[HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?

[Justin(e)]

His initial tests - taken back in October and November - had shown serious organ stress from high levels of muscle breakdown and an overly sugar-based diet, which was hindering his post-ride recovery.

This is stating the obvious.  Of course there has been serious organ stress.  Nearly every PBP rider would show some signs of serious organ stress.

Which organs?  What sort of stress?  Any long term damage?  Any long term benefit?  What is the prognosis?  There is nowhere  near enough information here for any person to decide to "throw in the towel" based on this.  This challenge is as much about mind as it is about body.  Looking at the media posts, Steve seems as stoical and positive as always.  Allez Steve.

[jochta]

Steve will make a sensible decision.  He's hard core but not stupid.

I hope so. Continuing to ride to possible long term health issues for a futile cause is stupid IMO.

That FB post is concerning as it clearly suggests he is going to continue. Riding on public roads in such a fatigued state is a serious cause for concern.

But we're just armchair experts, we're not there in Steve's head. All we can do is interpret the snippets of information we are given and the data we see.

[Freya]

This is stating the obvious.  Of course there has been serious organ stress.  Nearly every PBP rider would show some signs of serious organ stress.

If it is that bleedin' obvious then why bother having the tests and then acting on the results?
You have to assume that this is not 'normal' even for someone undertaking  extreme exercise, otherwise it would not have led to the medical intervention that has taken place.

[Greenbank]

One of the oddest things is that we have no real idea whether tomorrow (or Friday) will bring a post along the lines of:

"After much deliberation I've decided to stop at the end of my initial year attempt..."

or

"A new concurrent attempt starts today 1st January 2016!"

[αdαmsκι]

"A new concurrent attempt starts today 1st January 2016!"

Oh dear God. I really hope that isn't the case.

IMO it is time for this.

[mattc]

I'm sure everyone here wishes the Steve the best, and that there is genuine concern for his welfare. And personally, if he is still aiming to better Tommy's total, I think the task in the next six months is now too great for any current cyclist to achieve. December 31st would be an ideal point to pause and recover.

But there does seem to be some selective interpretation of what is partial information from the FB post. 'Organ stress' does sound alarming, but the post says that he had 'medical tests' just last week which showed improvement. It also suggests that his old high-sugar diet was part of the problem. In that light, the change in diet that so many here have been critical of, was in his best interests healthwise, even if that resulted in a performance hit.

We may be sceptical about GPs' ability to understand endurance athletes, but I'd put more faith in the specialists he has seen than remote diagnosis via internet forum.

Agree with every word.   

jo's last para is considerably more rational than the numerous following posts attempting to refute it.

[TimC]

Whilst the individual support is no doubt helpful, the next attempt may be a different order of magnitude (particularly if he employs an "attending" support crew) and it may be done without the backing of as many commercial sponsors given Steve will have a record of trying and, for want of a better word, failing.  It is also questionable whether the current sponsors will feel they have got a good return on their investment, at least a good enough return to provide similar levels of support in the future.

Lack of commercial backing might be particularly important.  For example, if he can't get the backing of a bike supplier and has to supply them out of his own funds.  In other words, there could be a need for up front capital expenditure, not just operating costs.

I don't imagine this is an easy decision for Steve.  It is full of uncertainty and might end up with him never being able to launch a new attempt.

None of that is a good reason for carrying on a task that is now not possible to complete successfully.

[Ham]

For all that "Team Steve" have obviously put in a lot of time and effort, viewed from the outside and judged by their interaction with the wider world they are at best amateurish and at worst dangerous and THEY NEED to realise it. Their failure to do so may have repercussions way beyond the practical aspects of the record attempt and directly impinge on Steve's long term health and wellbeing. None of the news management, health management, media management that they are responsible for shows any of the leadership I would expect to see in what - for want of a better term - I would expect in a professional team (those are the only aspects that we can see).

I do hope that they come to realise it and stand themselves down before it is too late. Steve isn't the one that has ***** up, he has put his heart and soul into the effort. They have, by taking on the role, falling short of what is needed and not realising it soon enough to bring in people that know what they are doing.

[rafletcher]

Steve will make a sensible decision.  He's hard core but not stupid.

But he may be ill/un informed. His original diet - which he presumably had followed on other long rides - was clearly not right for this effort. The professional advice should have been sought before the attempt.

I'm in awe of what he has achieved, but I too feel he should stop tomorrow, and regroup.

[mattc]

For all that "Team Steve" have obviously put in a lot of time and effort, viewed from the outside and judged by their interaction with the wider world they are at best amateurish and at worst dangerous and THEY NEED to realise it. Their failure to do so may have repercussions way beyond the practical aspects of the record attempt and directly impinge on Steve's long term health and wellbeing. None of the news management, health management, media management that they are responsible for shows any of the leadership I would expect to see in what - for want of a better term - I would expect in a professional team (those are the only aspects that we can see).

Are you saying they have put his health at risk? That they are responsible for his "health management"?

