Which mig welder?

[hairyhippy]

I am going to get a small gas /no gas mig welder to run on single phase 240V. What would you recommend?

[Gattopardo]

I am going to get a small gas /no gas mig welder to run on single phase 240V. What would you recommend?

No gas mig gives a really poor finish (the inerst gas comes from the wire), and small disposable gas bottles last no time at all and are expensive.  Also the cheaper machines don't have constant wire speed, the actual speed of the wire, and makes it harder to do consistant long welds.

Have you mig welded before? 

What sort of stuff are you going to be welding?

[hairyhippy]

Nope, I'm a noob when it comes to welding. I'm looking to weld no thicker than 3mm steel.

[Valiant]

Oooh I'm interested too

[Gattopardo]

Is that new metal or new metal on to old metal?

If you haven't got a good mate to show you what to do I would recomend doing a welding evening class, just so you get hints and tips from some one who does it alot.  This to include how to set the machine up as well as how to weld consistantly.

Also doing an evening class would get you to try gas, mig, stick (arc) and Tig to see what you prefer, and what machine you should get.

[hairyhippy]

Tried that route, but I work evenings.

[Gattopardo]

Tried that route, but I work evenings.

Ahhh  Is this to build a bike frame?

Oh and we are talking mild steel, not stainless steeel.

[Charlotte]

I know a little about welding.  Inspired both by Flashdance and an insane desire to get onto Scrapheap Challenge, I did a series of evening courses many years ago and got City and Guilds qualifications in ARC, MIG, TIG and gas welding.  I'm also a dab hand with a plasma cutter.

The chaps have it right - "no gas" MIG systems (as can be found far apparent bargain prices) are shite.  In fact, most of the "consumer" systems you can buy are shite.  As a general rule, you want to be able to have fine control over three main elements:

Gas flow
Wire feed
Electricity

When you've got them all working in perfect harmony for your workpiece, you'll not be blowing holes through the metal or leaving pigeon droppings all over the place.

When I finally bought a Clarke MIG welder for myself (which I subsequently sold onto Mr Gates ) It was powerful enough to weld up 4mm plate to a fairly good standard.  It used smaller, disposable "consumer bottles", but had an option to run off half-sized BOC cylinders (which was what I'd planned to use if I ended up doing more than the odd job with it).  Although gas is bloody expensive this way, it lasted better than I thought and I managed to weld up a lovely workbench table for myself on less than a bottle.

In short - you get what you pay for HH.  Also - if you don't know what you're doing, until you've had a chance to practice and make a load of mistakes, you WILL make welds that look like crap.  It's so much easier when you've at least been showed the basics, so don't expect to start work on that project straight away or you're going to wreck your nice new materials...

[Gattopardo]

I know a little about welding.  Inspired both by Flashdance and an insane desire to get onto Scrapheap Challenge, I did a series of evening courses many years ago and got City and Guilds qualifications in ARC, MIG, TIG and gas welding.  I'm also a dab hand with a plasma cutter.

The chaps have it right - "no gas" MIG systems (as can be found far apparent bargain prices) are shite.  In fact, most of the "consumer" systems you can buy are shite.  As a general rule, you want to be able to have fine control over three main elements:

Gas flow
Wire feed
Electricity

When you've got them all working in perfect harmony for your workpiece, you'll not be blowing holes through the metal or leaving pigeon droppings all over the place.

When I finally bought a Clarke MIG welder for myself (which I subsequently sold onto Mr Gates ) It was powerful enough to weld up 4mm plate to a fairly good standard.  It used smaller, disposable "consumer bottles", but had an option to run off half-sized BOC cylinders (which was what I'd planned to use if I ended up doing more than the odd job with it).  Although gas is bloody expensive this way, it lasted better than I thought and I managed to weld up a lovely workbench table for myself on less than a bottle.

In short - you get what you pay for HH.  Also - if you don't know what you're doing, until you've had a chance to practice and make a load of mistakes, you WILL make welds that look like crap.  It's so much easier when you've at least been showed the basics, so don't expect to start work on that project straight away or you're going to wreck your nice new materials...

Plasma cutters are my favourite toys.  You can even sign your name in sheets of metal.

Nower days I'd look at cerbora (sp?) as clarke quality seems to have dropped. Cerbora seem to get really good right ups. Nice constant wire feed is what to look for, that makes the job easier but I seem to get a neater finish with Tig.  I'm tempted to do another welding course as I haven't welded in so long.

[rae]

Hmmmm.

