Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: aidan.f on 09 January, 2012, 09:42:15 pm

Title: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 09 January, 2012, 09:42:15 pm
I have  just  picked  up a  (working for  now) #2 Pedal Power+ USB charger  that  needs  testing - Friends used  #1  on PBP and  have  now lost  confidence in it's  reliablity as it  failed  unaccountably.  Replaced  by  shop no Q's  asked, we  both  wonder  why. Was it  overvoltaged  by  their SON Dynamo. It  was used  on a tandem, so speeds  will have  been high. Deanos Dahon Recharge failed on him (see  leaving  of  Darlo page  15) http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=51443.210 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=51443.210). So  although two different  models, at  least  one  designer  does  not  know how  to make something reliable.
I do know  SON hubs  have  a  very  high open cct voltage and  if  the AC current  drawn as the  battery charges  to  full voltage  drops too low  it could  blow rectifier diodes and  regulators.  A  good  design would have  a shunt  Voltage  limiter. I would  contact  Pedal Power  but the  appear  unhelpful, dealer  only  contact  on their  web-site. I could  construct  an add-on limiter, hi Kim! but don't  wish to add something  un-neccessary.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 09 January, 2012, 11:03:16 pm
Deano's failed due to user error (and poor design). Not actually a fault in the unit.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 09 January, 2012, 11:19:40 pm
My Dahon Reecharge has worked flawlessly for over 5000 miles, but then again realising that i don't always want to be sending current to it's battery I molished my own switch so I can turn the power to it off and on from the bars. I sometimes turn it on during descents and off when climbing to limit any drag making me (even) slower  :-X
I turn it off at night when I want my dyno light to get all the current (unless the Garmin runs low on batteries and then I can run both but with a slightly less bright light, forward planning by fully charging the Reecharge battery pack and the Garmin during daylight hours prevents me having to do this usually). I'm talking about rides where I am riding through consecutive days and nights here, anything 200k or less the Reecharge starting off fully charged from the mains in the morning is more than enough without doing any dyno charging. It's always nice to know you can charge things if you need to though.
Title: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 10 January, 2012, 09:16:27 am
It's interesting that you've had no problems with your reecharge Feline.  I was on the verge of buying one of these a couple of months ago, but I read so many negative comments on here that I decided to wait until the technology had improved a bit. (Sounds like all I need to do is wire in a switch and be intelligent about when to charge it).   The B+M ewerk seems like a reliable solution but way too spendy for me to justify, especially once the buffer battery is included to the price.

I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.   I have been wondering if a ewerk could be wired directly into the battery compartment of the Dakota (with the voltage adjusted accordingly) and some NiMH recargables in the battery compartment used as the buffer.  Does anyone with more elecronics nous than me know if this would work??
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 10 January, 2012, 09:57:11 am
I have a reecharge, which I blew out by descending like a loon without taking the current into the battery. Kim repaired it for me and it is now working again. Unlike feline, I have not the skillz to molish myself a switch.
It seems to me that everyone who has one, also has dyno lights and it is a major failing in the design not to have an in-line switch. It makes absolute sense to have a 4 way switch: lights/ battery/ both/ neither.

I don't think there's a problem with the device, if you use it as instructed. User error, here, too. It's always going to be difficult to make something that copes with the massively variably output, and I'm not sure that the method they've designed is ideal. Kim has a more technical opinion on this, though.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 10 January, 2012, 11:24:55 am
It's interesting that you've had no problems with your reecharge Feline.  I was on the verge of buying one of these a couple of months ago, but I read so many negative comments on here that I decided to wait until the technology had improved a bit. (Sounds like all I need to do is wire in a switch and be intelligent about when to charge it).   The B+M ewerk seems like a reliable solution but way too spendy for me to justify, especially once the buffer battery is included to the price.

I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.   I have been wondering if a ewerk could be wired directly into the battery compartment of the Dakota (with the voltage adjusted accordingly) and some NiMH recargables in the battery compartment used as the buffer.  Does anyone with more elecronics nous than me know if this would work??

My current (groan) thinking is to get an ewerk from one of the German online vendors (quite a bit cheaper than UK) and a separate Li-Poly battery (the B&M ones look overpriced).   Would have to be one that will both take charge from the ewerk and give it to the Garmin simultaneously.   If I'm right this "should" give me minimum faffage and maximum reliability.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 10 January, 2012, 12:00:59 pm
It's interesting that you've had no problems with your reecharge Feline.  I was on the verge of buying one of these a couple of months ago, but I read so many negative comments on here that I decided to wait until the technology had improved a bit. (Sounds like all I need to do is wire in a switch and be intelligent about when to charge it).   The B+M ewerk seems like a reliable solution but way too spendy for me to justify, especially once the buffer battery is included to the price.

I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.   I have been wondering if a ewerk could be wired directly into the battery compartment of the Dakota (with the voltage adjusted accordingly) and some NiMH recargables in the battery compartment used as the buffer.  Does anyone with more elecronics nous than me know if this would work??

My current (groan) thinking is to get an ewerk from one of the German online vendors (quite a bit cheaper than UK) and a separate Li-Poly battery (the B&M ones look overpriced).   Would have to be one that will both take charge from the ewerk and give it to the Garmin simultaneously.   If I'm right this "should" give me minimum faffage and maximum reliability.

That was my approach. E-werk and a generic USB Cache battery. Good for 2x charges of my HTC Desire, and fully recharges off a (summer - no lights) 200k audax.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: tiermat on 10 January, 2012, 12:12:40 pm
Maybe this will help?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/mophies-ruggedized-6000-mah-juice-pack-powerstation-pro-its-f/

No price or availability yet
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 10 January, 2012, 01:36:18 pm
I don't think there's a problem with the device, if you use it as instructed. User error, here, too. It's always going to be difficult to make something that copes with the massively variably output, and I'm not sure that the method they've designed is ideal. Kim has a more technical opinion on this, though.

Yes: Technically, it was designed by a numpty.   ;D
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Butterfly on 10 January, 2012, 01:42:22 pm
I don't think there's a problem with the device, if you use it as instructed. User error, here, too. It's always going to be difficult to make something that copes with the massively variably output, and I'm not sure that the method they've designed is ideal. Kim has a more technical opinion on this, though.

Yes: Technically, it was designed by a numpty.   ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 10 January, 2012, 08:16:02 pm
Agree with Kim: here is  the  email I sent  to PPower unsuprisingly no reply. (yet)
Quote
A friend  of  mine  had  his new  pedal power Super-i-Cable model SIC100 fail when using  it  on Paris  Brest Paris this  year. He  has  a  replacement but is now  worried  about  its  reliability.
In this  instance the  unit  was  used  on a  tandem and connected  to   a SON hub in a  700C wheel. It  would  have  been subjected  to  the  output  generated  for  long periods at speeds of  30-40Kmh and   speeds  of  60+ Kmh  for periods  of about  10-15 minutes
As I am a principal engineer  employed  by a  major TV transmission  company I understand electronic  design. I have  measured  a  SON  hub on a  rolling  road prior  to  designing  my  own LED  lights.  Can you  please  confirm that  your  devices  are  built  with  shunt  AC voltage limiters, or  designed  in such  a  manner as   to clamp the  AC input Voltage to a  level  which will not  cause  damage  to the  rectifiers  or switching regulator when the  internal battery  is  fully  charged under  the above conditions. For  your information any  shunt  limiter  must  be  able  to  dissipate approximately 7 Watts at  20 Volts to avoid  damage. I cannot  see  how  your design could  physically  be  capable  of  this.
I hope  you find  this  information useful.
It  looks  as  if most  of the products  mentioned  in this  thread are not  properly  designed and only  some  may-be. Automatic relay disconnect  on full charge or  some  sort  of  shunt  limiter (which would mean a big  heatsink) is  the only  sure way  - a  SON hub outputs about  70-80 Volts when lightly  loaded at  high speed. Kim could  you  PM me I have  some  ideas.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 11 January, 2012, 06:59:07 am
I have  just  picked  up a  (working for  now) #2 Pedal Power+ USB charger  that  needs  testing - Friends used  #1  on PBP and  have  now lost  confidence in it's  reliablity as it  failed  unaccountably.  .... I would  contact  Pedal Power  but the  appear  unhelpful, dealer  only  contact  on their  web-site. I could  construct  an add-on limiter, hi Kim! but don't  wish to add something  un-neccessary.

Bit worrying hearing this as I have recently purchased a PedalPower Super-i-Cable.  Only used it on a four day ride so far and that as fine.

With respect to contacting PedalPower I have emailed them in the recent past and got a response okay.  Maybe worth just contacting them anyway? They give their email address as sales@pedalpower.com.au.  The form on the contact page is for new dealer enquiries only, but they provide the email address for other contact.

Regards
Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Deano on 11 January, 2012, 07:23:41 am
Deano's failed due to user error (and poor design). Not actually a fault in the unit.

And to be fair to Dahon, they have replaced the regulator (it was waiting for me when I arrived in Dubai). They didn't respond to my comments about the design, however.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 11 January, 2012, 08:56:38 am
Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy
Title: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 11 January, 2012, 10:36:31 am
is it fair to say that the B+M ewerk is the only reliable unit out there? (Based on the fact that I've never heard of anyone with a broken ewerk)

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 11 January, 2012, 11:13:33 am
That  is  speculation - not  statistics. I was  told  by  Neil of  PedalPower that  they  have  only  had  two failures  and  both were manufacturing  defects
ICBA to contact  B+M. They  may  not  be  so forth-coming
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 11 January, 2012, 11:30:01 am
Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy

Good to hear :)

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 11 January, 2012, 11:07:22 pm
Send me  your pedal powers eWerks and Dahon recharge for  testing to... 100 KP hour ( I have  to  put the top cover  on for that) :)
or  1001 thing to do with a food processor
http://youtu.be/ypPDhNUsGUc (http://youtu.be/ypPDhNUsGUc)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 11 January, 2012, 11:21:03 pm
Send me  your pedal powers eWerks and Dahon recharge for  testing to... 100 KP hour ( I have  to  put the top cover  on for that) :)
or  1001 thing to do with a food processor
http://youtu.be/ypPDhNUsGUc (http://youtu.be/ypPDhNUsGUc)

That is a great jury rig you have there.

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 11 January, 2012, 11:32:25 pm
Dan, on the Thorn forum has installed Tout Terrain's Plug 2 but doesn't appear to have used it on an extended tour yet. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 12 January, 2012, 08:14:08 am
Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy

Good to hear :)

Andrew

They would say that tho,  wouldn't they?

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 12 January, 2012, 08:17:28 am
Quote
"Through our P.A.T. (Power Amplification Technology) system, that is optionally used, the power output of the Plug II can be optimized. This is particularly useful for users of smart phones or rechargeable batteries that want to maximize their power output on the road. Concealed, the extra power module is attached in the fork tube, so there are no other cables necessary outside."

From Tout  Terrain. I  am not  impressed - Technobabble.  just  means it's  got  an efficent converter Watts  is  Watts -  How  much power you have  to  play with  depends  on  on your  dynamo and  how  fast  you  are  riding  ;)

The  Pedal Power+ post  mortem is  going  well, To  cut  a long  story  short  the unit  has  got  a faulty lead, Nothing gone  wrong  with  the  electrickery. I  am impressed  with  the suport - they  were  also very  keen to establish what/why there is a problem.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 12 January, 2012, 08:17:58 am
That  is  speculation - not  statistics.

Yes, I know.

I was asking (in a round about way admittedly) if anyone had had any bad experiences with the ewerk.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 12 January, 2012, 08:32:37 am
Quote
Quote from: Sleepy on Yesterday at 11:13:33 AM

    That  is  speculation - not  statistics.


Yes, I know.

I was asking (in a round about way admittedly) if anyone had had any bad experiences with the ewerk.

I think we  need  a  survey.  Problem is  it's  complicated, For example Dahon may  sell re-charges by  the  10,000's, Pedal power  by the 1000's and others  100's We  know the Dahon re-charge is poorly designed, and fails when used with  high power generators  at  high  speed. The  others apart  from pedal power, don't  know for  sure  - I guess most quality kit will have a similar  protection circuit  to the one PP use.  We  need  to factor  for  type  of  use and  generator as well and  number of units

How  many different  flavours  are  out  there? can we  start with  a  list...

Dahon ReCharge, Pedal Power, eWerk, Tout  Terrain......
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 12 January, 2012, 08:39:59 am
Quote
    Quote from: Sleepy on Yesterday at 08:56:38 AM

        Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy


    Good to hear :)

    Andrew


They would say that tho,  wouldn't they?

Yes  but  would  you  know  what  they  were talking  about?

Admittedly, no I wouldn't.

So the PP+ has over voltage protection then? Is that what they're saying? 

I'm just looking for a recharger solution and not sure where to splash my cash. I was on the verge of clicking buy on a Dahon unit just before Christmas, but read too many bad experiences and decided not to.   As for the other units, I've heard about bad experiences for all of them except the ewerk.  I realise any piece of electronics kit can suffer one off failures and internet forums are a good (bad?) way of publicising that.  But it seems the Dahon unit has an inherent design fault (no over voltage protection for when the charge is going nowhere) and that makes me more suspicious of the others.