I think that's a bit strong; it was Steve that saw the doctor(s). Is there a doctor on the team? It wouldnt surprise me if Steve was just one-to-one with the medics, and noone was waiting outside to put him back on the bike.

[TimC]

You're probably right, Matt, but it's surely part of the responsibility of anyone who regards themselves as part of Steve's team to be mindful of his health, and to provide some degree of oversight which he himself may not be fully able to do. The impression I have, which may well be wrong, is that Hoppo and Idai have taken on the roles of coach, cheerleader and nutritionist, and therefore they must also take responsibility for advising Steve in his own interest, and not the interest of the task - which is now impossible anyway.

[Ham]

For all that "Team Steve" have obviously put in a lot of time and effort, viewed from the outside and judged by their interaction with the wider world they are at best amateurish and at worst dangerous and THEY NEED to realise it. Their failure to do so may have repercussions way beyond the practical aspects of the record attempt and directly impinge on Steve's long term health and wellbeing. None of the news management, health management, media management that they are responsible for shows any of the leadership I would expect to see in what - for want of a better term - I would expect in a professional team (those are the only aspects that we can see).

Are you saying they have put his health at risk? That they are responsible for his "health management"?

I think that's a bit strong; it was Steve that saw the doctor(s). Is there a doctor on the team? It wouldnt surprise me if Steve was just one-to-one with the medics, and noone was waiting outside to put him back on the bike.

Actually, no.

What I am saying is that assessing their performance on those things I might have been able to there is no indication of (again for want of a better word) professional competence. That is not in itself a criticism, as they are volunteers doing what they can. BUT THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

[Martin]

For better or worse Steve is likely to continue into 2016 (and TBH his health issues don't seem any worse than Kurt's who has been allowed to continue after medical advice)

there's not a lot any of us can do to stop this, there is after all enough apparently dosh in the kitty for Steve to ride as long as he likes (and I just checked 2016 AUK online entries still have the £1 donation option) and the charity fundraiser option seems to have been sidestepped

I'll personally be stepping away from watching the whole challenge once Kurt has his hard earned and well deserved
WORLD RECORD!!!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yes, Steve probably has enough money to allow him to keep riding until he is on his knees, with Hoppo cheering him all the way down. He won't get the record doing it that way though.

[mattc]

For all that "Team Steve" have obviously put in a lot of time and effort, viewed from the outside and judged by their interaction with the wider world they are at best amateurish and at worst dangerous and THEY NEED to realise it. Their failure to do so may have repercussions way beyond the practical aspects of the record attempt and directly impinge on Steve's long term health and wellbeing. None of the news management, health management, media management that they are responsible for shows any of the leadership I would expect to see in what - for want of a better term - I would expect in a professional team (those are the only aspects that we can see).

Are you saying they have put his health at risk? That they are responsible for his "health management"?

I think that's a bit strong; it was Steve that saw the doctor(s). Is there a doctor on the team? It wouldnt surprise me if Steve was just one-to-one with the medics, and noone was waiting outside to put him back on the bike.

Actually, no.

What I am saying is that assessing their performance on those things I might have been able to there is no indication of (again for want of a better word) professional competence. That is not in itself a criticism, as they are volunteers doing what they can. BUT THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

OK cool. I actually think that a support team without medical qualifications would be acting _more_ professionally to leave such matters to Steve and the doctors, than to stick their oars in.

I'll stay away from discussing the other roles of the team for now, apart from agreeing with you that they are indeed volunteers ...

[Wobbly]

Am, as usual, vaguely depressed at the personal sniping by the usual posters on here

[TimC]

Am, as usual, vaguely depressed at the personal sniping by the usual posters on here

I'm sorry if you feel I'm one of those, Wobbly, but I'm afraid I feel quite strongly that - on the evidence we have - Steve is not being well advised, and that it could end badly for him. Of course, we are each responsible for ourselves and, children and aged relatives aside, no-one else, so it's perhaps stepping outside my business to say anything at all, but this is a discussion forum and this board is about the conduct of the record attempts.

It is, of course, up to Steve what he does with and to himself. If, despite the evidence that the record's impossible, he decides to continue through to August, then so be it. If he does indeed continue, I think I'll probably retire from observing and commenting on his progress, as there would seem little point in it.

[Ham]

OK cool. I actually think that a support team without medical qualifications would be acting _more_ professionally to leave such matters to Steve and the doctors, than to stick their oars in.

I'll stay away from discussing the other roles of the team for now, apart from agreeing with you that they are indeed volunteers ...

Indeed, I'm carrying on more for the benefit of any team members reading than any disagreement with you.

The most challenging aspect of leadership, whether it is team leadership or senior management, is recognising what skills are lacking in a team and how to compensate for that lack.

For example.

We have been shown the picture of Steve waiting in a GP's surgery. Had I been involved with the team I would have argued strongly for getting a respected specialist involved at every stage (ffs - Team Sky don't visit their GP, do they?) and I would have used the funds to pay if needed. The visit would have been at Steve's convenience - location could be almost anywhere in the whole bloody country. If it needed to be paid for, so be it. If it needed more dosh, I would have asked for it from people (and swapping hats here, I would have anted up as would many here).

