Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Folders => Topic started by: Morrisette on 16 August, 2016, 10:14:39 am
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Hello! Looking for some of the famous YACF collective wisdom.
I'm looking for a 'Plan B' bike - basically a folder that I can also ride all the way home on when the trains are cancelled.
At the moment I have a Dahon Curve which is perfect for the bike-train commute (folds small, nice to ride in town, not too heavy, can carry a pannier bag on back rack). However the downsides of the bike are that it is useless on hills (even a slight slope is like a mini alp) and in a headwind it really doesn't move, and it seems to eat chains (had to replace one after about 3 months use and they seem to stretch instantly). I probably could ride it 16 miles if it was dead flat (no) with no wind (very unlikely) but I really wouldn't want to. Another minor point is that the Curve is very difficult to lock securely so I'm a bit stuck for leaving it anywhere if there's a bus replacement that won't allow any bikes.
So my question is - does anyone have a folder they would be happy to ride 16 miles on, including some very bad road surfaces and one big hill? I've thought bigger wheels might be the way to go, or different bars so I'm not sitting so upright? But open to any suggestions!
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People have ridden LEL on one. I've ridden mine 80 miles, several times. It depends on your tolerance for a slightly sluggish ride, narrow grips (on a Brompton) and a bit of a pounding on rough roads due to the small wheels. The flexibility when pedalling is something you get used to after a few miles - Bromptons have a fore-and-aft squidginess unlike a normal bike - and they can go up and down hills well enough.
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I have a Montague Boston (https://www.montaguebikes.com/store/boston/) which I love and would have no problem riding under the conditions you mention. I have replaced the wheels with some lighter open pros from my other bike so it is a bit nippier than when I bought it, but that is one of the advantages of having full size wheels - all the components are standard road bike.
The only drawback is that it doesn't fold as small as a Dahon or Brompton (but it is a fast fold at around 20-30 seconds) and so might result in grumpy fellow passengers on a crowded train or a refusal from a grumpy bus driver.
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I've ridden 100 miles including the v hilly circumnavigation of the Isle of Wight on my Dahon Speed TR (no longer made). It was absolutely fine. The Dahon was also my commuter (16 miles total a day) for quite a while - again no problem. But I'm not the fastest of riders on any bike so I didn't notice additional sloth.
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My wife and I toured extensively on Airnimal Joeys and I would think your cycling would not be a problem on one. The first fold on them is quite quick but does still give more bulky package than some of the true folders.
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My folder is the Dahon Mu Uno - single speed with a 63" gear, enough for me to get up most hills if needed. There ain't none, so you don't expect them. Benefit is simplicity - no cables to the rear - and long chain life. I've got a Brooks on it, and I've happily gone 40 miles, I just expect it to be slower on average - it gets a bit spinny if you want to go fast.
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People have ridden LEL on one.
I think this is going to have to be a Rule According To Kim™: Just because someone's completed $epic_audax on one doesn't actually mean it's appropriate for riding long distances.
I've ridden mine 80 miles, several times. It depends on your tolerance for a slightly sluggish ride, narrow grips (on a Brompton) and a bit of a pounding on rough roads due to the small wheels. The flexibility when pedalling is something you get used to after a few miles - Bromptons have a fore-and-aft squidginess unlike a normal bike - and they can go up and down hills well enough.
I think the most I've done on my Brompton is about 55 miles, but some of that counts double due to pavé (I was swearing about how next time I was bringing the mountain bike for much of that). I certainly wouldn't consider 16 miles too far, though 5 miles is more typical for what I regularly use it for.
The narrow grips on a Brompton problem is surely only something that affects people with big hands and non-S bars? (Though mine has the grip shifter problem of knobbling your thumb if you spend too much time on the flats.) Regardless, if you're going to be doing non-trivial distances, bar-ends are going to be a worthwhile upgrade.
Agreed about the rest, though my experience is that the sluggishness make them fairly rubbish for descending too. Climbing is the one thing where the Brompton doesn't feel slow.
Nevertheless, larger wheels would certainly make the whole thing a fair bit more pleasant. 20" Dahons, for example, are much nicer bikes to ride than Bromptons. It's working out how much you value the fold.
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Kim reminds me that the Mu comes with Ergon grips, too.
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I think there are several different answers, depending on the priority you give to ease (and size) of fold as opposed to rideability.
Is this a bike that will be folded and stowed on public transport at least twice every working day, but needs to be just-about-rideable for the chance of a once-every-six-months train cancellation? Or is it a bike that you plan - in a few months' time, maybe - to be using to ride the full 16 mile journey most days (at any rate one way), but want to keep the flexibility of getting it on a rush-hour train if it's raining or you need to get home early?
If it's the first, a Brompton would be great - like Kim, I've ridden mine 50-odd miles and it's been fine, and I fairly regularly do 8 or 10 or 12 without worrying that I'm using it rather than a non-folder - and I'd have thought the current Dahon would be functional enough for rare emergency use. Would different tyres or stubby bar-ends make a difference to rideability?
If the second, I'd be half-inclined to go for a standard bike and a big lock.
