Windsor Chester Windsor 2019

[kegere]

I was helping at LWL Lambourn control recently and watched a few riders overshoot, including one who mentioned he'd left the other side of the town before realising he'd missed it.

Has anyone experience of secret controls, I'm paranoid that I will go sailing past without noticing it particularly if dark. Are they normally positioned in a really obvious place, like a junction with a right hand turn so as to minimise people overshooting?

I'd hate to get to a much later control and realise my brevet is missing a rather important stamp!

[Smeth]

I was one of the controllers at Sheriffhales last time and will be at Sheriffhales this time.

Thanks for the 2015 TLC. I'll be a general dogsbody further up/ down the line this time.   

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[jakemcree]

If anyone can help him I'm sure he'd be very grateful.

Does this help?  https://www.camaudax.uk/rides/lel/wcw/2019/

Awesome, cheers Nick.

[Ben T]

I was helping at LWL Lambourn control recently and watched a few riders overshoot, including one who mentioned he'd left the other side of the town before realising he'd missed it.

Has anyone experience of secret controls, I'm paranoid that I will go sailing past without noticing it particularly if dark. Are they normally positioned in a really obvious place, like a junction with a right hand turn so as to minimise people overshooting?

I'd hate to get to a much later control and realise my brevet is missing a rather important stamp!

I have, albeit not in the UK. There was loads, and they were basically somebody with their car boot open, directors chair and trestle table in a layby. They were easy to see and weren't in the dark. (They want you to stop, remember, the intention isn't to hide in a hedge to catch you out )
Whether WCW will be similar I don't know but I would imagine they will have thought about making sure they are not easy to miss. If I was doing a secret and it was dark I would probably put up a (possibly flashing) rear bike light on a post or something.

[jiberjaber]

Hi Danial - I know there is not bag drop now, but it is feasible to leave a bag at the start/finish? (just thinking of my overnight bag from my overnight stay prior to the start)

[alwyn]

Yes, plenty of space if you want to leave a bag.

[JonBuoy]

This was supposed to be my final PBP qualifier and I was really looking forward to it but...a momentary lapse of concentration and a touch of wheels had me tarmac surfing last Thursday evening.  Nothing broken but my groin and ribs don't work too well.  I drove to work yesterday for the first time this decade and emailed Danial last night to tell him that I am a DNS 

I hope the rest of you have a good time - it looks a great route.

I am now booked onto Willesden's Last Gasp.  Hopefully I will be sorted by then.

[pfcboy]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

[Smeth]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

As you say wild speculation but I'd say 4 hours seems what many people target.  My range in 600+ is from nothing to 6 hours in a Travelodge. Don't worry if time doesn't allow. A power nap or two is manageable. My sleep aims are usually nibbled by the need to crack on.


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[psyclist]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

I wouldn't worry about the average. I would work out when you need to leave the sleep stop to ensure you comfortably finish the ride, allowing for a slightly slower average speed than the first day, and including a buffer.

I rode the Brimstone last weekend, a rather undulating 600km in Wessex. I had 1 hour of sleep, which was fine to reset my body clock and ensure a comfortable second day. On other 600s I've had anything from no sleep to 3 hours.

[vorsprung]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

Please check out my top ten sleep tips

Basically, the answer is "at least 1.5h asleep" or "as much as you feel like and time will allow"

[wilkyboy]

Also, if you stop at the sleep stop, factor in additional time just to get off-route to the stop, prepare to sleep, and then after prepare to ride and to get going again.  I reckon, from experience, there's a good 45 minutes lost in the faffage of a full sleep stop, on top of the time in bed — more, if you're trying to stick with a ride buddy.  On my last 600 (The Flatlands solo route check) I managed an hour's snooze in McD's, amounting to a two-hour stop overall with breakfast.

I'll probably do my usual — an hour or a couple of halves as I go, with 20-minute sit-downs for the rest at the other controls.  I'll be carrying a lightweight sleep mat for bus-shelter use should I need it, and we're forecast a really warm night, so no need for anything more than I'd be carrying anyway (rain jacket is usefully snug on such nights).

On a 6am start and based on my pace last weekend, I think I should be able to get quite a long way back to Bray before needing to stop, assuming I can bank some sleep over the next few nights (edit: not exactly bank, but just make sure I don't have much in the way of sleep debt, as Vorsprung said).

[pfcboy]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

Thanks guys all good points guess I wont know till the day I like the thought of knowing I can have a designated sleep stop, but don't want to waste time unduly.

[john jackson]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

Thanks guys all good points guess I wont know till the day I like the thought of knowing I can have a designated sleep stop, but don't want to waste time unduly.

I am the controller at the sleep stop at Sheriffhales. We will get you into bed as quickly as we can, and wake you a a time you choose.
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.

• It is quieter
• You are lying down
• You have a blanket so you are warmer
• You have controllers who will wake you, so you  do not over sleep, or sleep less as you worry about oversleeping
• Quick breakfast of cereal and toast and a brew to set you up for the next leg

I would advise bringing ear plugs in case we have someone who snores.
I normally sleep for 3 hours or more if I am riding fast.

[pfcboy]

Please ignore my ignorance as this will be my first 600km and self doubt is creeping upon me one of my concerns is sleep, I know it depends on pace but what is the average length of stay at the sleep zone?

Thanks guys all good points guess I wont know till the day I like the thought of knowing I can have a designated sleep stop, but don't want to waste time unduly.

I am the controller at the sleep stop at Sheriffhales. We will get you into bed as quickly as we can, and wake you a a time you choose.
You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.