And if they didn't have the time to arrange stuff like that, then they should again have bought borrowed or begged the resource to spend that time.

[Jaded]

It is so easy to climb out the woodwork on day 364 and say how the team should be organised.

As far as I am concerned, Steve has ridden the 4th longest distance ever on some exceptionally challenging roads in some exceptionally challenging conditions with an exceptionally challenging injury. Bravo!

[TimC]

It is so easy to climb out the woodwork on day 364 and say how the team should be organised.

As far as I am concerned, Steve has ridden the 4th longest distance ever on some exceptionally challenging roads in some exceptionally challenging conditions with an exceptionally challenging injury. Bravo!

I think concerns had been raised rather earlier than Day 364! But you're absolutely right about Steve's achievements. The question is, where does he go from here?

[PAC]

OK cool. I actually think that a support team without medical qualifications would be acting _more_ professionally to leave such matters to Steve and the doctors, than to stick their oars in.

I'll stay away from discussing the other roles of the team for now, apart from agreeing with you that they are indeed volunteers ...

Indeed, I'm carrying on more for the benefit of any team members reading than any disagreement with you.

The most challenging aspect of leadership, whether it is team leadership or senior management, is recognising what skills are lacking in a team and how to compensate for that lack.

For example.

We have been shown the picture of Steve waiting in a GP's surgery. Had I been involved with the team I would have argued strongly for getting a respected specialist involved at every stage (ffs - Team Sky don't visit their GP, do they?) and I would have used the funds to pay if needed. The visit would have been at Steve's convenience - location could be almost anywhere in the whole bloody country. If it needed to be paid for, so be it. If it needed more dosh, I would have asked for it from people (and swapping hats here, I would have anted up as would many here).

And if they didn't have the time to arrange stuff like that, then they should again have bought borrowed or begged the resource to spend that time.

I think it was a BMI clinic, rather than a bog standard GP's surgery....

[Ham]

It is so easy to climb out the woodwork on day 364 and say how the team should be organised.

As far as I am concerned, Steve has ridden the 4th longest distance ever on some exceptionally challenging roads in some exceptionally challenging conditions with an exceptionally challenging injury. Bravo!

And it's pretty easy to make snide remarks when you get so much training.

I've been solidly behind Steve and I'm one of the many to support him practically over  the months. I've avoided criticising any of his tactics and kept my opinions of his team (which frankly have developed over those 365 days) under wraps.

There is a time to be upfront though, and I think this is it.

[Ham]

OK cool. I actually think that a support team without medical qualifications would be acting _more_ professionally to leave such matters to Steve and the doctors, than to stick their oars in.

I'll stay away from discussing the other roles of the team for now, apart from agreeing with you that they are indeed volunteers ...

Indeed, I'm carrying on more for the benefit of any team members reading than any disagreement with you.

The most challenging aspect of leadership, whether it is team leadership or senior management, is recognising what skills are lacking in a team and how to compensate for that lack.

For example.

We have been shown the picture of Steve waiting in a GP's surgery. Had I been involved with the team I would have argued strongly for getting a respected specialist involved at every stage (ffs - Team Sky don't visit their GP, do they?) and I would have used the funds to pay if needed. The visit would have been at Steve's convenience - location could be almost anywhere in the whole bloody country. If it needed to be paid for, so be it. If it needed more dosh, I would have asked for it from people (and swapping hats here, I would have anted up as would many here).

And if they didn't have the time to arrange stuff like that, then they should again have bought borrowed or begged the resource to spend that time.

I think it was a BMI clinic, rather than a bog standard GP's surgery....

https://www.facebook.com/stevenabraham2015/photos/a.1523448711237093.1073741830.1520678421514122/1651470028434960/?type=3&theater

(Gastroenterologist some time afterwards)

[IJL]

I find the term  "organ stress" rather odd, hopefully it's a bit mis-translation from Dr speak by whoever made the Facebook post.  In 20+years in health care its a term I've never heard used and its rings quackery rather than medicine.  Indeed a quick google of the term brings up a mix of cellular biology (which is not appropriate to the circumstances) and some of the more eccentric alternative therapies.

I'm sure exhaustion is an issue but organ stress?

[PAC]

I find the term  "organ stress" rather odd, hopefully it's a bit mis-translation from Dr speak by whoever made the Facebook post.  In 20+years in health care its a term I've never heard used and its rings quackery rather than medicine.  Indeed a quick google of the term brings up a mix of cellular biology (which is not appropriate to the circumstances) and some of the more eccentric alternative therapies.

I'm sure exhaustion is an issue but organ stress?

The digestive system is an organ, which is what he seems to have had trouble with...I think the FB post needs to give a bit more clarity, because it might've been stated as serious because it required dietary change rather than a couple of Rennie!