It will be interesting to see how you get on with your food processor rig sleepy.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: MattH on 12 January, 2012, 12:11:49 pm

I was asking (in a round about way admittedly) if anyone had had any bad experiences with the ewerk.

Not directly, but there was mention of this on the randon mailing list this morning (in the "Garmin Edge Questions" thread)

Quote
After completely killing my Garmin the first night of PBP I have avoided all use of hub powered USB chargers.  I think it was the fault of my homemade model, but I know of at least two cases of different eWerk units permanently disabling the USB communications function on Garmins.  Riding with the headlight on to stabilize the power spikes on high speed descents appears to provide some protection.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: frankly frankie on 12 January, 2012, 12:36:58 pm
I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.

Since it's an AA model, I really don't see how anything could be less faff than carrying spares and replacing them at intervals.
NB 'at intervals' not 'when necessary'.  I wouldn't wait for the battery to run right down and the unit switch off - I'd have a conservative estimate of runtime (say 12 hours or whatever) and replace when convenient at around that time.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 12 January, 2012, 12:39:16 pm
Quote
After completely killing my Garmin the first night of PBP I have avoided all use of hub powered USB chargers.  I think it was the fault of my homemade model, but I know of at least two cases of different eWerk units permanently disabling the USB communications function on Garmins.  Riding with the headlight on to stabilize the power spikes on high speed descents appears to provide some protection.

Interesting. My PedalPower Super-I-Cable ceases supplying power to my Garmin Edge 800 when my Busch & Muller Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus (http://www.aushiker.com/gear-note-lumotec-iq-cyo-senso-plus-light-first-impressions/) comes on. Don't know if this is a function of having a battery in the Super-i-Cable or my pedalling speed.  I wonder to if the battery assists in providing a buffer or protection for the Edge 800.

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 12 January, 2012, 01:12:09 pm
I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.

Since it's an AA model, I really don't see how anything could be less faff than carrying spares and replacing them at intervals.
NB 'at intervals' not 'when necessary'.  I wouldn't wait for the battery to run right down and the unit switch off - I'd have a conservative estimate of runtime (say 12 hours or whatever) and replace when convenient at around that time.
FYI, I've had 18hours out of 2AAs in my Garmin Hcx legend.  the unit doesn't suddenly switch off either, it gives a warning and you have quite a while before you have to switch batteries.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 12 January, 2012, 02:10:31 pm
So the PP+ has over voltage protection then? Is that what they're saying? 

Yes.  They actually gave details of how the protection circuit works, and by all accounts it's both clever and extremely energy-efficient.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrew_s on 12 January, 2012, 02:22:52 pm
B+M quote a miniscule figure for the no load drag on the hub when using an e-Werk - far lower than it would be it the hub were simply shorted. Presumably the no load impedance is such that the 50V or whatever that the hub gives only puts a few mA through it.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 12 January, 2012, 02:40:33 pm
Well if Kim says it's clever that will do for me.
PP+ SuperI cable ordered
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 12 January, 2012, 03:28:51 pm
I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.

Since it's an AA model, I really don't see how anything could be less faff than carrying spares and replacing them at intervals.
NB 'at intervals' not 'when necessary'.  I wouldn't wait for the battery to run right down and the unit switch off - I'd have a conservative estimate of runtime (say 12 hours or whatever) and replace when convenient at around that time.

Agreed, the faffage of changing batteries is minimal, especially if coincided with controls. But it is still something to remember to do.
Also if I could use the generator to keep the Garmin running, I could use the backlight more or even have it permanently on during the night.
Besides, I like the idea of the technology :) and I'm carrying a hub dynamo around so I might as well use it! 





Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 12 January, 2012, 03:34:06 pm
Very interested in the PP+ SIC now.

However.....


Interesting. My PedalPower Super-I-Cable ceases supplying power to my Garmin Edge 800 when my Busch & Muller Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus (http://www.aushiker.com/gear-note-lumotec-iq-cyo-senso-plus-light-first-impressions/) comes on. Don't know if this is a function of having a battery in the Super-i-Cable or my pedalling speed.  I wonder to if the battery assists in providing a buffer or protection for the Edge 800.

Andrew

Does the cable not power the Garmin at all with the light on, not even from the cable's internal battery?

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: tom_e on 12 January, 2012, 03:41:01 pm
Also if I could use the generator to keep the Garmin running, I could use the backlight more or even have it permanently on during the night.

You might find you can leave it on anyway at night.  I did some testing (http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Backlight+vs+Battery+Life) on the Oregon (very similar to the Dakota, I suspect), and on a low level it doesn't have too great an impact on the battery life.  You don't usually need or want a high level at night.

I discovered later that leaving it on in the dark seems to make me travel sick, mind...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 12 January, 2012, 04:17:25 pm
Which system - ewerk - dahon- PP+ or the Tout terrain has the tentative consensus for being a robust, solid, well designed, faffree system?

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 12 January, 2012, 04:21:53 pm
Also if I could use the generator to keep the Garmin running, I could use the backlight more or even have it permanently on during the night.

You might find you can leave it on anyway at night.

I've done numerous FNRttCs with the backlight of my Vista HCx permanently on at low brightness, and still had change from a single set of NiMHs.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 13 January, 2012, 07:12:45 am
Update  from food  processor man

I have  a design for a simple  limiter circuit that should be compatible with Dahon + Other models (ie home brew) as an after market fit.
will be deveoping  and  testing soon....

As previously posted if anyone would like to send me some hardware I will food process it  test  it to see if  it  has a similar limiter to the Pedal Power and return in working condition. I can do this by external meausurment using the processor :)

I have  been told that the PP limiter has  less drag than running with the   hub switched off. The eWerk appears to be  the same.
Quote
B+M quote a miniscule figure for the no load drag on the hub when using an e-Werk - far lower than it would be it the hub were simply shorted. Presumably the no load impedance is such that the 50V or whatever that the hub gives only puts a few mA through it.
Counter intuitively shorting the hub reduces the  drag

Interesting that we  now  have  reports of Faulty  eWerks.....

Colin's PP had a simple assembly fault - the  input  lead  was trapped under a brass pillar and  shorting the Hub
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Deano on 13 January, 2012, 07:19:00 am
Sleepy, do you want the (broken) governor thingy off my Reecharge? I'm sure you could fix it and work out how to get it to charge something other than the proprietary USB battery.

If not, it's going in the bin.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 13 January, 2012, 08:29:59 am
Probably not. Repairing is  hard have  you seen modern circuit  boards? For components  read size of grains  of  sea salt.
Might  be  worth an autopsy when you get  back
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 13 January, 2012, 08:40:36 am
Quote
Which system - ewerk - dahon- PP+ or the Tout terrain has the tentative consensus for being a robust, solid, well designed, faffree system?

Frere

Ask an  engineer .. depends on what  you  want

Dahon. We know it  is  fundamentally flawed when used  with  a SON and  Possibly Shimano Hubs. but  will be  O.K. with bottle
eWerk......
Quote
I know of at least two cases of different eWerk units permanently disabling the USB communications function on Garmins.  Riding with the headlight on to stabilize the power spikes on high speed descents appears to provide some protection.
Pedal Power  one failure due  to poor assembly (short on input lead) that any  1/2 compotent technician could have fixed in 15 mins.
Tout Terrain I know nothing.... but If  you only have one bike seems a neat idea. Who here has only one bike?
As we all kno.......n+1. The ideal number of bikes :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 13 January, 2012, 08:46:38 am
Can't be the Dahon for me then. 2 x SON 28's and a Shimano N72. Leaning towards the PP+ SIC at the moment.

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrew_s on 13 January, 2012, 01:43:16 pm
Counter intuitively shorting the hub reduces the  drag
Have you tried that?
When I first had DIY switches for 2 x Lumotec Oval, I got the wiring* wrong so that both lights off shorted the hub. I noticed because of the increased vibration through the forks.

*
the intention was to have an independent switch for each light. With the normal primary/secondary set up, if the primary bulb blows you've no light until you replace it - you can't just switch over to the other light without stopping.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 13 January, 2012, 02:03:39 pm
Quote from: PeteJ
Does the cable not power the Garmin at all with the light on, not even from the cable's internal battery?

I have looked into this a bit more and I suspect my issue as reported might have been operator error. I was using the Super-i-Cable switch off, so in effect it was an interface between the dynamo and the Garmin.

It seems from my reading of the instructions  :facepalm: is that I should have had the Super-i-Cable turned on. This way it would have provided power to the Garmin from its battery and in turn it would have shared the dynamo power with the light and recharging of the battery at the same time.  I also think my slow speeds (I averaged around 12 km/h IIRC) wouldn't have helped.

Regards
Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 13 January, 2012, 02:12:15 pm
Sleepy, do you want the (broken) governor thingy off my Reecharge? I'm sure you could fix it and work out how to get it to charge something other than the proprietary USB battery.

Probably not. Repairing is  hard have  you seen modern circuit  boards? For components  read size of grains  of  sea salt.
Might  be  worth an autopsy when you get  back

It's easily repairable: basic through-hole components on a single-sided PCB.  The case prises open without special tools.  I repaired boab's a while ago (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=40524.msg952080#msg952080).  Assuming the same failure mode, it'll need a new electrolytic capacitor and 7806 regulator.

Unfortunately, there isn't room inside the case to cram in some sort of voltage limiter, or even a capacitor with a higher voltage rating.  So unless the rider is slow or does the job of the voltage limiter manually, it's likely to fail again in the same way.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 13 January, 2012, 05:25:11 pm
Kim, looked through your  Dahon thread - that's a toy!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 14 January, 2012, 11:16:03 am
A write up on the PedalPower unit here http://middleagecyclist.blogspot.com/2011/05/pedal-power.html (http://middleagecyclist.blogspot.com/2011/05/pedal-power.html)

At their current offer of £89.39 inc delivery that's quite tempting. http://www.pedalpower.com.au/page30.html (http://www.pedalpower.com.au/page30.html)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 14 January, 2012, 11:56:29 pm
A write up on the PedalPower unit here http://middleagecyclist.blogspot.com/2011/05/pedal-power.html (http://middleagecyclist.blogspot.com/2011/05/pedal-power.html)

That is a good review. It tipped the balance for me in favour of Super-i-Cable. That plus the battery setup in the PedalPower.

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 15 January, 2012, 03:59:42 pm
I have  just  posted  the  solution to the  Dahons  terminal failure onto the  end  of  Kim's  review
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=40524.msg836662#msg836662 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=40524.msg836662#msg836662)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 15 January, 2012, 04:05:07 pm
If you  buy  a  Pedal Power  keep it  dry  this one was  out  in Scottish mist - The case  is  unsealed.

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/hedley_a/SON%20Hub%20and%20Pedal%20Power%20Tests/BatteryClip.jpg)

After soldering  on a  new  contact (piece of  springy  brass and  greasing the  contact  points, the  connection was  still intermittent so I added  an O ring to pull the  clip tight. This clip could  be  a  reliability problem even without  the  water Scottish  mist  :)

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/hedley_a/SON%20Hub%20and%20Pedal%20Power%20Tests/Batterywith0ring.jpg)

This  was  the  unit  with the Cable  fault - the  lead  had been trapped under  a  fixing here  you  can see  what  happened

(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/hedley_a/SON%20Hub%20and%20Pedal%20Power%20Tests/damagedlead.jpg)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 15 January, 2012, 06:05:15 pm
Bah, was about to order a PP + SIC until I saw this....

Which of the units discussed are reasonably waterproof? Or do they all need to go into a bar bag or some sort of container which its wet?

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Biggsy on 15 January, 2012, 06:11:25 pm
Hold on, hold on.  You can make pretty much anything reasonably strong and waterproof if you want to.  It can be difficult when you want an easily un/pluggable connector included, but that itself wouldn't have to be 100% waterproof for the device as a whole to be reasonably durable overall.

First of all, think what you can do with epoxy and self-amalgamating rubber tape and any other stuff you can get your hands on.  Epoxy is good for reinforcing as well as waterproofing and insulating.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Biggsy on 15 January, 2012, 06:14:08 pm
ps.  Some weather-resistant DC power connectors are available (as part of leads, at least).  For details, find a previous thread on the forum discussing MacB's problem with his lights.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 15 January, 2012, 06:23:12 pm
Ah yes, vaguely remember that, ok, will do, be right back and post link when found

Frere

Edit, am guessing its this thread as there is some discussion of waterproofing

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=54288.msg1103916#msg1103916
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Biggsy on 15 January, 2012, 06:37:43 pm
Edit, am guessing its this thread as there is some discussion of waterproofing

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=54288.msg1103916#msg1103916

That's the bunny.  Some of the connectors mentioned there might come in handy for other applications, even for replacing connectors of other sizes (as long as both the plug and socket is replaced).

