hitch, not that matters of course. Looks to be another 200 miles plus from Tarzan so what's forty miles between friends? Anyone notice how he's stronger on the bent? On another note John S done over 500 miles on a recumbent at Sebring a few years ago, I can see Kurt doing over the equivalent.

GO TARZAN

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #7 on: 02 March, 2015, 11:10:18 pm »
A technical hitch, not that matters of course. Looks to be another 200 miles plus from Tarzan so what's forty miles between friends? Anyone notice how he's stronger on the bent? On another note John S done over 500 miles on a recumbent at Sebring a few years ago, I can see Kurt doing over the equivalent.

GO TARZAN

Rather important, actually. You wouldn't want your man to get a reputation for sharp practice, now, would you?
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #8 on: 02 March, 2015, 11:12:27 pm »
40*365=14,600
It is simpler than it looks.

LMT

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #9 on: 03 March, 2015, 12:13:40 am »
A technical hitch, not that matters of course. Looks to be another 200 miles plus from Tarzan so what's forty miles between friends? Anyone notice how he's stronger on the bent? On another note John S done over 500 miles on a recumbent at Sebring a few years ago, I can see Kurt doing over the equivalent.

GO TARZAN

Rather important, actually. You wouldn't want your man to get a reputation for sharp practice, now, would you?

You got a point, the conduct of some members of Steve's team regarding having a sly dig about the way that Tarzan goes about this business got me a bit irked - I know I'm way better than this. :)

hillbilly

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #10 on: 03 March, 2015, 05:33:30 am »
I have it in my head that the UMCA are aware of the vehicle transfer and that Kurt submitted a revised gpx track.  I might be misremembering though.  It wouldn't be the first time.

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #11 on: 03 March, 2015, 07:47:13 pm »
jo explained the difference here between a gpx and a crs file:

I haven't read that another file has been submitted. (but not following every turn of the pedal)
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #12 on: 03 March, 2015, 11:04:01 pm »
I have been in contact with the UMCA and they are now investigating. They did not seem aware of the issue with Kurts ride on the 26th Jan prior to this.

They are also looking at concerns raised about the accuracy of Strava and I'm guessing that the issue of the 'missing miles on Strava' from Kurts 28th Feb ride is the cause of this.

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #13 on: 04 March, 2015, 06:26:47 am »
After the initial reply I received from the Paul Carpenter, the new UMCA President, I received a further email with the following statement

Quote
I have conferred with Drew Clark regarding your question.  He has informed me that Kurt did self-report the discrepancy the day it arose.  He was never credited with those miles.  He was credited for 175.9 miles on 1/26/2015.

What is creating some confusion here is that the spreadsheet reported on the UMCA web site (only went live yesterday) and the spreadsheet that Dex Tooke has been updating and sharing since the record attempts got underway are NOT THE OFFICIAL SPREADSHEET.  Currently that spreadsheet is not linked on any web site.  It is housed with Drew Clark the Records Chair along with all the daily logs riders submit.

We are working to make that log available to all so there is greater transparency.  We are also going to post and also put on the web site the exact process involved in verifying daily mileage.


Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #14 on: 04 March, 2015, 08:49:37 am »
Thanks for following this up. I await the link to the 'official' spreadsheet with interest.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #15 on: 04 March, 2015, 11:37:24 am »
I thought that this was the official website  http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/details.php
and he has been credited with 181.9 on there - not the figure of 175.9 referred to.

As a member of Steve's team it is inappropriate for me to complain about this -- but perhaps someone else on here might like to follow it up.

Roger
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #16 on: 04 March, 2015, 11:40:12 am »
As a member of Steve's team I'm sure you will be really anxious to see the official spreadsheet. How the heck are you supposed to ensure the figures are correct?

I'm surprised it hasn't been made available to the contestants already.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #17 on: 04 March, 2015, 12:59:01 pm »
I thought that this was the official website  http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/details.php

What's the point of publishing this, if it's not the "Official" version? Nonsense.

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #18 on: 04 March, 2015, 01:24:36 pm »
I thought that this was the official website  http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/details.php

What's the point of publishing this, if it's not the "Official" version? Nonsense.

Aggressive response to ""I thought.. " and ....""Copyright © 2015 UltraMarathon Cycling Association"" .. this is the footnote to the spreadsheet -- looks pretty official to me   -- but seems as if you know better .......please share the secret.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #19 on: 04 March, 2015, 01:26:45 pm »
Is it inappropriate for a memberof Steve's team to complain? In a competitive cycling event it would be expected that a member of the helping team lodged a complaint/appeal if there was a breach of rules (eg. sprinter's line transgression)  - you wouldn't wait for it to come from a spectator.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #20 on: 04 March, 2015, 01:42:24 pm »
Absolutely.  No reason at all why a member of one of the teams could or should not raise a concern.
Getting there...

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #21 on: 04 March, 2015, 01:50:22 pm »
Hoppo and Dave are in regular contact with the UMCA. No need to worry.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #22 on: 04 March, 2015, 02:12:16 pm »
Hoppo and Dave are in regular contact with the UMCA. No need to worry.

 :thumbsup:

Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #23 on: 04 March, 2015, 02:17:10 pm »
IME of GPS logging devices, they can be inaccurate to up to 5%.

The straighter the route, the more accurate the device records the distance. If the course is dead straight, the recorded distance might be in error positive by the location accuracy of the device.

They are usually negative, as the distance measurement technique is to draw straight lines between datapoints. The more bendy the route, the more inaccurate the distance measurement.

If a distance error of 1% is experienced ( not easy to prove ), a 2 mile error will be suffered each day.
Riding a particularly bendy route, the inaccuracy may be 5%, which is 10 miles in the day.

Kurt riding straight roads and Steve riding bendy roads could result in a 2 – 8 mile deficit each day for Steve. At 5 miles difference in 365 days, Steve’s ‘official’ distance will be 1825 miles LESS than Kurt.

Tommy Godwin used a wheel driven odometer. Maybe calibrated to the circumference of the tyre.
A mechanical wheel drive odometer ( 1970s Huret ) is still in my shed. It was for a 26” tyre, but the tyre was actually 25.75”, so the odometer recorded distances in the positive. Greater than reality by 1%. A known discrepancy that can be taken into account.

The most accurate distance measurement I have owned on a bicycle was a Cateye Mity 2, adjusted to an empirically measured tyre circumference.

If, and it’s a big if, Kurt rides further than Steve by a distance that could be accommodated by instrumentation inaccuracy, ( 1825 miles ) will Steve’s team dispute the claim?

I don’t think they will because UMCA are the judges and the judges’ word is final and all three teams agreed to the rules before committing to the record attempt.

Personally, a difference of less than 1500 miles will be a draw. This is within the measurement accuracy of the instrumentation.

Using the equipment they have, a distance total over 2000 miles more than the other guys will confirm ( in my mind ) the new record holder.


Re: UCMA Spread Sheet
« Reply #24 on: 04 March, 2015, 02:32:04 pm »
I thought that this was the official website  http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/details.php

What's the point of publishing this, if it's not the "Official" version? Nonsense.

Aggressive response to ""I thought.. " and ....""Copyright © 2015 UltraMarathon Cycling Association"" .. this is the footnote to the spreadsheet -- looks pretty official to me   -- but seems as if you know better .......please share the secret.

wajcgac has had a response from UMCA saying that it isn't the official record.
I think Climberbuss was irritated with the UMCA, not you.
<i>Marmite slave</i>