Cheap MIGs are not good news.  They fail in the following areas:

- Duty cycle - if you use them continuously, then they overheat.  Not really a problem for the average DIY person.
- Power - this relates to how thick the metal is that you want to join together.  Lightweight car body work - fine with a small machine.  Welding up farm machinery is more of a problem.
- Wire feed - a MIG depends on a constant and consistent wire feed.   If the feed is not constant, then your welds will be pants.  If the feed is not consistent, then you will turn the the machine to the "same setting as last time" and it will blow great chunks out of the metal.
- Flux cored MIG is rubbish.   Avoid.
- Disposable gas bottles are rubbish, unless you like paying shed loads of cash for disposable bottles.  BOC Argoshield all the way
- Materials - what are you trying to weld?  If mild steel, fine.  If Aluminium or Stainless you'll need things like push-pull or spool guns
- Accesories - cheap migs have hardwired torches which are generally rubbish.   Proper socketed torches flow the wire far better.    If you do get a hardwired torch, replace it with a decent one as soon as you can.

Lots to think about - mainly - what are you going to weld, and how often. 

Also - why MIG?  I'd rather have a cheap stick welder than a cheap MIG. 

Recommendations:

Gold standard: Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Butters, Kemppi

Mid range: SIP, Cebora  etc

Everything else, who knows.  Cebora used to be good, but not sure any more.  Anything you buy from the likes of Machine Mart will be pretty pants these days.  Go to a proper welding shop (it will be on some crappy industrial estate) and ask them - you'll get a proper machine and the bloke will probably show you how to drive it. 

As a beginning welder, the one thing you need is an "autodark" helmet.  Being able to see what you are doing is quite handy. 

If I was doing it again, I'd buy a Miller Millermatic 180 or the equivalent from the Lincoln range. 

[David Martin]

I am not a great welder. I have a cheap MIG welder (some italian brand) and it has the following flaws

Infrequent use means the weld wire goes crappy. Keep it dry dry and drier.
Gas can get to be expensive. Little bottles are crap. Gassless is OK for small ugly jobs but takes practice to get nice.

It is lots of fun when it isn't being frustrating.

And I wish I could get to an evening class. All I know is what my dad (FWeldI Euro registered welding engineer group whatever and so forth) taught me. Knowing what is going wrong in terms of leccy/line speed/etc. is half the game to getting it right.

..d

[Ham]

IANAW, but I'm also thinking of getting a little arc welder (eg http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/010110942) to stick bits of rebar / mild steel for garden growing frames. Will it work to stick that sort of thing together, or will I be better off brazing? With a cheap mig? Or, a more expensive Mig ?

[Mr Arch]

I have a Cebora Boxer 155 MIG welder and a Y size BOC argoshield gas cylinder.  I picked it up for less then £100 on Ebay with the gas bottle.

Having used a Clarkes MIG welder in the past I would recommend getting a professional or good quality welder second hand rather then a new POS from machine mart and the like.

I do also have three sub £50 (when new) arc welders which have never let me down.  One is for light duty site work where as the other two I have fitted huge fans on the back to increase cooling and duty cycle for workshop use.

I'd like a plasma cutter and TIG welder but I need to get a new bottle from BOC for the MIG first so I can carry on making stuff..

I learnt to weld as a child but 12 years ago I went on a pipe welding course and did MIG, TIG, Arc, Oxy Hydrogen and Oxy acetelyne (welding and cutting).

[inc]

I would agree with the comments above, regarding the low quality of the cheap welding machines. It really depends what you want to weld but unless your material  is very thin stick welding will give good results. I would go for a decent DC unit which you could also use for scratch tig. Something like this  www.engweld.co.uk/Welding_Machines/TIG~MMA_Welders/i7179/ESAB_BUDDYARC_145_Stick_Welder_240V_0700_300_884.html     this is just an example.

[Wobbly John]

I use a SIP mig welder at work - I think it's the 190 or 195, and it works fine. It welded the Wobblebike frame that I did the Dun Run on, and happily pull wheelies on. 



I've used a couple of Sealey welders (one brand new, rated higher than our SIP one) and they both were crap.

I started off welding bike frames with a cheap stick welder. None of the bikes broke on me. 
I can't stick weld with anything thinner than 2mm - they're toooo springy, like welding with a coathanger. 

Lidl were selling stick welders at under £40 when I went in yesterday (They aren't on their website, but I think they were £34.95 )

[Ham]

I'm thinking of trying to weld 6 - 10 mm bar, I was worried it wouldn't be man enough?

[numbnuts]

Do a double V prep (><) and it will be fine

[loadsabikes]

Cheap welders are like cheap bikes, frustrating and ultimately not much use.
'gasless' mig welders are worse than useless, they suffer from irregular wire feed speed and the welding current tends to float all over the place.
I use a welder/generator for stick welding. It is self contained so you do not need to worry about the available electricity supply.
Brilliant for those security grille jobs with no power!

Top Tip!......... Keep your rods dry. As winter comes in, if you keep your welding rods in that cold damp garage, bung them in a warm oven for twenty minutes prior to welding, they will strike much better!

I'm always happy to help/interfere with welding projects, just get in touch.

[Mr Arch]

I'm thinking of trying to weld 6 - 10 mm bar, I was worried it wouldn't be man enough?

Double bevel the edges and it will be fine, as said above.

I generally use an arc welder for that thickness as it penetrates more easily.