Apologies for not reading all of this thread on dynamo rechargers etc - but still I'm confident that you can turn any old crap into something good, if you want to, rather than spending much more on a new product altogether.  Obviously that's an exaggeration, but I hope you know what I mean, Harry.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 15 January, 2012, 06:44:05 pm
Thanks for the confirmation. Now to figure out a 4 way switch as mentioned earlier in this thread, i.e. off completely/light only/USB gadget e.g. GPS or iPhone 4 only/both light and USB gadget...

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 15 January, 2012, 06:53:46 pm
waterproof cases http://www.over-board.co.uk/waterproof-iphone-case-aqua.html (http://www.over-board.co.uk/waterproof-iphone-case-aqua.html)

Or a thick plastic bag  :)

You  don't need to worry much about leads conected directly  to the generator and water - it's AC so no electrolytic action

The DC leads and Batteries are the bit to take care of.

Having said all that note my comment about long-term reliablity of the battery connections Vibration is another enemy of Bike mounted Electrikery
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kevina9 on 15 January, 2012, 07:13:44 pm
I'll be installing Softhema S25a (http://softhema.de/index.html) dynamo/USB chargers on a couple of bikes in the near future. The plan is to use them to charge Portapow-like batteries during the day when touring. What components they contain are well encapsulated inside adhesive heat shrink so I am hopeful that they will be pretty waterproof.

If they work I will be well impressed as they weight only 29g (half of that is the switch to toggle between lights and USB output) and cost me only about £10 each from my favourite shop, eBay. I bought the basic version; enhanced models with cache batteries are in the pipeline as well.

FYI a good overview of most of the currently-available USB dynamo chargers can be found on FahrradZukunft (http://fahrradzukunft.de/archiv/) (Bicycle Future). It's a german site, but Bing Translator does a fair job of rendering it in English. The three "Steckdose Unterwegs" or "Socket on the Road" articles compare the main players. And for good measure, Issue 12 contains a couple of designs for building you own, if you are that way inclined!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 15 January, 2012, 07:17:38 pm
Oooh, we have another contender for consideration!

many thanks for that Kevina9

Now off to puruse...reasonable machine translations permitting.

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kevina9 on 15 January, 2012, 07:52:27 pm
You're welcome!

I also considered the Kemo M172 (http://www.kemo-electronic.de/en/House/Home/M172-Bicycle-charge-controller-USB-Mini-B-.php) which can be had for about £25 and is also waterproof.

I went with the Softhema mainly because I managed to snipe it very cheaply, and also because it's more compact, being nor much more than a couple of wires, and therefore easier to install unobtrusively...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Polar Bear on 15 January, 2012, 08:05:01 pm
I'll be installing Softhema S25a (http://softhema.de/index.html) dynamo/USB chargers on a couple of bikes in the near future. The plan is to use them to charge Portapow-like batteries during the day when touring. What components they contain are well encapsulated inside adhesive heat shrink so I am hopeful that they will be pretty waterproof.

If they work I will be well impressed as they weight only 29g (half of that is the switch to toggle between lights and USB output) and cost me only about £10 each from my favourite shop, eBay. I bought the basic version; enhanced models with cache batteries are in the pipeline as well.

FYI a good overview of most of the currently-available USB dynamo chargers can be found on FahrradZukunft (http://fahrradzukunft.de/archiv/) (Bicycle Future). It's a german site, but Bing Translator does a fair job of rendering it in English. The three "Steckdose Unterwegs" or "Socket on the Road" articles compare the main players. And for good measure, Issue 12 contains a couple of designs for building you own, if you are that way inclined!

I don't suppose that you could point me at the ebay shop you use could you please?   A search on   SOFTHEMA S50A    brought me all manner of everything but!!!

Thanks.   :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 15 January, 2012, 08:21:10 pm
Portapower doeing a sale on their premium and max packs atm btw.

Is my understanding correct that having one of these Portapowa (or Morphie or like) as the battery cache between a softhema should adequately protect gadgets?

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kevina9 on 15 January, 2012, 08:32:26 pm
@PolarBear

I sniped my S25As from these - one item from each :
softhema_2011 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/softhema_2011/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686)
softhema_2010 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/softhema_2010/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686)

Both end up with the same seller/manufacturer ... I have only ever seen the S25A on eBay to date. The S50A is a new product, and may not be ready yet.

Try emailing Softhema via eBay for availability?


@Frere
I'm planning to use a PortaPow because a) it's useful to have one and b) it costs a fraction of the price of a replacement smartphone/GPS, if things go badly wrong when charging from a dynamo.

ETA: I.e. I plan on charging the cache battery from the dynamo, and isolate the cache battery from the dynamo before using it to charge the phone.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 16 January, 2012, 10:22:16 am
That thing looks worryingly like it has no electrickery to modulate the current from the hub! I would check your Portapow isn't getting hot on descents. How does it deal with the current when the Portapow isn't attached?
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 16 January, 2012, 05:20:10 pm
The web-site suggests it does the job, reassuring words like switched mode regulator and designed for high voltage generators. The bit about DC input I put down to lost in translation
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 16 January, 2012, 06:04:22 pm
Google translates the important bits as

"The device itself is at first sight only from cable, the mini-USB connector, three brass tubes for connection to the rest of the bike electrics and a switch. The actual charging electronics with green status LED is hidden in a piece of heat shrink tubing in the middle of the cable. The shrink tube with adhesive filling ensures a watertight seal of the electronics. The total weight is 27 grams with a sensational low. Because it is so easy, can be dispensed with an elaborate fortification. Of delivery are a couple of cable ties in the assembly. It works. But not everyone will want it, allow the unit to constantly on the bike.

Switch and connection are designed to manually switch between light operation and charging. Feasible but is also a separate connection to parallel to the light system with the option, switch the charger from the lighting system.

When operating without loads connected to the hub dynamo is already at a comfortable ride that the electronics are pretty hot. This is due to Zener diodes, which limit the input voltage to approximately 15 volts to protect the switching regulator. If the temperature exceeds a certain level, a protection circuit, the device completely. The green "Power Good" LED turns off for a few seconds. With connected consumers have to be relatively sporty way to feel a significant warming."
(http://fahrradzukunft.de/bilder/13/steckdose-unterwegs-3/01.png)

Looks like a neat solution at €39
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 16 January, 2012, 06:41:52 pm
Looks interesting. I wonder if it could be hooked up to http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Trent-iCruiser-IMP1000-Blackberry/dp/B004CHMP50/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce_2
I would want to wire it direct to the hub using piggyback spades leaving the light also permanently directly attached, since the light has it's own switch which I leave permanently set to 'senso'. I find it comforting to know that if my USB charger went tits up during a ride I can simply disconnect it leaving my dynamo light safely connected. Basically I would want to wire it so that the switch selects between USB on and USB off. I am assuming that leaving one of the 3 wires unconnected would achieve this, if I could work out which 2 to use.

I like the sound of charging up a 11000mAh battery pack during the day while touring. It would also be very handy on a camping trip where a mains socket is available to use but not in a secure enough place to leave a Garmin or iPhone unattended. It was like that on the Sem Fed last summer. Worst case scenario would be someone pinching my £35 battery pack rather than my £400 phone.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 16 January, 2012, 06:52:11 pm
Looks interesting. I wonder if it could be hooked up to http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Trent-iCruiser-IMP1000-Blackberry/dp/B004CHMP50/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce_2


That power pack can't be charged via USB. The input requires a 5V 2A barrel connector. I found this out the expensive way  :-[

2 x Veho Pebbles might be a better idea.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 16 January, 2012, 07:07:44 pm
Looks interesting. I wonder if it could be hooked up to http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Trent-iCruiser-IMP1000-Blackberry/dp/B004CHMP50/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce_2


That power pack can't be charged via USB. The input requires a 5V 2A barrel connector. I found this out the expensive way  :-[

2 x Veho Pebbles might be a better idea.

Thanks for that! I have a Veho Pebble already so I could try this out. The softhema is cheap enough to buy and try out on my other bike. The cable is certainly neater than the cable and regulator of the Dahon Reecharge, and gets around the home made switch issue. This could be an ideal solution to buy multiples of for each bike just connecting the battery pack to the one I'm riding when needed. It looks like a good option for occasional use because it's not adding weight and fugliness to the bike.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 20 January, 2012, 07:40:06 pm
The softhema's on eBay already have bids on them, so am not going to, just in case its fellow forummers.

The PedalPower + SIC have gone back up to full price, serves me right for dithering.

Looks like getting either the Kemo M172 or full price softhemas from one of the dealers listed.

Couple queries:

1. are the Portapower units reasonably waterproof?
2. Planning to use iPhone4, still don't know enough about GPS units and seems to be very overly elaborate to operate (perhaps something for Apple to work on once they have their TV out?), so am I going to be ok to recharge an iPhone4 in use off a portapower and either a Kemo M172 or softhema?

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: MattH on 20 January, 2012, 07:46:17 pm
1. are the Portapower units reasonably waterproof?

I've had no problems. However, I keep them in a top tube bag that has a rain cover, inside a resealable sandwich bag (with just the cable sticking out to power the GPS and/or phone). The USB sockets have no inherent sealing to keep water out.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 20 January, 2012, 09:22:32 pm
The softhema's on eBay already have bids on them, so am not going to, just in case its fellow forummers.

The PedalPower + SIC have gone back up to full price, serves me right for dithering.

Looks like getting either the Kemo M172 or full price softhemas from one of the dealers listed.

Couple queries:

1. are the Portapower units reasonably waterproof?
2. Planning to use iPhone4, still don't know enough about GPS units and seems to be very overly elaborate to operate (perhaps something for Apple to work on once they have their TV out?), so am I going to be ok to recharge an iPhone4 in use off a portapower and either a Kemo M172 or softhema?

Frere

This is only a guess, but as an iPhone 4S owner and having a couple of these battery packs and some experience dynamo charging .... I reckon you could have problems with the iPhone charge running down faster than the battery packs can recharge it. I am basing this on the iPhone being much more power hungry than a Garmin Edge, and charging a Garmin Edge while using it, especially with the back light on, takes absolutely ages.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 20 January, 2012, 10:17:23 pm
.....

bah!

.....

Thanks for that, Feline, tis appreciated.

Re think incoming....

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 20 January, 2012, 10:51:10 pm
Well Feline, had a quick browse over in that yonder CTC forum and seems that e-Werk works fine with the iPhone 4, and the iPhone 4S, no cache battery needed. Here's the thread

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=54604&hilit=E+Werk

and there is mention also of this switch:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150485793054#ht_753wt_898

So, seems the e Werk is the leading contender at the moment.

Frere



Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 20 January, 2012, 11:01:49 pm
Well Feline, had a quick browse over in that yonder CTC forum and seems that e-Werk works fine with the iPhone 4, and the iPhone 4S, no cache battery needed. Here's the thread

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=54604&hilit=E+Werk

and there is mention also of this switch:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150485793054#ht_753wt_898

So, seems the e Werk is the leading contender at the moment.

Frere

Don't get me wrong, you can charge up your iPhone from the cache battery/USB charger itself. This works especially well in aircraft mode where the phone isn't using so much power. However if you try to use the iPhone as a navigation device continuously it's current drain is so high you will have problems charging it back up at the rate you are draining it. I understood from your post you wanted to use the iPhone in this way rather than just keeping it charged for the odd phonecall etc.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 20 January, 2012, 11:16:14 pm
Yes, you're right Feline, I did, but seems that will now have to pop it on every now and then when I want a location fix as to where I am, i.e. when lost :P

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 21 January, 2012, 06:46:51 pm
I mentioned the Softhema on the Thorn forum. A chap there had his die on him after a few days http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17208#msg17208 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17208#msg17208)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 21 January, 2012, 08:23:12 pm
I mentioned the Softhema on the Thorn forum. A chap there had his die on him after a few days http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17208#msg17208 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17208#msg17208)

I am planning on buying one just for fun to test it out given the low cost. Because it's output is to a mini USB connector I have already bought a female mini-USB to female-USB adapter for £2 so I can connect it to my Pebble 5000wotsit battery pack. I like to keep these kinds of devices a battery pack away from my Garmin and iPhone in case of epic phailz and so they don't suffer from a constant on and off current. I will put it through it's paces a bit and let you know how it performs in the wild.
It has the advantage of being cheap enough to have one on each bike, a built in switch, and a connector that will be easy to disconnect the stuff from when it is not needed leaving nothing very unsightly on the bike.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 04 February, 2012, 04:52:16 pm
http://oddbikes.com/ (http://oddbikes.com/)   Another contender. This may be of interest to the more technically minded as the schematics & design are available for download.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 04 February, 2012, 07:25:42 pm
http://oddbikes.com/ (http://oddbikes.com/)   Another contender. This may be of interest to the more technically minded as the schematics & design are available for download.