• It is quieter
• You are lying down
• You have a blanket so you are warmer
• You have controllers who will wake you, so you  do not over sleep, or sleep less as you worry about oversleeping
• Quick breakfast of cereal and toast and a brew to set you up for the next leg

I would advise bringing ear plugs in case we have someone who snores.
I normally sleep for 3 hours or more if I am riding fast.

SOLD. I'll see you there. PS No sugar in my brew

[wilkyboy]

You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.

Just to be clear — what John says is okay, if that works for you, but it is not a universal truth.  I have rarely had a good rest at a sleep stop on any full-service event, and so have become quite accustomed to getting by on cat naps as needed, as they give the same re-charging but without any of the faff; the exceptions being towards the end of many-day events (LEL, PBP) when exhaustion overcomes the issues, and once on BCM. 

You'll find what works for you, but on x-rated 600s (or bonkers 1200s, like PBP) then you'll have to learn to do without anyway 

[Phil W]

Don't turn too early for Lilleshall control on the way back either.  The roads shown on my screen grab of my 2015 track are less than 50m apart.

When you get to Lilleshall and Sherrifhales take a look at how far ahead of the time limits you are.  Have something to eat at Lilleshall.  I intended to ride through the night in 2015 but it started raining heavily as I was passing Sheriffhales so I dived in there, slept, then left when the rain had reduced back to drizzle.  There was no faff, GPS turned off, then to bed.  I like to aim for 3-5 hours stopped at a sleep control.  I won't say sleep as it's not instant, but my eyes are at least closed.  If I'm definitely not sleepy I get up and head off to the next control.  So make a judgement call on how sleepy you are and whether you think you can make the next control before needing to close your eyes.

[pfcboy]

You will sleep better at a proper sleep stop than at a McDs or at the side of the road.

Just to be clear — what John says is okay, if that works for you, but it is not a universal truth.  I have rarely had a good rest at a sleep stop on any full-service event, and so have become quite accustomed to getting by on cat naps as needed, as they give the same re-charging but without any of the faff; the exceptions being towards the end of many-day events (LEL, PBP) when exhaustion overcomes the issues, and once on BCM. 

You'll find what works for you, but on x-rated 600s (or bonkers 1200s, like PBP) then you'll have to learn to do without anyway 

You are quite right of course but to be honest I am not sure what works for me, I like the idea of breaking the ride up with a 'sleep' so mentally its just 2 x300 over 2 days if you understand my logic. My 400km I just rode until I finished around 3am but I only then had a short journey home so it wasn't too bad.

[Wobbly]

I don't think I've ever slept at an official sleep stop on a 600. However, I've grabbed catnaps on most of them - everything from bus shelters, pub tables, shop doorways or simply the grass verge.

I find 15 mins' shuteye when I need works for me - your mileage may vary, of course.  That's why I always advise PBP virgins to do more than just one 400 and one 600 so they can learn what their body needs.

[grams]

Even if you like the idea of sleep, there’s a fair chance when you put your head down you won’t be able to. Unless you’re absolutely knackered, switching from riding mode to sleeping mode at will is *hard*.

(With usual “everyone’s different” caveats)

[wilkyboy]

You are quite right of course but to be honest I am not sure what works for me, I like the idea of breaking the ride up with a 'sleep' so mentally its just 2 x300 over 2 days if you understand my logic. My 400km I just rode until I finished around 3am but I only then had a short journey home so it wasn't too bad.

My point was not to dissuade you from John's embrace — seriously, if you can make it work for you then do so, John and his team WILL look after you grandly, and you'll be all the better for it, they know what they're about 

As for two 300s — to get that experience then you would sleep in Christleton.  But you'll be sleeping in Sherrifhales, which is another 80km down the road, leaving a nice, "short" 230 to do in the morning 

Unless you are really slow or make the most of each and every control then you should get back to Lilleshall around 1-2am, at which point you may feel tired, or you may feel like cracking on into the night.  You won't know until you're there — it's an interesting one when you do get there the first time, because you'll be learning something new about your endurance-self 

The other one to watch is how often and how much you eat at the controls.  I got around LEL asking for half-portions and skipping pudding because it was all too much; delicious, but I couldn't digest it that quickly, and wasn't low on energy either.  On my 400 at the weekend, I was still digesting the sandwich I ate at 220km when we stopped 90km later and so didn't bother to eat anything much beyond a single stick of Twix and the remaining bite from a tea cake from breakfast.  My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel.  It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event 

[Phil W]

Am I right in thinking that as this is a mandatory route there will be no info controls and therefore no need to bring a pen?

[JulesP]

Am I right in thinking that as this is a mandatory route there will be no info controls and therefore no need to bring a pen?

There are just two secret controls, according to the official info, though it doesn't say what form they'll take.

[Wobbly]

My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel.  It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event 

I am frankly alarmed at your omission of a helping of Wobbly's Brandified Bread Pudding at the Hartlebury Control.

I'm sure that's merely an oversight and that, after a portion, you'll be staggering onward worrying, like everyone else, about being breathalysed...

[wilkyboy]

My plan for WCW (based on lots of experience) is to bounce the first control, which is really early in the ride, eat lightly at the second (break fast here) and third (lunch), bounce the fourth (maybe a cuppa and a biscuit), stop longer at the turn (dinner/supper) and take it easy on the way back seeing how I feel.  It's something else to self-monitor while you're riding the event 

I am frankly alarmed at your omission of a helping of Wobbly's Brandified Bread Pudding at the Hartlebury Control.

I'm sure that's merely an oversight and that, after a portion, you'll be staggering onward worrying, like everyone else, about being breathalysed...

That's lunch sorted, thank you