Author Topic: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?  (Read 260309 times)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1325 on: 31 December, 2015, 05:59:08 pm »
I'm sure Roger the (ex)Moneyman posted about there being hostility/suspicion from the start by the team towards YACF members.

Doesn't bother me too much, but it is a bit of a liberty given they were happy enough to take our coin.

The reason for the bunker mentality is genuinely beyond me.

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1326 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:05:34 pm »
In fairness to the whole money ting. I don't recall there being any mention of donors receiving monthly updates, special dispensation, etc over non doners. You agree to give some money then you agree to give some money - end of.

Having said that now that the record looks very much out of reach, and Steve's only goal was to get the HAMR then those in the know should say what is going on. Because after today it won't make any sense. If Steve wants to better the record that he'll set at the the stroke of midnight he is better off starting afresh rather than carrying on.

Charlie Boy

  • Dreams in kilometers
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1327 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:12:44 pm »
In fairness to the whole money ting. I don't recall there being any mention of donors receiving monthly updates, special dispensation, etc over non doners. You agree to give some money then you agree to give some money - end of.

Having said that now that the record looks very much out of reach, and Steve's only goal was to get the HAMR then those in the know should say what is going on. Because after today it won't make any sense. If Steve wants to better the record that he'll set at the the stroke of midnight he is better off starting afresh rather than carrying on.

I disagree. It's only courteous of the team to keep those paying for it informed.

And it would also stifle an awful lot of speculation and rumour.
Mojo is being awakened.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1328 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:18:15 pm »
Why did the Team go cold on YACF / the audax community?

Given some of what is posted, especially in this thread, are you really in the dark?

I am. Any publicly discussed venture, however worthwhile and laudable, will always attract a range of positive and negative commentary. The way to deflect and neutralise the negative and build from the positive is to attract and involve supporters by managed sharing of frequent positive news, not by hiding. Clamming up just encourages uncontrolled, uninformed, negative speculation. Like is posted here, especially in this thread. This is beginner-level PR.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1329 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:19:15 pm »
Can anyone on the team tell us what Steve's target distance is for the August attempt? And what weekly and monthly targets have they set to measure whether it is realistic?
Interesting questions (although I'm pretty sure they are both rhetorical!). Some possible answers:

A) either "The record" or "Godwin's figure (as targetted on 1st Jan 2015) with a stretch goal of Kurt's  "

B) A bit odd; have any other recent attempts had such targets?

Well, as I said above, there needs to be a get-out clause in every major project and if there is a specific target milage in mind for August, then what is it? It's pretty easy, by doing some sums, to find out whether the end target is still achievable.

Most of us, of course, have already done those sums. It would be good to see the Team's thinking on this.
I dont recall Kurt making any such statements (or Miles, or Bruce, or IronOx ... ), and I dont recall you asking these questions back in December or after The Moped Incident.

How come you've gone all Dragons Den now?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Charlie Boy

  • Dreams in kilometers
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1330 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:20:16 pm »
Why did the Team go cold on YACF / the audax community?

Given some of what is posted, especially in this thread, are you really in the dark?

I am. Any publicly discussed venture, however worthwhile and laudable, will always attract a range of positive and negative commentary. The way to deflect and neutralise the negative and build from the positive is to attract and involve supporters by managed sharing of frequent positive news, not by hiding. Clamming up just encourages uncontrolled, uninformed, negative speculation. Like is posted here, especially in this thread. This is beginner-level PR.

Precisely, and much more eloquently put than I managed!
Mojo is being awakened.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1331 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:21:57 pm »

How come you've gone all Dragons Den now?

Well, it is a lot more watchable now they've got rid of Duncan ruddy Bannatyne.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1332 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:23:54 pm »
The justifiable criticism and questions have come a long time after Steve's team climbed into their bunker. Their whole secrecy thing started ages ago.

I agree that the lack of pr from the team and the secrecy is difficult to comprehend, and an openness would have help rather than alienate some supporters. However, whilst I can only piece together team members from reading posts and CitizenFish's book, it is not true that all the team avoid this thread; indeed it doesn't need them all commenting but a co-ordinated approach and more information would have been undoubtedly helpful for what is a very public attempt.

Neverttheless my very best wishes to Steve and all his team and former team for 2016

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1333 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:39:10 pm »
@Matt C: I don't know what the expression to "Go all Dragon's Den" means.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1334 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:43:40 pm »
I'll be interested to see if Kurt gets much recognition for his achievement.
I would hope so, unless the cycling fraternity is so up their own as to be beyond sane consideration - it won't be many more days when, talking about Steve's ride for the day, the expression "that's X amount of miles to a Godwin" will be basically, completely irrelevant. There will most likely be a new name at the top of the register. And if anybody's got any nous whatsoever, they'll be looking at how he managed to do it.
Garry Broad

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1335 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:51:39 pm »
I'm sure Roger the (ex)Moneyman posted about there being hostility/suspicion from the start by the team towards YACF members.