*peers at schematic*

Looks like a sensible switching regulator, so should be reasonably efficient.  Standard zener clamp over-voltage protection, though.  Don't know what the heatsinking's like, but it's probably wise to avoid R17 descents and fenland tailwinds without a load.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: aidan.f on 04 February, 2012, 10:05:43 pm
~Agree Kim The Overvoltage  clamp is  1.5 Watt SMT... needs a  pair of thyristors  :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Wobbly John on 11 February, 2012, 08:33:33 pm
Spotted this one on Ebay: Bike charger light USB dynamo (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-Charge-light-USB-dynamo-generator-bicycle-phone-camera-gps-satnav-charger-/330685818054?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights&hash=item4cfe6924c6)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 14 February, 2012, 10:54:44 am
I saw Evans are off-loading the Dahon Recharge for £30.... so I clicked 'buy'. Perhaps a decision I'll regret in time (given all that's been said about the unit) but I figured I'd give it a go anyway since there are reports of people having had no problems with it.... perhaps they don't descend at speed though?!

Anyways, are there any suggestions simple enough for idiots (I.e. me!) to follow that might preserve the life of the recharge? 
Title: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 14 February, 2012, 03:08:17 pm
Cheers for the tip off about the cheapo reecharge at Evans. I've just made a purchase. Thought it worth a punt at that price.

Gonna try it on my commuter for a few weeks to assess reliability (there's a 40mph descent on the commute - so that should test it!)

Would also be interested if there's a DIY mod to improve it.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 14 February, 2012, 03:16:56 pm
I saw Evans are off-loading the Dahon Recharge for £30.... so I clicked 'buy'. Perhaps a decision I'll regret in time (given all that's been said about the unit) but I figured I'd give it a go anyway since there are reports of people having had no problems with it.... perhaps they don't descend at speed though?!

Anyways, are there any suggestions simple enough for idiots (I.e. me!) to follow that might preserve the life of the recharge?

Use an internally limited bottle dynamo.

Disconnect the rectifier/regulator thingy from the dynamo, or turn your lights on, whenever the battery isn't charging.

Don't ride faster than about 12mph.

Stick a couple of chunky 25V zener diodes back to back across the inputs, replace them when they fail short-circuit.

The proper solution would be the crowbar circuit discussed recently, but that's getting more complex.  There's probably room inside the case for a re-engineered circuit using SMD components, though...


ETA: For 30 quid I'm tempted though, even if the regulator unit's going straight in the bin.  The battery pack isn't bad.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 15 February, 2012, 08:40:31 am
The battery pack isn't bad.

That was partially my thinking. Obviously I rather have a working gizmo bit as well but it sounds like there's fat chance of that though - 12mph? Even I ride faster than that!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 15 February, 2012, 11:04:48 am
The battery pack isn't bad.

That was partially my thinking. Obviously I rather have a working gizmo bit as well but it sounds like there's fat chance of that though - 12mph? Even I ride faster than that!

What I did isn't all that complicated really.

Buy a micro toggle switch with it's little rubber cover from Maplins.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/sub-miniature-toggle-switches-2341
http://www.maplin.co.uk/sub-miniature-toggle-switch-cover-2348
Connect the cable on the Reecharge that they intend you to connect to your dynamo hub to the switch
Connect a paired wire from the switch to 2 spade connectors piggy-backing on your dynamo hub (this allows you to leave your dyno lights permanently attached and if you ever had a wiring problem with your Reecharge you could simply disconnect it and still have light).
I don't have a terribly good understanding of which wire to connect to which terminal on the switch so I experimented by trial and error until it was right. I used the small spade connectors that came with my IQ Cyo light to connect the wires to it.
Then  I wrapped the back bit of the switch in self amalgamating tape to get a pretty water tight seal, and zip tied the switch to the side of my stem where I can easily turn it on and off when riding.

This system works very well because you can use your dyno light completely as normal via it's own switch. You turn the Reecharge on and off depending on when you want it to charge. I turn it off if I am ascending anything major to limit drag  :D Always check that when you have it on the green charging LED is lit. This is because if it is not then there is potential for burnout. I keep the Reecharge's 'receiving current' button permanently set to on, but if the battery pack input wire gets loose then it would not be receiving the current so keeping the green light on the side of the pack somewhere you can see it or peer in  a bag at it when moving is handy. At the start of a ride I make sure the charging wire and USB cable are firmly pushed into the battery pack.
With this system you can use lights alone, Reecharge charging alone, or both at the same time although this will make your dyno light a bit less bright so I only do it when I really need to. Forward planning by getting Garmin and battery pack fully charged at nightfall means you shouldn't really need to run both even when riding for days and nights solidly. I like the reassurance of knowing I can do both if I need to though.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 15 February, 2012, 11:37:22 am
Thank you Andrew, £30 isn't too bad for a punt, like Kim says. Ordered one, despite my saying will never shop at Evans again (see reviews).

Thank you Feline, reserved two sets at a Maplins store and will go over to collect later.

Should I also stock up on 25V zenor diodes whatever these are? :P

Frere

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 16 February, 2012, 09:17:39 am
Thanks for the tip Feline. I'll see if I can source an aesthetically pleasing and waterproof switch from somewhere around here.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: The Mechanic on 16 February, 2012, 10:01:57 am
I saw Evans are off-loading the Dahon Recharge for £30.... so I clicked 'buy'. Perhaps a decision I'll regret in time (given all that's been said about the unit) but I figured I'd give it a go anyway since there are reports of people having had no problems with it.... perhaps they don't descend at speed though?!

Anyways, are there any suggestions simple enough for idiots (I.e. me!) to follow that might preserve the life of the recharge?

Is this the Biologic Recharge we are talking about?
Title: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 16 February, 2012, 10:08:56 am
Yep

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 16 February, 2012, 11:44:59 am
Is this the Biologic Recharge we are talking about?

Indeed it is. I thought it was the same as the Dahon one. Is that not correct?
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 16 February, 2012, 06:14:37 pm
AIUI 'Biologic' is a Dahon brand for accessories.

Occasional references to "Ecologic ReeCharge" on this forum and elsewhere are merely errors.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 16 February, 2012, 06:45:39 pm
I'm quite tempted to order another, although I have just won an eBay auction for the German thingy so I am going to try that in conjunction with my Reecharge battery pack to see how well it works :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 16 February, 2012, 07:07:41 pm
I have just won an eBay auction for the German thingy

Jammy sod ;) If I had known....

If (and when?) the Dahon gizmo packs up, I'd probably make like you and buy a 'rectifier only' option like the e-werk to use with the battery. It's the battery that's the expensive bit!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 23 February, 2012, 02:31:21 pm
My Pedalpower SIC has been sitting around on my desk for a while whilst I think about how to install it.

Upthread is mentioned that it is rather good electrically - and I don't have the knowledge to contradict that.

First the supplied handlebar bracket - only permits one orientation on the handlebars, and looks rather flimsy, and as my bars tend towards being crowded anyway this wasn't an option.   Digging around in the various boxes in the garage I came up with a cheap Decathlon bar bag http://www.decathlon.co.uk/25l-handlebar-pannier-id_5994533.html  which fastens with just velcro straps.  Unused because, on the bike I bought it for, it flopped around alarmingly, but on my Audax bike the cable arrangement holds it in place admirably.

So - holes made in bottom right corner for the cable coming in from the dynamo, and another just below the middle of the zip for an output to the Garmin; added an elastic band to hold the "box" et voila:

(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/porkypete58/ppower.jpg)

(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/porkypete58/bag.jpg)

All tested and working just fine.

However the "piggyback" spade arrangement just has to go.
(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt318/porkypete58/hub.jpg)

That is at a level of fugliness up with which I will not put - not to mention the chance of losing small parts in the grass when disconnecting it to attend to faerie visitations, or the fact that with the SIC cable wrapped around, or taped, to the fork blade, the bar bag is effectively "hard-wired" in to the bike, which is not good for cafe-stops.

What I really want is a single wire running from the Shimano "lego brick" connector on the hub, up the fork to the bag and the SIC, and then a wire back out to the light, all with some sort of 3-way quick disconnect/reconnect capability so the bag can come off easily.   Doesn't need to be especially waterproof as hopefully it would be in the bag itself , and further protected by plastic bags as necessary, nor does it need any switching as the light and SIC have their own switches.   Some sort of co-axial connector (like the one the SIC uses on the ouput to its various accessory ends) would be good as it would minimise the size of hole in the side of the bag, and an audax-tired mind would not have to think about connecting in any particular orientation.

Anyone got any good ideas on 3 way connectors that can be wired up by a simpleton ?



Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 23 February, 2012, 03:05:52 pm
My approach to this is to set it up so that the dynamo and light are hardwired, in the interests of reliability, with a connector into which the charging gubbins can be connected (or not) as desired.  In my mind that minimises the amount of things to go wrong, either physically or due to tiredness and stupidity.  In the event of a malfunction (or café stop), the charger can simply be disconnected, leaving the lighting system undisturbed.

What I've got on our dynamo equipped cycles is wire from the dynamo to a Tamiya connector mounted solidly at a convenient (in both wiring and luggage terms) point on the bike, with another wire running from the Tamiya connector to the light.

Dawes tourer:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/kitchen_pr0n/IMG_2573.sized.jpg)

Streetmachine GT:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/SMGT/IMG_2209.sized.jpg)


On the Trice, the wiring splits at the dynamo, which has two sets of terminals, with the socket attached to the rack stay.  If it ever gets upgraded to a SON, I'll re-do that section of the wiring:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3450.sized.jpg)


ETA: I've used the female half of the Tamiya connector (which confusingly contains male pins) on the bike.  This is because it can be mounted flush against a surface, and because the male connector contains the bit that's most likely to snap off.  I've also made sure that the connector polarity is consistent between bikes, on the off-chance that it may matter at some point in future.

As mentioned in another thread, these connectors are non-waterproof.  I'm working on the assumption that water may get in to the open connector, but will be able to dry out easily.  There's plenty of physical separation between the conductors, so it's not an issue electrically.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 23 February, 2012, 03:28:08 pm
Much more sensible than my imaginings - thank you, Kim. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 23 February, 2012, 03:35:06 pm
Thanks for that Kim, very useful.

Having now received the dahon recharge, and looking at the wires provided with a view to implementing Feline's suggestions, I had similar questions to PpPete. As I'll probably put both the rectifier gizmo and battery in my bar bag, and only wanting one wire from the dynohub (to avoid the fugliness seen above), it meant some kind of branching connector/switch arrangement on the wire to the light. I think I can live without a switch if the connectors are conveniently placed.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: thing1 on 23 February, 2012, 04:54:10 pm
My current (groan) thinking is to get an ewerk from one of the German online vendors (quite a bit cheaper than UK) and a separate Li-Poly battery (the B&M ones look overpriced).   Would have to be one that will both take charge from the ewerk and give it to the Garmin simultaneously.   If I'm right this "should" give me minimum faffage and maximum reliability.

I've been trying to find a descent alternative to the B&M cache battery, but all the ones I tried so far fail to provide charge whilst being charged.

I even started to make a spread sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AorPWl4EfyhUdFJ5cjN4bm9YNkx5eUp0LU9rVFFveGc&single=true&gid=0&output=html), which tells me I should next try the Tekkeon TekCharge MP1860A (http://www.tekkeon.com/products-tekcharge1860-specs.html). Apparently this will give at least 3x more mAh per gram and per £ than the B&M.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 23 February, 2012, 05:03:57 pm
Thanks for that Kim, very useful.

Having now received the dahon recharge, and looking at the wires provided with a view to implementing Feline's suggestions, I had similar questions to PpPete. As I'll probably put both the rectifier gizmo and battery in my bar bag, and only wanting one wire from the dynohub (to avoid the fugliness seen above), it meant some kind of branching connector/switch arrangement on the wire to the light. I think I can live without a switch if the connectors are conveniently placed.

If I understood Kim's arrrangement correctly, one side of the Tamiya has wires to both light and hub.  The other side just goes to whatever you have in your bar bag.   
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 23 February, 2012, 06:32:16 pm
If I understood Kim's arrrangement correctly, one side of the Tamiya has wires to both light and hub.  The other side just goes to whatever you have in your bar bag.

Indeed.  They're designed for relatively hefty currents, so there's no problem fitting two wires in each pin.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 23 February, 2012, 07:54:56 pm
I am astounded by the fugliness of the hub connection above! My piggy back spades with heat shrink on them look pretty much identical to single spades  :-\
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 23 February, 2012, 08:15:52 pm
I must confess that I'm slightly confused by how four spade connectors attach to a Shimano lego-brick in the first place...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Frere on 23 February, 2012, 08:34:43 pm
function over form, init? :P

Frere
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 24 February, 2012, 08:50:12 am
I must confess that I'm slightly confused by how four spade connectors attach to a Shimano lego-brick in the first place...

via the use of what they call a piggy-back spade, not very wel illustrated on this page: http://www.pedalpower.com.au/page22.html - but essentially there's a Shimano lego-brick to male spade converter, then a female spade with a "side-arm" that is a male spade.

