Value for money in the Audax world

[grams]

Is your goal here to shame X-rated event organisers into not bothering any more? I can't see what other outcome this line of attack is likely to achieve.

[whosatthewheel]

Is your goal here to shame X-rated event organisers into not bothering any more? I can't see what other outcome this line of attack is likely to achieve.

Not really... I was just trying to understand if I am missing something... some cost that I had not factored in. I suspect the majority of surplus is directed towards Pro-bono activities (charity, club, grass root cycling, future events, whatever), but that is not always advertised on the event page.

[LiamFitz]

I don't think you are missing something specific - If you have set a price assuming a mimimum number of entries than that's what it costs. You will struggle to put your finger on any set items which all add up.

Personally, I'm running a Bare Bones 400 at the end of May for £7 and I'm looking forward to tucking into a Fortnum's hamper and a case of Bollinger on the proceeds. I might also buy some Le Col bib shorts and give a free beer to the first rider back.

[whosatthewheel]

I might also buy some Le Col bib shorts and give a free beer to the first rider back.

 

[jiberjaber]

Is your goal here to shame X-rated event organisers into not bothering any more? I can't see what other outcome this line of attack is likely to achieve.

Not really... I was just trying to understand if I am missing something... some cost that I had not factored in. I suspect the majority of surplus is directed towards Pro-bono activities (charity, club, grass root cycling, future events, whatever), but that is not always advertised on the event page.

You probably need to consider cash flow as well as costs.  A buffer de-risks some of the up front cost commitments they need to make in organising their other more involved events.

[Rod Marton]

As an occasional organiser I would never cost my time and my aim was simply not to make a loss. My events were priced accordingly. Any excess went to club funds and to subsiding the cake. As an occasional participant I'm not going to complain if the organiser does pocket the excess, organisers do a lot of work and if they want some reimbursement for it, that's fine by me: entry fee is hardly my major expenditure at an event.

[whosatthewheel]

entry fee is hardly my major expenditure at an event.

True, although when there is food on offer for the entry fee, I end up spending a lot less on the day... 

[bairn again]

One other point that ive learned in the 10 or so years that ive been an organiser is that a very low entry fee will almost certainly drive up the number of DNS riders so any event - egardless of its costs - is better having an entry set at the minimum level to discourage frivolous entries....and £6 is probably about the level that folk will stop before thinking if they are really serious or not (*)

That's a good point actually... is there any evidence of that being the case though?

my experience of the events ive organised is a big Yes. 

[jimmea]

If an org has funds left over from an event then surely they must be given to AUK? After all it is run by them. All funds could then be put to good use, such as a new website....

[mattc]

How about a big bucket at every control? labelled

"Contribute to the new website!"

[telstarbox]

If an org has funds left over from an event then surely they must be given to AUK? After all it is run by them. All funds could then be put to good use, such as a new website....

AUK coordinates events but doesn't run them - they are run by clubs or individuals.

[FifeingEejit]

If an org has funds left over from an event then surely they must be given to AUK? After all it is run by them. All funds could then be put to good use, such as a new website....

Aren't they run by the organizer under AUKs jurisdiction?
Sports "Governing bodies" tend not to actually run anything...

[Tull924]

If an org has funds left over from an event then surely they must be given to AUK?

Really?

After all it is run by them.

Except it isn't. AUK run the validation side of it. Without organisers running events for them there would be nothing to validate (an subsequently no AUK)


People need to stop thinking of audax organisers as volunteeers as they are not.

Audax UK has no policy on catering at events
Audax UK has no policy on pricing.
Organisers can charge what they want and provide what they want.
You can choose to ride an event or not.
You can choose to organise an event or not.
You can choose to moan about £6 or not

Simples

[Ian H]

ACP does say that BRMs should not be run commercially and gives some guidance on pricing.

[LiamFitz]

If an org has funds left over from an event then surely they must be given to AUK? After all it is run by them. All funds could then be put to good use, such as a new website....

OOOh you little tinker...

[Cudzoziemiec]

Seems fine to me given the amount of faff involved in putting an event on.

It is silly how vague most events are about catering - some of them put loads of effort in and make no mention of it in the description, so I usually assume there'll be none.

I agree... there might be an element of not wanting to commit until the numbers are certain.

That said, I have done a few events where I got nothing more than validation for 6 pounds and given they were BP, even validation was of not much use... given a Perm or DIY costs half of that, I wonder where the rest of the money has gone. If there are 20 riders on the line, I don't mind, but when there are 100, I really really would like to know where the money has gone.

You got the event itself.

[Paul H]

For those run on behalf of CTC Groups any surplus usually goes into the groups kitty, they may use it to fund other activities, Audax among them, or they may just get the pile of cash out once a year to count.  I don't really care, the entrance fee is rarely the largest part of the cost and the level of enjoyment isn't related to either. 

[dat]

For those run on behalf of CTC Groups any surplus usually goes into the groups kitty, they may use it to fund other activities, Audax among them, or they may just get the pile of cash out once a year to count.  I don't really care, the entrance fee is rarely the largest part of the cost and the level of enjoyment isn't related to either.

If a CTC group runs it won't what happens with the money be strictly controlled by the charity commission?

[whosatthewheel]

I don't really care, the entrance fee is rarely the largest part of the cost and the level of enjoyment isn't related to either.

Looking back over the past 3 years, the events I enjoyed the most were also the most expensive... the best Audax I remember was Undulates' National 400, where we were treated like Royalties and the route was magnificent... 37 pounds or so of entry fee + another 7 for the dinner the night before... 

I don't remember much of said 6 quid no frills events... other than one I didn't even get validated as I couldn't find the infos and in frustration I decided to skip a control as well... saved a bit of money there

[whosatthewheel]

If an org has funds left over from an event then surely they must be given to AUK? After all it is run by them. All funds could then be put to good use, such as a new website....

If AUK was covering for loss making events, then there would be a case for reaping the rewards for profit making events... but that's not the case.

The new website would be a good reason to keep the surplus well away from AUK, I should add... 

[BlackSheep]

Just nipping out for some more popcorn .

[BlackSheep]

                                                                                                                                           

[Tull924]

ACP does say that BRMs should not be run commercially and gives some guidance on pricing.

Audax UK doesn't (AFAIK) and that is the topic of this thread

[whosatthewheel]

You probably need to consider cash flow as well as costs.  A buffer de-risks some of the up front cost commitments they need to make in organising their other more involved events.

Here's the thing... let's say the organiser has a car park start and a cafe' finish to stay warm waiting for finishers... nothing is included in the 6 quid fee. On the day, it turns out there are 60 brevet cards waiting to be picked up, for a total of 342 quid after paypal and 222 quid surplus, assuming they all finish and validate. Once he's paid for 6 cups of tea for himself and lunch and a slice of cake, there's 200 quid left on the table...

Would you rather ask the cafe' owner if they can give all finishers a hot drink and beans on toast or put the money away for a rainy day?

I'd do the former to be honest and was a bit disappointed to see others didn't

[BlackSheep]

ACP does say that BRMs should not be run commercially and gives some guidance on pricing.

Audax UK doesn't (AFAIK) and that is the topic of this thread

A good job AUK doesn't stipulate that periodically organisers  run events under BRM rules then .