Hmm. I wonder why?  ;D

I reckon if the team had to respond to all the "concerns" expressed on here they'd have no time left to support Steve. Hardly surprising if they feel the best policy is to stay well out of it...
Embrace your inner Fred.

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1336 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:52:23 pm »
I'll be interested to see if Kurt gets much recognition for his achievement.
I would hope so, unless the cycling fraternity is so up their own as to be beyond sane consideration - it won't be many more days when, talking about Steve's ride for the day, the expression "that's X amount of miles to a Godwin" will be basically, completely irrelevant. There will most likely be a new name at the top of the register. And if anybody's got any nous whatsoever, they'll be looking at how he managed to do it.

As a start I'd say:-

Easiest routing possible, avoiding hills and as a bonus ride with a tailwind.

I'd say 30kph minimum average speed.

But most important imo, is to get into a routine regarding when you are sleeping and riding. Helps the system to adjust and aids recovery - massively. I'm fairly certain Jo has got somewhere the start and finish times of Kurt for any given days rding. You look at how consistent they are compared to Steve's.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1337 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:56:15 pm »
@Matt C: I don't know what the expression to "Go all Dragon's Den" means.
I'm terribly sorry your honour. :D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1338 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:57:53 pm »
But most important imo, is to get into a routine regarding when you are sleeping and riding. Helps the system to adjust and aids recovery - massively. I'm fairly certain Jo has got somewhere the start and finish times of Kurt for any given days rding. You look at how consistent they are compared to Steve's.

Miles was a rather extreme example of an erratic riding pattern, and that didn't turn out so well  I started worrying for Steve when his start times got progressively later.  I know this was explained as wind-cheating, but I can't really see how this record can be broken by choosing to do so much night riding.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1339 on: 31 December, 2015, 06:59:42 pm »
Why did the Team go cold on YACF / the audax community?

Given some of what is posted, especially in this thread, are you really in the dark?

That was not my question.  Some info comes from Facebook or elsewhere and gets re-posted here.  I just wondered why there had been the decision taken to put what information was released onto Facebook rather than here.  Steve, as far as I am aware, is not a big Facebooker, but he is obviously well known here.

Charlie Boy

  • Dreams in kilometers
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1340 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:05:25 pm »
I'm sure Roger the (ex)Moneyman posted about there being hostility/suspicion from the start by the team towards YACF members.

Hmm. I wonder why?  ;D

I reckon if the team had to respond to all the "concerns" expressed on here they'd have no time left to support Steve. Hardly surprising if they feel the best policy is to stay well out of it...

I don't think anyone is suggesting they should. But there are enough people who have suggested that regular updates would be appreciated, to warrant them IMHO.
Mojo is being awakened.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1341 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:06:38 pm »
In fairness to the whole money ting. I don't recall there being any mention of donors receiving monthly updates, special dispensation, etc over non doners. You agree to give some money then you agree to give some money - end of.

I agree (except for "ting" - it's tHing !!! ).

There was no contract drawn-up by sponsors/donors. Nobody made demands a year ago.

When comms were discussed a few months back, someone (jaded?) mentioned what commercial sponsors expect from endurance feats; it depends. We - the public - don't usually know.

In many cases a sponsor just wants to see their name on the car/balloon/yacht - or on the event website.
Some expect their driver/rider to attend dinners, sign autographs etc. This will be specified upfront. They'd be pretty fecking stupid to require Steve to take time-out from riding.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1342 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:07:42 pm »


As a start I'd say:-

Easiest routing possible, avoiding hills and as a bonus ride with a tailwind.


It appears to me Kurt has ridden a more hilly route than Steve.

The HAMR leaderboard has mileage and total elevation for each rider.

Dividing the respective figures gives 21.8 feet per mile for Kurt, and 21.0 feet per mile for Steve.

Only a few inches in it, but the notion Kurt has taken the easier option of flat routes is false - assuming I've done the arithmetic correctly.

http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1343 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:15:05 pm »


As a start I'd say:-

Easiest routing possible, avoiding hills and as a bonus ride with a tailwind.


It appears to me Kurt has ridden a more hilly route than Steve.

The HAMR leaderboard has mileage and total elevation for each rider.

Dividing the respective figures gives 21.8 feet per mile for Kurt, and 21.0 feet per mile for Steve.

Only a few inches in it, but the notion Kurt has taken the easier option of flat routes is false - assuming I've done the arithmetic correctly.

http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/

You've not used LFL figures wrt milage.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1344 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:16:28 pm »


As a start I'd say:-

Easiest routing possible, avoiding hills and as a bonus ride with a tailwind.