I am astounded by the fugliness of the hub connection above! My piggy back spades with heat shrink on them look pretty much identical to single spades  :-\
Probably because I put a chunk of sugru over the back of each male spade to give something for cold wet fingers to grab hold of.  I'd like to see a picture of your arrangement though, if not too much trouble.

Off to my local R/C model shop later to look at Tamiya connectors.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 24 February, 2012, 09:45:44 am
I've been trying to find a descent alternative to the B&M cache battery, but all the ones I tried so far fail to provide charge whilst being charged.

I even started to make a spread sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AorPWl4EfyhUdFJ5cjN4bm9YNkx5eUp0LU9rVFFveGc&single=true&gid=0&output=html), which tells me I should next try the Tekkeon TekCharge MP1860A (http://www.tekkeon.com/products-tekcharge1860-specs.html). Apparently this will give at least 3x more mAh per gram and per £ than the B&M.
The battery with my dahon will kick out as it's receiving, but my pebble doesn't. Mr Smith uses his
TeckNet (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet%C2%AE-Dual-Port-Universal-Incredible-Blackberry/dp/B000NDQ92W/ref=pd_cp_ce_2) with his e-werk.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 24 February, 2012, 10:34:38 am
via the use of what they call a piggy-back spade,

You can maybe see them better in this photo.

(http://www.aushiker.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_2502.jpg)

BTW does anyone know the size of them or where to get some spares online?

Thanks
Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 24 February, 2012, 11:00:29 am

BTW does anyone know the size of them or where to get some spares online?


A new piggyback set is €15.
Honestly don't know if they are a standard size, the male blade is about 4.8mm wide and I guess that is the crucial dimension, but all the ones I've found online are quoted at 6.3mm size .
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: MattH on 24 February, 2012, 11:34:23 am
SJS do them (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/schmidt-cable-connector-non-insulated-48-mm-female-with-piggyback-connector-pack-of-20-prod23165/?src=froogle), but not particularly cheap (£9.60 for a box of 20).

FWIW I'm using 6.3mm connectors on one of my bikes onto a SON, because that's what I had to hand :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 24 February, 2012, 12:27:54 pm
Off to my local R/C model shop later to look at Tamiya connectors.

Bugger... all the convenience of a shop for R/C models, trains, scalextric nerds about 1/2 mile away... and they only stock the pre-wired connectors.  :o Now ordered on-line.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 25 February, 2012, 10:59:38 am
Thanks for the suggestions and sizing information.

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Deano on 25 February, 2012, 02:11:18 pm
I saw Evans are off-loading the Dahon Recharge for £30.... so I clicked 'buy'. Perhaps a decision I'll regret in time (given all that's been said about the unit) but I figured I'd give it a go anyway since there are reports of people having had no problems with it.... perhaps they don't descend at speed though?!

Anyways, are there any suggestions simple enough for idiots (I.e. me!) to follow that might preserve the life of the recharge?

Mine has survived a month in India (tempting fate, anyone?). The trick seems to be careful management: making sure it's actually charging, which is an art in itself. As Kim says, it's a decent USB-chargeable battery in its own right, which you can clip to your handlebars.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 25 February, 2012, 03:46:18 pm
The trick seems to be careful management: making sure it's actually charging, which is an art in itself.

Yes, that appears to be half the trick. I'm going to have to devise some sort of mental note/reminder thing to ensure I remember. And then to turn it off for descents!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 26 February, 2012, 11:40:07 am
The trick seems to be careful management: making sure it's actually charging, which is an art in itself.

Yes, that appears to be half the trick. I'm going to have to devise some sort of mental note/reminder thing to ensure I remember. And then to turn it off for descents!

I do the opposite and turn mine on during the descents! Make sure the green light is showing on the battery pack (receiving current) and it will be fine. I turn mine off via my own switch on ascents to minimise drag when I don't want it. Downhill the power comes for free  :D

The flaw with the Dahon is that they put an on-off switch on the battery pack at all, since they categorically tell you never to have it turned off when the rectifier is connected to the hub. I never turn mine off for receiving power ever, I use my home made switch to basically disconnect the whole thing from the hub instead which is why mine is still going strong after months of use (so far).
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 26 February, 2012, 01:25:13 pm
I assume (and it is only an assumption) that the on/off switch prevents the charging electronics from slowly discharging the battery when it isn't doing anything.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 26 February, 2012, 01:34:12 pm
I assume (and it is only an assumption) that the on/off switch prevents the charging electronics from slowly discharging the battery when it isn't doing anything.

I don't think it does, at present I am using the battery pack only on my non-dyno hub new bike, and I charged it up from the mains about 3 weeks ago. I'm doing mainly 100k rides at the moment so the Garmin doesn't tend to need recharging much during rides unless I forgot to charge it fully beforehand. The Reecharge pack still has full power according to the 3 LEDs and is permanently set to 'on'. The green light only shows when it is actually getting current though, not all the time. I'm pretty impressed at its ability not to discharge when not used.

I've always assumed that they designed the on-off button so that people could turn it off when they didn't want any extra drag, then they later realised that this just burns out the rectifier so then added the instructions never to leave it off when moving  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 26 February, 2012, 03:21:27 pm
I do the opposite and turn mine on during the descents! Make sure the green light is showing on the battery pack (receiving current) and it will be fine.

Yes, sorry, I meant turn off the rectifier gizmo thing itself (with the diy fitted switch) rather than turn off the battery. My intention was to (try and) leave the battery on all of the time.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 26 February, 2012, 05:27:34 pm
I do the opposite and turn mine on during the descents! Make sure the green light is showing on the battery pack (receiving current) and it will be fine.

Yes, sorry, I meant turn off the rectifier gizmo thing itself (with the diy fitted switch) rather than turn off the battery. My intention was to (try and) leave the battery on all of the time.

 :thumbsup: I was just checking you weren't heading for a burnout!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 26 February, 2012, 07:53:22 pm
Separate review of Pedalpower SIC posted in the reviews section:
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=57190.0

Some of it repeats stuff posted upthread here, but thought it was worth a stand-alone review now I've actually used it, and investgated behaviour "on the road", if only briefly so far.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 07 May, 2012, 03:33:28 pm
I mentioned the Softhema on the Thorn forum. A chap there had his die on him after a few days http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17208#msg17208 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17208#msg17208)

I am planning on buying one just for fun to test it out given the low cost. Because it's output is to a mini USB connector I have already bought a female mini-USB to female-USB adapter for £2 so I can connect it to my Pebble 5000wotsit battery pack. I like to keep these kinds of devices a battery pack away from my Garmin and iPhone in case of epic phailz and so they don't suffer from a constant on and off current. I will put it through it's paces a bit and let you know how it performs in the wild.
It has the advantage of being cheap enough to have one on each bike, a built in switch, and a connector that will be easy to disconnect the stuff from when it is not needed leaving nothing very unsightly on the bike.

OK I can now report on using the Softhema thingy with a battery pack (the Reecharge one) on a multi-day ride. We did 536km riding to the Brevet Cymru and back over a 44 hour period. I wired up the Softhema cable direct to piggyback spades on the SON dynamo hub using a twin core wire from my tool box (I think it was the one you get with the hub for adding a rear light) as an extension because the front hub is a long way from where I want my Garmin on the back of the tandem.

The Softhema has 3 wires as it's maker intends you to put it in the lighting circuit and the USB circuit so that it's switch selects between dynamo light and USB (and never both or neither). I didn't want mine wired like that for 3 reasons:
1. In the event of a problem with the Softhema wire I want to be able to disconnect it and use the dynamo light. I feel this is less risky when you are really reliant on your dynamo light. This means I want the dynamo light to have it's own 2 spades at the hub and be unmolested by the extra wiring.
2. I want to have the option of turning the USB charging circuit off. My switch does USB on or off with how I've wired it.
3. I want to be able to have light (all be it dimmer) and USB charging at the same time in certain situations. I've done this on occasion at dawn where the Garmin has finally used all the battery pack juice overnight but the ambient light is still a little dim and I want to keep my front light on to be seen so I'm not too bothered by it being a bit dimmer than usual.

So what I did was simply connect the green and white Softhema wires to the 2 terminals of my dyno hub leaving the 3rd wire end insulated and unused. I covered the join with heat shrink and zip tied it along the middle frame tube of the tandem.

Now the Softhema wire ends in a mini-USB connector which would plug directly into your Garmin. I don't like this system because you are really trusting the thing not to allow current spikes through that could cause damage, and in any case things like garmins hate getting stop-start external power and would keep bleeping and giving 'external power lost' messages every time you stopped at a junction. So I bought a female mini-USB to female USB connector very cheaply on ebay. I have a USB cable that fits the Dahon Reecharge current in hole which I plug into that. These wires and the battery pack sits inside my small frame bag, and I tied the Softhema switch to the frame where I can reach it.

I left home with the Garmin and Reecharge pack full. We rode the 3 hours to Chepstow and the first few hours of the Audax on the Garmin's internal battery with the Softhema switch off. In the afternoon I turned it on and achieved a fully charged up Garmin and a full battery pack at dusk. I then turned the Softhema off Simon turned the Edelux on. I ran the Garmin with the backlight on constantly at 5% all night as I always do. At 6am the battery pack had just fully discharged and the Garmin was at 3/4 full. By the time we got home the Garmin was still half full, but I could have charged everything up again during the daylight riding if I had wanted to. It all worked exactly as planned and gives me confidence to know the system will work on a 600km or multi-day tour so long as we do enough riding each day to recharge it all  :thumbsup:

In summary, the Softema wire is neat, quite cheap and it works. You just need to work out how you are going to connect it's mini-USB end to whatever it is you plan to connect.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bikey-mikey on 09 May, 2012, 10:58:43 am
aaaaargh...

I've just read this whole thread in one go - it makes sense for a while, then it blanks me with electronics jargon that I have never learned (don't laugh) such as regulator, male / female spades, etc etc etc - wish I still had a brain...

I'm running a SON dynamo with Supernova light, connected directly together with the Supernova wiring.

Separately I use a Tecknet iEP380 to top up/recharge the Garmin(s) - the Tecknet gets charged up in MacDonalds or hotels or home..... it does 30 plus hours on the Garmin(s) so not really a problem...... however..... I have often wondered about using the dynamo to recharge the Tecknet, but my LBS don't have experience of, ahem, the stuff on this thread......

I do have issues with the cables between the Tecknet and the Garmins breaking, so am forever buying new ones, but we are talking extremely high mileage, and mainly on audax style rough roads, so there is a lot of vibration which it is convenient to blame.

What I need is for someone to tell me what to buy to tie this all together, neatly, so I can recharge from the dynamo as well, keeping the dynamo / light connection hard wired, with the rest plugged into / removable from it, a la Feline solution, .......... or preferably to buy the gubbins for me, and then come along and fit it, and teach me how to use it......

I have a great coffee machine, and can provide lots of CAIK....    O:-)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 10 May, 2012, 06:25:56 pm
...it makes sense for a while, then it blanks me with electronics jargon that I have never learned (don't laugh) such as regulator, male / female spades, etc etc etc - wish I still had a brain...

This bit is easy, you just need to think of the male terminals penetrating the orifice of the female ones and the terminology then makes perfect sence  ;)
The regulator is just a small blob thing in the wire from the hub to the battery to do things to the current to make it suitable (like remove big spikes and stuff like that you don't need to know about).

Separately I use a Tecknet iEP380 to top up/recharge the Garmin(s) - the Tecknet gets charged up in MacDonalds or hotels or home..... it does 30 plus hours on the Garmin(s) so not really a problem...... however..... I have often wondered about using the dynamo to recharge the Tecknet, but my LBS don't have experience of, ahem, the stuff on this thread......

Technets are fine with one caveat, they cannot be charged up themselves and charge the device at the same time. This means on long tours or rides like PBP where you won't have access to a power socket for the whole 90 hours there are logistical problems with working out when to connect what and for how long. Not what you need when you're riding. This is where the Dahon Reecharge battery pack is pretty unique, because it can do both at once. I don't know of any other USB chargeable battery pack that can do the same.

What I need is for someone to tell me what to buy to tie this all together, neatly, so I can recharge from the dynamo as well, keeping the dynamo / light connection hard wired, with the rest plugged into / removable from it, a la Feline solution, .......... or preferably to buy the gubbins for me, and then come along and fit it, and teach me how to use it......

I have a great coffee machine, and can provide lots of CAIK....    O:-)

I could certainly show you my set up, and/or help you fit and fettle your cables. However you need to decide which system to order first!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 10 May, 2012, 07:30:31 pm
I don't know of any other USB chargeable battery pack that can do the same.
The pebble doesn't, but the teck-net does.
The reecharge battery has a feeble capacity compared to either of them.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 10 May, 2012, 07:33:07 pm
I don't know of any other USB chargeable battery pack that can do the same.
The pebble doesn't, but the teck-net does.
The reecharge battery has a feeble capacity compared to either of them.

Which Tech-net have you got? I have a 7000mAh one and it can definitely not do both simultaneously (nor can the pebble as you say).
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 10 May, 2012, 07:34:14 pm
 

aaaaargh...

I've just read this whole thread in one go - it makes sense for a while, then it blanks me with electronics jargon that I have never learned (don't laugh) such as regulator, male / female spades, etc etc etc - wish I still had a brain...

I'm running a SON dynamo with Supernova light, connected directly together with the Supernova wiring.

Separately I use a Tecknet iEP380 to top up/recharge the Garmin(s) - the Tecknet gets charged up in MacDonalds or hotels or home..... it does 30 plus hours on the Garmin(s) so not really a problem...... however..... I have often wondered about using the dynamo to recharge the Tecknet, but my LBS don't have experience of, ahem, the stuff on this thread......

I do have issues with the cables between the Tecknet and the Garmins breaking, so am forever buying new ones, but we are talking extremely high mileage, and mainly on audax style rough roads, so there is a lot of vibration which it is convenient to blame.

What I need is for someone to tell me what to buy to tie this all together, neatly, so I can recharge from the dynamo as well, keeping the dynamo / light connection hard wired, with the rest plugged into / removable from it, a la Feline solution, .......... or preferably to buy the gubbins for me, and then come along and fit it, and teach me how to use it......

I have a great coffee machine, and can provide lots of CAIK....    O:-)

The Pedalpower SIC seems to be able to take power from the dynamo and recharge its internal battery/power the garmin via usb at the same time. 

The setup I have (a switched light hard wired into the dynamo - and a "plug in" option to bring the SIC into play) would suit your requirements I think.
The SIC internal battery is a lot less mAh than the standalone ones like Tecknet, but will provide "external power" and hence backlighting to a Garmin for a good few hours even if not connected to the dyno.

Remind me to show you next time we meet. Chepstow on the 19th?
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 10 May, 2012, 08:39:37 pm
The TeckNet that fboab refers to is mine, I think (though she's just bought a new one - a whopping 12000mAh!). It's the 5000mAh version with 0.5a, 1.0a outputs and a micro USB input.

When connected to an e-werk, and my phone, it has claimed to be both charging and discharging at the same time.

But - it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned - a 5000mAh store (or more these days -just one year on) can hold enough charge to keep a smartphone righteous, and be "on charge" on the bike during daylight hours.

I suspect fboab's new 12000mAh store would take a full week tour of cycling to charge off the e-werk, but then again - could recharge my HTC at least 5 times.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 10 May, 2012, 08:45:31 pm
The TeckNet that fboab refers to is mine, I think (though she's just bought a new one - a whopping 12000mAh!). It's the 5000mAh version with 0.5a, 1.0a outputs and a micro USB input.

When connected to an e-werk, and my phone, it has claimed to be both charging and discharging at the same time.

But - it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned - a 5000mAh store (or more these days -just one year on) can hold enough charge to keep a smartphone righteous, and be "on charge" on the bike during daylight hours.

I suspect fboab's new 12000mAh store would take a full week tour of cycling to charge off the e-werk, but then again - could recharge my HTC at least 5 times.

Interesting to know! I had thought about using my 7000mAh Tech-net for recharging everything at night on the Sem Fed this summer then recharging it by day, however it gives an 8 hour to fully charge time in the instructions, which will be more than the riding time some days and with one bike we only have one dyno hub to play with! We will have a Garmin Edge 700, an eTrex and 2 iPhones to keep charged off that. It could end up being a good excuse to hole-up in a cafe with a mains socket sometimes though  ;D
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 10 May, 2012, 08:49:59 pm
Are you camping? Get a BFO solar panel, stick it on your tent and leave the battery pack there.

I've heard it's quite sunny in France :).
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 10 May, 2012, 08:51:19 pm
Are you camping? Get a BFO solar panel, stick it on your tent and leave the battery pack there.

I've heard it's quite sunny in France :).

I heard that too, although on last year's Sem Fed we had 4 glorious sunny days and then 3 days of solid rain and I had to ride home with entire panniers full of heavy wet crap!!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 10 May, 2012, 08:53:40 pm
Are you camping? Get a BFO solar panel, stick it on your tent and leave the battery pack there.

I've heard it's quite sunny in France :).

I heard that too, although on last year's Sem Fed we had 4 glorious sunny days and then 3 days of solid rain and I had to ride home with entire panniers full of heavy wet crap!!

I'm shocked. They have loos there too, y'know. There's no need to take your crap home...  ;)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 10 May, 2012, 08:57:43 pm
Are you camping? Get a BFO solar panel, stick it on your tent and leave the battery pack there.

I've heard it's quite sunny in France :).

I heard that too, although on last year's Sem Fed we had 4 glorious sunny days and then 3 days of solid rain and I had to ride home with entire panniers full of heavy wet crap!!

I'm shocked. They have loos there too, y'know. There's no need to take your crap home...  ;)

Well I dunno, the cycle-camping field had one uni-sex loo block with about 6 toilets, no bog roll and 1 sink to share between 200 campers :o :o :o
I'm using a Shewee this year!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Veloman on 10 May, 2012, 09:11:08 pm
I'm using a Shewee this year!

These are brilliant and a couple of female mountaineers I know use them to save the crouching and removing all the kit.

I remember happily chatting to someone at dusk very high-up on Denali as we were both peeing into the toilet hole in the ice.  Suddenly saw what was happening and realised I was chatting to a female using a shewee.  Never thought the long blond hair and relatively high pitch voice was a clue!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bikey-mikey on 14 May, 2012, 05:28:22 pm


aaaaargh...

I've just read this whole thread in one go - it makes sense for a while, then it blanks me with electronics jargon that I have never learned (don't laugh) such as regulator, male / female spades, etc etc etc - wish I still had a brain...

I'm running a SON dynamo with Supernova light, connected directly together with the Supernova wiring.

Separately I use a Tecknet iEP380 to top up/recharge the Garmin(s) - the Tecknet gets charged up in MacDonalds or hotels or home..... it does 30 plus hours on the Garmin(s) so not really a problem...... however..... I have often wondered about using the dynamo to recharge the Tecknet, but my LBS don't have experience of, ahem, the stuff on this thread......

I do have issues with the cables between the Tecknet and the Garmins breaking, so am forever buying new ones, but we are talking extremely high mileage, and mainly on audax style rough roads, so there is a lot of vibration which it is convenient to blame.

What I need is for someone to tell me what to buy to tie this all together, neatly, so I can recharge from the dynamo as well, keeping the dynamo / light connection hard wired, with the rest plugged into / removable from it, a la Feline solution, .......... or preferably to buy the gubbins for me, and then come along and fit it, and teach me how to use it......

I have a great coffee machine, and can provide lots of CAIK....    O:-)

The Pedalpower SIC seems to be able to take power from the dynamo and recharge its internal battery/power the garmin via usb at the same time. 

The setup I have (a switched light hard wired into the dynamo - and a "plug in" option to bring the SIC into play) would suit your requirements I think.
The SIC internal battery is a lot less mAh than the standalone ones like Tecknet, but will provide "external power" and hence backlighting to a Garmin for a good few hours even if not connected to the dyno.

Remind me to show you next time we meet. Chepstow on the 19th?

Chepstow on the 19th is a good idea - I know we've met but not sure I'll recognise, so you may have to find me...   :-[
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: cycleman on 14 May, 2012, 07:30:14 pm
last month i had my my satmap stolen off the trike as i was crossing to the iow on the ferry . the satmap had a option of running with 3 aa batterys which i could fast charge in around a hour at a cafe or c ampsite .i have not had enough money to replace the satmap with another one but i have replaced it with a adventure 2800 full gb mapping . it has no provision fo aa cell so i need to find a way of getting it charged .it 5v-900mA`on the back.i would like to charge it off a dynamo but i have no soldering or electronics skills i would be happy to pay for someone to fettle something up for me  . or should i be looking at either soler (in the uk :o ) or something else ?  :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 14 May, 2012, 08:39:42 pm
last month i had my my satmap stolen off the trike as i was crossing to the iow on the ferry . the satmap had a option of running with 3 aa batterys which i could fast charge in around a hour at a cafe or c ampsite .i have not had enough money to replace the satmap with another one but i have replaced it with a adventure 2800 full gb mapping . it has no provision fo aa cell so i need to find a way of getting it charged .it 5v-900mA`on the back.i would like to charge it off a dynamo but i have no soldering or electronics skills i would be happy to pay for someone to fettle something up for me  . or should i be looking at either soler (in the uk :o ) or something else ?  :)

I would look at the something else, I don't think the sun is that good a bet in the UK!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 14 May, 2012, 08:49:49 pm
Forget Solar, unless you have a large array of panels - of a Camping Kind (http://www.premiercamping.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ST145).

For real portability, order of priority should be:

1. A 13amp socket in the pub you stop at, at lunchtime.
2. A 13amp socket in the cafe you stop at, at elevenses/tiffin.
3. Output from a cache battery you've charged in 1, 2, or Hotel/Train
4. Output from a cache battery you charged before you left home
5. Output from a cache battery you've charged on your bike using an E-Werk or equivalent.
6. Output from a cache battery you've charged from a small dynamo hooked up to a hamster in a cage, on a wheel.
7. Solar.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: cycleman on 14 May, 2012, 10:00:37 pm
is 5 easy for a idiot like me to set up . i must add that i am not looking to use a dynamo for powering lights , just for gps charging  ?.
6 looks intresting as well  ;D
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 15 May, 2012, 08:51:36 am
is 5 easy for a idiot like me to set up . i must add that i am not looking to use a dynamo for powering lights , just for gps charging  ?.
6 looks intresting as well  ;D

I would say the answer is yes. (assuming the charging port on your GPS is a USB standard (or mini USB, or Micro USB)
If I can do it (without a soldering iron) then anyone can.
If you are happy with a relatively small cache battery (2200 mAh) then the absolute simplest option would be the pedalpower SIC
http://www.pedalpower.com.au/
Kit includes absolutely everything you need to charge the cache from the mains and from either Shimano or SON dynamos. 
It also includes the wherewithal to "piggyback" the charging function onto a dynamo used for lighting purposes (although rahter untidily IMO)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: cycleman on 15 May, 2012, 08:05:55 pm
it may not work for as i can only run a bottle dynamo on the trike  :'(
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Auntie Helen on 15 May, 2012, 08:29:20 pm
Cycleman, I have a hub dynamo on my trike - although I have discs. Can't remember if you have drums or discs. Mind you, the SON hub was frighteningly expensive!
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 15 May, 2012, 08:54:28 pm
A bottle dynamo should work (I can vouch for the Axa working reasonably well to run a Cyo and a pair of Pixeos on barakta's trike), but performance at low speed is noticeably worse than either my SON Delux or Shimano DH-3N80 hub dynamos.  You really need to be doing over 10mph to get decent power from it.  There's also a voltage limiter built-in, so you get your rated 3W and that's it, regardless of speed (hub dynamos have no limiting, and clever electronics can use the higher voltage to extract more power at high speed).

900mA @5V is 4.5W - more than a dynamo will provide under normal circumstances.  As such, you'll need a cache battery of some sort.

Solar is largely a gimmick, unless you've got a panel about the size of a trike seat.  Doable, but expensive and still only as reliable as the weather. 

I think Chris S sums it up nicely.  Large cache batteries generally win if you can get access to a mains socket every couple of days.  Hamsters are unreliable, have poor energy density, will only run in the wheel when you're not looking, and will chew the wires to the charger.   :)

Personally, I'd approach this problem with a GPS that can take AAs and a couple of sets of spare batteries.   :-\
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: cycleman on 16 May, 2012, 09:16:29 am
just a thought , would it be possable to make up a battery pack of rechargeable battery's with a mini usb to power the gps through its battery ?. chargeing aa's is no problem  :)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 16 May, 2012, 10:49:52 am
There are plenty of products that take this approach; usually they have a built-in recharger, so you just plug them into a mains socket. Then they can be used 'on the road' to recharge one or more devices.

Not a lot of sense in them using AAs (although there are some products that do so).
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Feline on 16 May, 2012, 12:26:13 pm
I actually carry one of the tiny AA packs in case of emergency dynamo charging failure. Because it's tiny, weighs almost nothing empty, and you can just go and buy AA batteries for it. It doesn't have sufficient oomph to both recharge and run my Garmin Edge, but it will keep it running.
I have this one, it cost £5! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PortaPow-AA-USB-Emergency-Battery-Power-Pack-External-Extender-Backup-Charger-/220875465723?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Battery_Chargers&hash=item336d3423fb#ht_1858wt_1393

I should probably mention it is not waterproof (but then neither are the TechNets or Pebbles), so you will need to stick it in a plastic bag and have some way of housing it near your device. I use small frame bags designed for food on my top tube, which you can also stick Harribo in. The ziplock bag for the pack is still needed if it rains though.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 16 May, 2012, 01:55:43 pm
I seemed to have a surfeit of mini USB charging leads around so I just chopped the end off one that was clearly two wire (power only) and connected it up to one of these:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006WNKGP8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
Again, not waterproof, but ziploc bags are fine, and 4x1.2V NiMh AA cells will happily persuade my Garmin Vista that it is running on external power (and hence keep the backlight on) for a good few hours. 
Do make absolutely sure you get the polarity right if you do this.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 16 May, 2012, 02:11:14 pm
*wince*

Only do this with NiMhs!  The output will be on the low end of USB spec and probably won't break anything (though I expect many gadgets will turn up their nose and refuse to charge from it).  If you stick alkalines or lithiums in there, it's going to be above USB spec, and that's how magic smoke escapes.