It appears to me Kurt has ridden a more hilly route than Steve.

The HAMR leaderboard has mileage and total elevation for each rider.

Dividing the respective figures gives 21.8 feet per mile for Kurt, and 21.0 feet per mile for Steve.

Only a few inches in it, but the notion Kurt has taken the easier option of flat routes is false - assuming I've done the arithmetic correctly.

http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/data/hamr/

Yes, I saw that the other day, and thought.....'err, what, that can't be true surely, how the hell does that work?'

Maybe the inclines have been over a longer distance on better road surfaces and the descents nice and gradual,maybe making it easier to ride [if that's possible].

No idea. But I did think it was an interesting and also also somewhat dumbfounding statistic.
Garry Broad

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1345 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:22:02 pm »
Yes, I saw that somewhere the other day too.  I was surprised, but I've not followed Kurt very closely.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1346 on: 31 December, 2015, 07:51:06 pm »
Yes, I saw that somewhere the other day too.  I was surprised, but I've not followed Kurt very closely.

Kurt hasn't done his all his miles in Florida. Wisconsin and Arkansas, the two other main locations of his effort, are not flat places, but rolling terrain. Northern Arkansas (where Little Rock is) is in an ancient mountain range called the Ozarks. The parts of Wisconsin that weren't razed by glaciers are constant up and down.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1347 on: 31 December, 2015, 08:11:48 pm »
There was no contract drawn-up by sponsors/donors. Nobody made demands a year ago.

I have no idea whether contracts were drawn up for sponsors. Do you have any insider knowledge on this?

And no-one's making "demands" now. We're simply asking, politely, to know what Steve's intentions are. Because we get no reply we keep on asking.

In any case a year ago no-one would have suspected there'd be such a dearth of information. Looking at the oneYearTimeTrial web site news section, the most recent entries are dated 1st Dec and 14th July...
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Fidgetbuzz

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1348 on: 31 December, 2015, 08:19:38 pm »
Having left the team -- i have tried not to post in any way that seems to be counter productive for Steve's efforts. I was and still am in complete awe of the person whose determination to attack the Tommy record led to him riding one legged round the MK bowl - and despite the accident when it was obvious that the 2015 record was unachievable ( other than his age group record) still got up every day , battled with some digestive problem and yet still clocked over 60,000 miles. STEVE YOU HAVE BEEN AN OUTSTANDING ATHLETE , EARNING THE RESPECT AND ADMIRATION OF ALL WHO KNOW YOU.

But the year is over now and I feel i can at least  make some of my personal feelings known --i.e.  ..  you should not take significant sums of money including a lot on an ongoing basis from donors without feeling a responsibility to keep them informed .. not daily .. not necessarily weekly .. but at least monthly and maybe also when  something interesting crops up.

Dislike of YACF .. comes from the approach of the team leader who perceived that any information about Steve and his plans , performance , problems -- in fact anything at all would potentially be helpful to Kurt -- with his 10 day time buffer. The team leader  was deeply suspicious of the help offered by very senior Audax members -- such as HK , LW&B,( including comment that they were deliberately trying to scupper Steve and Hoppo's  attempt  when  there was a bottle of wine in the  back of a photo),  Aidan H was  seen as suspicious when he tried to sort some of Steves communication, computerisation  , and lighting problems, because he was friendly with Hk etc.   I was threatened on two separate occasions with immediate dismissal  for a YACF post ( made me smile at the absurdity of the written  CAPITALISED  rant as all money was coming to me -- so it was not clear how I could be dismissed) . There were never any team discussions about how to help Steve -- the attitude was always ... it is Steves ride, he knows what he is doing .. do not even bother to think about making any suggestions. Even when it was obvious that Steve had made a mistake ie not sleeping before starting PBP -- the team was told to shut up .... Steve knows best. There was no team conversation about the best restart date .. and I still believe thta a pause with the 2nd attempt starting on 1.1 16 with a new approach and possibly a different team would have given Steve a decent chance at the record.

But on the other hand -- the MK support has been completely behind Steve all year -- and to the best of my knowledge have put 100% effort into looking after him , being in the right place at the right time .. and providing him with total support.

It has become obvious over time that this record requires something way beyond an amateur approach .. it needs very serious planning and colossal support ( not just financially -- which Steve has had ) but in more areas than I can separately list. This inclines me to believe that the second attempt is destined to fail.. BUT .. if a dedicated team could be found, put their heads together and plotted a serious attempt beginning 1.1.17 then the rider who might be able to take the record  does exist in UK -- and that is Steve.

I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1349 on: 31 December, 2015, 08:24:01 pm »
Blimey.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...