The proper way to do it is with a 5V regulator.  The simple ones require an input voltage significantly above the output voltage, so you'd need a 6cell holder, but you could get clever with a boost regulator and a pair of cells (a la the commercial product linked by Feline), or whatever.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 16 May, 2012, 03:27:42 pm
*wince*

I knew you'd do that !   
I know it is very much a quick and dirty solution, and only cheap if you don't fry your Garmin in the process.  I'm rigorous about only ever letting NiMhs within a half mile of that piece of bodgery.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: frankly frankie on 16 May, 2012, 04:35:01 pm
10 pages into this thread and some people are still determined to re-invent the wheel ...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 16 May, 2012, 06:04:21 pm
There is of course a certain satisfaction than comes from building your own wheels...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 16 May, 2012, 08:47:10 pm
10 pages into this thread and some people are still determined to re-invent the wheel ...

Guilty as charged.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Biggsy on 17 May, 2012, 09:04:04 am
I know it is very much a quick and dirty solution, and only cheap if you don't fry your Garmin in the process.  I'm rigorous about only ever letting NiMhs within a half mile of that piece of bodgery.

You could with your bodge use use three alkaline or lithium AAs + a dummy cell.  That is if 5.4V isn't smoke-inducing.  (Lithium AAs are 1.8V to begin with; alkalines up to 1.7V).
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 20 May, 2012, 04:03:16 pm
This appears to be new.  A headlight with a USB charger built in.

(http://www3.bike-discount.de/bilder/big/66807/nano-50-plus-steady-auto-led-scheinwerfer.jpg)

Axa Nano Plus (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.axa-nano.com%2F&act=url)

€60 from Germany (http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1004/a70819/nano-50-plus-steady-auto-led-front-light.html?lg=en)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 20 May, 2012, 04:37:20 pm
Ooh, interesting.  Looks like it could be good optically.  Looks like there's a window to the LED for side visibility too.

This makes a lot of sense, as a light with sensors and standlight and whatnot will include most of the electronics needed for a charger already.

Mechanical construction looks a bit interesting, but Axa presumably know what they're doing.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew Br on 20 May, 2012, 05:48:55 pm
That does look good* although I can't (fully) understand the different beam drawings.
Does the shape of it change as the speed increases and more power is available ?
Clever if so.

*ETA; now that I've thought about it for more than a nano second, it's a brilliant idea and, if the light is half-way decent, at 60EUR it's the bargain of the century.
I'm really having to resist becoming an early adoptor since I already have two dyno lights. If this one approached either an E3 or a Philips in light output................

I shall mostly be sitting on my hands for the rest of the evening.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 20 May, 2012, 06:54:10 pm
I'd guess that additional LEDs fire up as speed increases, changing the shape and intensity of the beam. This light has been rumoured for a while.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 20 May, 2012, 08:57:29 pm
*Goes shopping*
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 20 May, 2012, 08:59:51 pm
For Sale. One e-werk. Hardly used...  ::-)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 20 May, 2012, 10:48:31 pm
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.0 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.0)

One of the chaps on the Thorn forum has got one to play with, but hasn't been able to use it extensively yet.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 21 May, 2012, 01:36:47 am
This appears to be new.  A headlight with a USB charger built in.

Thanks for sharing. It looks interesting.  However it appears it can only charge not run say a Garmin Edge 800 or is simply a matter of translation that has me confused?

Regards
Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 21 May, 2012, 09:38:34 am
This appears to be new.  A headlight with a USB charger built in.

Thanks for sharing. It looks interesting.  However it appears it can only charge not run say a Garmin Edge 800 or is simply a matter of translation that has me confused?

Regards
Andrew

Will run a Garmin Edge via a buffer battery tho, presumably??

Looks like a buffer may be required to run GPS etc when it's dark as it looks like you switch between light and USB charge. So presumably no USB charge when the light is on.

Very interested though. May pull the trigger on this. Anyone know if it will run a rear light?

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 21 May, 2012, 10:51:47 am
Anyone know if it will run a rear light?
From the spec, it appears so.
I'll let you know when it gets here.

However it appears it can only charge not run say a Garmin Edge 800 or is simply a matter of translation that has me confused?
I'd say that was a translation issue. What's the difference between 'charge' and 'run'? I think it depends on the nature of your cable- you have to use a charge only cable rather than a data cable.

I plan to use it to charge cache batteries, and then using the cache batteries to charge our devices. We'll want it to run 2 phones and a garmin (although we have etrex which take AAs) for audax.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Auntie Helen on 21 May, 2012, 10:55:52 am
I have looked at the German:

Quote
Wird das Fahrlicht bei Tag nicht benötigt, bietet der NANO Plus Scheinwerfer über den USB-Port die Möglichkeit Handys, Navigationsgeräte und iPods zu laden. Der USB-Anschluss befindet sich im Halter des NANO Plus Scheinwerfers und wird durch eine Abdeckkappe vor Verschmutzung geschützt.

Der Ladevorgang ist bei Geschwindigkeiten ab etwa 10 km/h möglich.
Besondere Einstellungen am Scheinwerfer oder an den zu ladenden Geräten müssen nicht vorgenommen werden. Einfach anschließen und aufladen.
An Auntie Helen reading suggestst that it charges ("laden" used for charging) and looking at my enormous dictionary, 'laden' is always about filling up (loading a ship) or charging rather than running. Mind you, if it talks about charging a phone (Handy) it must assume you are also running the phone at the same time...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 21 May, 2012, 01:34:22 pm
Linguistic confusion aside, like any other dynamo charger it will make some power available (how much will depend on speed and regulator efficiency) and it's up to the device you plug in to decide what to do with it.  Some gadgets (smartphones especially) don't do well if powered by an intermittent or current-limited source - waking up the CPU because there's power available, but not putting a net charge into the battery isn't unknown.  Others will charge just fine.  It's all a bit suck-it-and-see.  A cache battery should solve not-enough-instantaneous-current issues, thobut.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 23 May, 2012, 09:15:01 am
The Axa has arrived today. Seems pretty solidly made. No dire warnings re:USB charging, just advising that it's not watertight. Seems fair.
Yes it can run a rear light.

More reviews as we discover.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Chris S on 23 May, 2012, 11:18:22 am
Does this imply that you can't/shouldn't charge off it when it's wet?

Are there ways of making a non-waterproof USB port, waterproof?
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: mike on 23 May, 2012, 04:38:33 pm
The Axa has arrived today. Seems pretty solidly made. No dire warnings re:USB charging, just advising that it's not watertight. Seems fair.
Yes it can run a rear light.

More reviews as we discover.

mine too, so I fitted it and tried it out...

it works.  At everything > walking pace, my iphone had the little charging symbol.  My GPS was working fine on 'external power' (it already had full battery, so not sure if it was charging or just running) and even my knackered ipod was showing signs of charging.

It feels quite solidly made with a good bracket, the switch feels a little bit flimsy and I dont know how waterproof it'll be, but time will tell!


Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 24 May, 2012, 11:55:22 pm
Has this one been posted before?

http://www.ridermount.com/latest_product_detail.asp?id=1

Looks like a spoke dynamo with integrated LED light / USB charger.  Killer features being that it's trivial to fit/remove and that it has a disengagable clutch...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 25 May, 2012, 01:03:08 am
Has this one been posted before?

http://www.ridermount.com/latest_product_detail.asp?id=1

Looks like a spoke dynamo with integrated LED light / USB charger.  Killer features being that it's trivial to fit/remove and that it has a disengagable clutch...
I am not sure I understand why a "disengagable clutch" is a killer feature. Care to explain? I cannot tell with my SON dynamo if it is engaged or not for example.

The aspect that puts me off this is simply the paucity of information on the website.

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 25 May, 2012, 01:39:12 am
I agree, the frictional losses of an unloaded (a SON or Shimano is permanently engaged, with associated eddy current losses - a hub dynamo with disengagable magnets was discussed in some thread I can't find a while ago) hub dynamo are lost in the noise.  But I also believe that the losses from carrying another 5kg of whatever on your bike are lost in the noise, so I accept that opinions differ greatly on such matters.

It's also fair to say that the idle losses of a spoke dynamo are going to be somewhat higher, on account of the gearbox, so the clutch becomes more useful.


It does smell a bit like vapourwear, though...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 25 May, 2012, 06:37:38 am
Strikes me as a curious device. Not sure about those lights either.

The whole thing looks to me like one of those 'flatters to deceive, sod all use in practice' gadgets you might see in a Sunday supplement mags. Like a motorised tie rail or somesuch.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 25 May, 2012, 09:10:10 am
Strikes me as a curious device. Not sure about those lights either.

The whole thing looks to me like one of those 'flatters to deceive, sod all use in practice' gadgets you might see in a Sunday supplement mags. Like a motorised tie rail or somesuch.

Quoted as 80 Lux for the front so likely to be "bright enough", but overall I'd want to see lots of +ve recommendations on these pages before I bought one.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 25 May, 2012, 09:16:06 am
There used to be a spoke dynamo that garnered good reviews from Chris Juden.  Bit prone to breaking the 'whisker' that engaged with the spokes, so that might be a reason to want to disengage.

A 'be seen' light combined with a charger?  Not bad, really. Although if it really outputs 5V then I can see issues with 'fussy' devices after the power has travelled up a metre of cable and voltage has dropped off a bit.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 25 May, 2012, 02:19:31 pm
Although if it really outputs 5V then I can see issues with 'fussy' devices after the power has travelled up a metre of cable and voltage has dropped off a bit.

If the cable meets the USB standards, this shouldn't be a problem.  It's entirely normal to have a metre or two of cable between a USB port and a device, after all.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 25 May, 2012, 02:25:50 pm
'fussy' USB devices don't cope well with longer cables, for this reason.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 25 May, 2012, 02:32:54 pm
Not a problem I've encountered.  Unless that's the reason why the retractable USB cable[1] I have won't charge Motorola phones, I suppose.  I assumed it was because it wasn't connecting the data pins, but it might be that the conductors are unreasonably thin... :/

Bloody people playing fast and loose with standards.   >:(


[1] Swapped for my normal USB cable so andygates could charge his Motorola phone on his LEJOG.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: JonBuoy on 25 May, 2012, 06:17:52 pm
Strikes me as a curious device. Not sure about those lights either.

The whole thing looks to me like one of those 'flatters to deceive, sod all use in practice' gadgets you might see in a Sunday supplement mags. Like a motorised tie rail or somesuch.

Quoted as 80 Lux for the front so likely to be "bright enough", but overall I'd want to see lots of +ve recommendations on these pages before I bought one.

You could ask this guy (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tigra-Bikecharge-Bike-Light-Usb-Generator-/270982514902?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item3f17d108d6#ht_798wt_1185) why he is selling his.

Not sure you would get an honest answer though.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrew_s on 25 May, 2012, 07:57:12 pm
a hub dynamo with disengagable magnets was discussed in some thread I can't find a while ago
Shutter Precision 7-series dynohub (review (http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/dynamos/SP_6/index_en.html)), marketed as own brand by Supernova & Velo Orange (and probably others).
If you search "shutter precision", there are a couple of threads that don't say much.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 27 May, 2012, 02:13:03 pm
A couple of beamshots from a similar Axa headlamp.

http://www.fietsersbond.nl/de-fiets/onderdelen/verlichting/krachtige-koplampen-test-2011/axa-nano-steady-auto (http://www.fietsersbond.nl/de-fiets/onderdelen/verlichting/krachtige-koplampen-test-2011/axa-nano-steady-auto)

(http://media.fietsersbond.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/testkees/axa_nano_2sec.jpg)

(http://media.fietsersbond.nl.s3.amazonaws.com/testkees/axa_nano_05sec.jpg)

Text translates as
"Axa since 2011 also comes with a headlight on the market that is comparable to the IQ Fly Busch + Müller. The light spot is about as good as the IQ Fly.
Striking thing is that there is much light shines upwards that is also bright in your eyes shining"

 

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 27 May, 2012, 02:31:56 pm
We tested ours on Friday evening. Not having any steep, gravelly, potholed lanes  round here we made do with a round the block trip. Seems fine, certainly not measurably worse than the cyo that preceded it. We failed to ride slowly to change the beam pattern, that I noticed, despite making Chris duck down so I could have a looksee over his shoulder.
Saturday's 100k was a test for the charging aspect, and 2 hours/50km was sufficient to fully charge Mr Smith's 5000mAh battery.
 :thumbsup: so far.

It's hasn't even remotely looked like rain this weekend though, so that's all fair hot weather testing.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 27 May, 2012, 10:25:12 pm
From rualexander on the Thorn forum:

"I've now done a couple of rides testing out my Nano Plus charging system.
Two and a half hours test last week at an average speed of 13.5 km/h (hilly route) put 40% charge into my Motorola Defy phone which was switched on but not using any apps.
One and three quarters hours test today at an average speed of 19km/h (less hilly route) put 30% charge into the phone.
Off to Ireland for three weeks tomorrow, so will give it a good test and report back when I return."

I can see one of these appearing on my next Visa bill.  Got to rebuild a front wheel first though.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 28 May, 2012, 12:58:52 am
That sounds about right.  I'll reitrate the advice to use a cache battery, especially in hilly terrain, as it's easy to provide enough power to wake up the phone but not give it enough to charge with when moving slowly.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 28 June, 2012, 01:58:21 pm
From rualexander on the Thorn forum: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.msg20464#msg20464 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.msg20464#msg20464)

"I've now had the Nano Plus light for a while now and have been able to test its charging abilities fairly well.
It kept my phone charged no problem during my 3 weeks in Ireland, cycling about 4 hours per day on average, I would say an hour of cycling put about 20% charge into the phone with the phone switched on but nothing running.
I was able to continue charging in wet weather (the instructions advise against it) by placing a ziplock bag over the light and usb cable connection and securing it with an elastic band.

Last sunday, over a 3 hour ride at an average speed of 17.3km/h, with phone gps on, screen on permanently, and running a mapping app, the Nano was able to maintain my phone's charge at the same level throughout the ride, and in fact, due to a fast last few miles, the ride ended with the phone battery 10% higher charge than at the start.

As for the light output, I still haven't really been able to assess it, although I did run it with the light on one day when it was wet and dull and on busy roads. I could feel the difference in drag with the light on and freewheeling but couldn't really feel any difference when actually pedalling, when in usb mode I was never able to feel any difference in drag between charging and off. "
 
 
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: marcusjb on 01 July, 2012, 09:25:02 am
Just coming back to this after riding the Mille Alba 1000. I use an E-Werk and a cache battery (i can't remember the exact model, but a portapow of some kind) and didn't have a single issue with keeping my GPS going for 60 hours or whatever of actual time on the road.

I had issues with the setup on PBP, but this is mainly because I started with a not full cache battery and a flat iPhone.

Even plugged into a wall socket with a proper power supply, the battery pack takes over 12 hours to charge. So, connected to an e-werk, it must take even longer to fully charge with stopping and starting etc.

But, it was perfect for the GPS.

Whe I think things start to fall over very quickly is phones, particularly smart phones. Those things take a lot of charging and this is what messed me up on PBP.

This time, I modified my behaviour slightly.  I always ran the phone in airplane mode, made sure I shut down apps I wasn't using (particularly twitter which seems to each the battery) and the battery pack was hardly needed for phone charging at all.

E-werk definitely works very well, but the time it takes to charge the battery packs is a challenge and certainly more suited to audax style riding (stints of 3 hours non-stop) rather than touring stop/start riding.

I know I could connect the gps straight to the e-werk, and one of the e-werk's advantage is a solid output, but I am still not sure I trust a £300 gps to it!

With a little bit of behaviour modification, and occasional use of cafe power points etc., I could easily keep gps and phone going on long audaxes. I would like to try it touring, but that would involve a tandem specific dynohub wheel, which is a bit out of budget for the moment. We'll have to hope Spanish cafes will loan us some electricity on our next tour.
Title: Re: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 01 July, 2012, 12:33:42 pm

As for the light output, I still haven't really been able to assess it, although I did run it with the light on one day when it was wet and dull and on busy roads. I could feel the difference in drag with the light on and freewheeling but couldn't really feel any difference when actually pedalling, when in usb mode I was never able to feel any difference in drag between charging and off.
 
Ours is on the tandem, so will "feel" a bit different, but as a light it is at least as good as the cyo it replaces, possibly better as the beam pattern gives a more useful spread.
It's charging prowess is excellent, at least as good as the e-work, better than my dahon, not least because of it's straightforwardness.
Title: Re: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Andrew on 01 July, 2012, 01:38:42 pm
It's charging prowess is excellent, at least as good as the e-work, better than my dahon, not least because of it's straightforwardness.

Must admit, it's that factor that appeals to me. If I hadn't just bought a Dahon charger and have a perfectly functioning cyo (touch wood) then I reckon it'd be my next purchase.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: andrewc on 30 August, 2012, 02:32:20 pm
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4557.msg22387;topicseen#msg22387 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4557.msg22387;topicseen#msg22387)

It looks like B&M will shortly be offering a new light with built in USB charger.
Title: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: PeeJay on 30 August, 2012, 03:15:30 pm
Wow, that looks really good.  Seems it has a small internal battery to smooth the usb output & provide a floodlight for dark downhills.   I'm in the market for a new lamp,  I think I'm gonna hang on till this one is launched.

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 30 August, 2012, 03:41:26 pm
Yeah, USB output aside, it looks like it could be a really good lamp.  Best of both 'R' and 'non-R' beam shapes, and then some.

As a darksider I welcome the handlebar-mounted control.  The cable won't be long enough, of course, but that's less hacking than adding a remote control from scratch.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 26 September, 2012, 04:29:32 am
Update on my experience with a PedalPower+ Super-i-Cable (my owner review can be found here) (http://aushiker.com/pedalpower-super-i-cable/).

I have recently completed a 40 day bicycle tour into the outback regions of Western Australia, my "Chasing the dirt" tour into the Gascoyne (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/dreaming_tour).  It had been my intention to use the PedalPower+ Super-i-Cable to power or recharge my electronic devices (Garmin Edge 800, Apple iPad 2 (http://aushiker.com/ipad/), Apple iPod Shuffle, Samsun Galaxy S2 phone, Olympus XZ-1 camera).  Unfortunately during the tour, in fact early in the tour, I started having problems with the output cable on the Super-i-Cable which was having internmittmant connection problems with what ever was plugged in for charging. After a bit of testing I came to the conclusion that the problem was at the connection end of the cable. It seems that the wiring connection was not robust. Unfortunately my continued having to wriggle the connection no doubt made it worse.  In the end I tried a couple of means of getting at least a reasonably reliable connection to the Garmin Edge 800. You can see my attempts from the photo. The first was to use a tent repair pole tube. That last a couple of days. I then used some tie wire wrapped around the cable and taped over to try and create a connection that was reonsably rigided. This worked reasonably well, but did require a wiggle ever now and then.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2EHNLj0BbcE/UGJwICdYI_I/AAAAAAAAEE4/LFF44snGDjU/s1019/P9020565.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cRKc6KEyVmk/UGJw5rG7FZI/AAAAAAAAEFE/PERGm6-q1Vs/s764/P9210776.JPG)

However all this meant that I could only use the PedalPower+ Super-i-Cable to charge the Garmin Edge 800 as this was the only electronic device that used a normal USB connection. I didn't want to have to try and get a connection each time I  wanted to charge a device.

So for me I am regretfully now of the view that the PedalPower+ Super-i-Cable is simply not robust enough to handle life on a touring bicycle and will be looking to replace it in due course with probably an Busch & Mueller E-werk. 

I have contacted Nick at PedalPower+ for his thoughts. WIll update when I get a reply.

Regards
Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Somnolent on 27 September, 2012, 10:36:54 am
Thanks for posting that Aushiker.  Worth knowing of the risk, and be interesting to see what Pedalpower say about it.
Especially as I've almost finished practising my (lack of) sewing skills to produce a dedicated bag for mine that will sit on top of the recently fitted aero bars aft of where I grip them, and mostly below handlebar level.   Pics to follow in the Reader's Bodges section...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 28 September, 2012, 02:38:21 am
(http://www.bike2power.com/components/com_aceshop/opencart/image/cache/data/lightcharge/02_Light-charge-228x228.jpg)

Another option has popped up on my radar, the LightCharge Hub Dynamo Bicycle USB Charger (http://www.bike2power.com/lightcharge-bicycle-hub-usb-charger.html). There is also a bit of a review at the Bicycles Network Australia (http://www.bicycles.net.au/2012/09/lightcharge-hub-dynamo-powered-bicycle-usb-charger/)

I am thinking this might be a good option for the likes of Audax rides and at a reasonable price. For me the lack of battery kills it as a touring option.

Andrew

Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 01 October, 2012, 03:47:36 am
Thanks for posting that Aushiker.  Worth knowing of the risk, and be interesting to see what Pedalpower say about it.

Received an email this morning. Replacement forth coming. No further comment as to the issue but :(

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Aushiker on 06 October, 2012, 11:05:12 am
For those interested in the PedalPower+ Super-i-Cable it seems that Chain Reaction Cycles are now selling a rebadged version called the NC-17 iPhone Hub charger (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=61048) 2012 for $127.00.

(http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/Full/61048.jpg)

Andrew
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bobb on 22 October, 2012, 06:59:50 pm
So..... What with all these new lights with USB outputs, does that mean that the  E-Werk, PedalPower etc are now redundant? ie all you need is hub dynamo + light with USB + cache battery and you're good to go? Or is there more to it than that?
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: L CC on 22 October, 2012, 07:02:14 pm
Got it in one, bobb.
Or rather, got it in one device.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bobb on 22 October, 2012, 07:31:09 pm
Excellent. That should save a few pennies. Ta.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: interested on 23 October, 2012, 04:20:00 am
So..... What with all these new lights with USB outputs, does that mean that the  E-Werk, PedalPower etc are now redundant? ie all you need is hub dynamo + light with USB + cache battery and you're good to go? Or is there more to it than that?

Some of the cheaper Light+USB charge combos doesn't allow charging and running the light at the same time. Having a USB plug directly in the main lamp like some do, may lead to problems if used in rain. So it is useful to check the light/USB charger combos feature list before buying. The E-Werk can adjust the voltage and power output, and I don't think any light & USB charger combos have anything near the flexibility of the E-Werk, so it isn't superseded by the newer combo-designs . Of course, not everybody needs that flexibility.

According to the measurements I have seen in the German magazine "Fahrradzukunft", nothing comes close to the efficiency and versatility of the B&M E-Werk, the electronics are simply very well designed. The not-so-good dynamo chargers are rather inefficient when in use or has a high drag even when not in use, some chargers have "cooked off" when descending at high speed, while e.g. the E-Werk has been tested by the magazine at  85 km/h without problems. Some USB chargers are limited to around 500 mA (USB standard) while others can deliver more current if needed.

All in all, dynamo USB chargers are not alike, their design (waterproof, features) and electronics (efficiency, ruggedness, power output) can make a big difference. I guess that the B&M Luxos "U" model tick most boxes for most people since B&M also designed the excellent E-Werk, but its actual design has yet to be tested.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bobb on 23 October, 2012, 10:30:21 am
Thanks! Certainly some points in there worth considering...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bobb on 27 March, 2013, 04:44:48 pm
Right.... So with the E-Work, I notice there is a "Charger USB-Werk".

In fact, looky:

(http://www.zaribor.co.uk/raz/pics/ewerk.png)

So the B + M Busch + Müller charger USB-Werk  (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-busch--mueller-charger-usb-werk/aid:639422) has a built in cache battery and costs £68 quid.

The B + M power supply and charger E-Werk (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-power-supply-and-charger-e-werk/aid:399590) doesn't have a cache battery - so you'd have to get one/use an existing one and costs £102

What's going on? What does the 102 quid E-Werk do that the 68 quid one doesn't?

I just want to be able to charge my phone on tour, so the USB-Werk would do the trick, no? I just don't get the massive price difference?

(http://www.zaribor.co.uk/raz/pics/shrug.gif)
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 27 March, 2013, 04:53:15 pm
What's going on? What does the 102 quid E-Werk do that the 68 quid one doesn't?

Outputs at other than 5V.
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bobb on 27 March, 2013, 05:03:11 pm
Ah, I see. But that's OK for a phone though, right?
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 27 March, 2013, 05:16:41 pm
Should be fine (assuming it's a modern USB powered phone, rather than a vintage Nokia or something).
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: bobb on 27 March, 2013, 05:21:17 pm
Yeah, Smart phone. So basically, the USB-Werk isn't as versatile, but if all you want to do is charge stuff that can be charged via USB it's a cheaper option? I can't see myself ever wanting a dynamo on my tourer for anything other than charging my phone. Not even bothered about lights. I've never ridden at night when touring and I don't intend to either...
Title: Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
Post by: Kim on 27 March, 2013, 06:15:43 pm
Exactly.  The E-Werk has been around for a while now, before phones and similar had properly standardised on USB charging.  There are also B&M battery lights that need the higher voltages in order to charge (including the Ixon IQ, which can rather usefully charge standard AA NiMHs).

The E-Werk comes with an assortment of cables and adaptors, which the USB-Werk presumably doesn't.