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Hmmm some interesting opinions! The ideal commuting bike would be something like the second bike Jsabine describes - one I could ride all the way home and fold to take on the train equally well. It would be nice to be able to ride one way quite regularly.
The Montagues look interesting - do you have to take the wheels off to fold them? Can't tell from the pictures but it looks like they separate. I think that might be a dealbreaker as I'd then in all probability need a bag as well. The trains aren't super packed (I don't commute to That London, thankfully) so I think a slightly larger fold would not be a huge problem as long as it could go in my customary space by the door.
I couldn't do 16 miles on the Curve, even once in a blue moon. It's strictly a town bike. I think I'm looking at bigger wheels. I'm only 5'2'' so I don't necessarily even need a full-size bike at all (my main bike is a Specialized Vita in Xtra small). Thinking about it something like one of the Montagues might be too big, unless they do different frame sizes.
What do the Panel think about Terns? They seem to do a few larger-wheeled (24 inch?) folders that fold pretty small - the Node range I think it's called. They even do one that is claimed to be a full-on touring folder, but that one is LOTS of money!!
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What do the Panel think about Terns?
Last year I got on a borrowed one and did 26 miles very comfortably straight away. (The owner was test-driving my Galaxy, so we did a swap - that probably makes us both about 5'2" or a smidgen less.) We were mostly on a river path and canals, so not a lot in the way of gradient, although we did take it up the Ackers (http://www.birminghamcyclist.com/forum/topics/ackers-cycle-path-really) and I got up the ridiculously steep cycle path next to the dry ski slope fine.
I'm not sure of the models they had (her chap was on one too), but I seem to remember them saying they'd either been touring on them or planned to.
I've a bit of Brompton riding in London for cross-referencing; but my recent folder experience has been on a 20" wheeled Dawes for Andrij's recent Thames Path Meander (37 miles, I'm guessing that's the pavé Kim didn't enjoy on her Brompton - it was fine for me) and I think maybe 20 miles or so on the Bristol-Bath path - again neither of them particularly hilly. I'd say the larger wheels make a significant difference in the feel of the ride, though!
Not sure if that helps, but that's my twopenneth worth!
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The Montagues look interesting - do you have to take the wheels off to fold them? Can't tell from the pictures but it looks like they separate. I think that might be a dealbreaker as I'd then in all probability need a bag as well. The trains aren't super packed (I don't commute to That London, thankfully) so I think a slightly larger fold would not be a huge problem as long as it could go in my customary space by the door.
Looks like the front wheel only has to come out. It also looks as if the weight of the rider holds it together.
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I've a bit of Brompton riding in London for cross-referencing; but my recent folder experience has been on a 20" wheeled Dawes for Andrij's recent Thames Path Meander (37 miles, I'm guessing that's the pavé Kim didn't enjoy on her Brompton - it was fine for me)
That's the one.
I'd say the larger wheels make a significant difference in the feel of the ride, though!
Agreed. I'm no stranger to 20" wheels, both on recumbents which I do serious mileage on, and my late lamented folding BSO (which, incidentally, I've ridden on some of the TPM route a few times). Cobbles are still unpleasant (although the suspension on the Streetmachine helps a fair bit), but you don't get the sensations of "hard work" and "something's going to break" like you do with 16" wheels. Obviously larger wheels are even better.
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"something's going to break"
LOL and not necessarily on the bike!
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Last year I got on a borrowed one .......
I'm not sure of the models they had (her chap was on one too), but I seem to remember them saying they'd either been touring on them or planned to.
They have Link P24s, same as mine. I quite like mine even though it's not very quick, but I don't think that Roh is over keen on hers as she feels it really slows her down and I think that she's vowed never to tour on it again. Having said that, she borrowed my non-dynamo front wheel and thought it was better, I'm not convinced. Don't think Darren cares for folders of any variety given the choice (probably because most don't fit him so well).
Terns seem to be good vfm, fold easily, are reliable, and easy to ride. I like the adjustable stem too. But the off-the-peg saddle is 'orrible. But fifty miles plus in hilly territory is not difficult on the Tern, as long as you've plenty of time.
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Folding the Montague Boston involves removing the front wheel only (quick release with spring that means you don't have to rotate the paddle to remove). It then pivots around the seat tube and can be secured with a velcro loop attached to the handlers that loops around the rear wheel. The rear triangle and wheel remain untouched in the fold. You can carry the bike with your hand around the upper of the two top tubes. I tend to carry the front wheel in my other hand but the velcro loop can be used to hold the two wheels together as in the photo on the web page, so the whole thing could be carried one handed if you are feeling strong.
Most of the grimy bits are shielded in the fold so there should be no need to bag it. While I ride mine most days I tend not to need to take on public transport but in fold position it does pass the pub test and office test (sitting in the corner of both in fold position has never invited requests to take it outside). I've also got a pair of quick release mudguards (http://www.montaguebikes.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=ac6bba) that keep things comfortable in the wet.
It is nothing like as compact as a Brommie, but it does ride very well feeling indistinguishable from a mid range hybrid non-folding bike.
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Two weeks ago I did the Isle of Man TT course on my Brompton. It was quite a slog, and wasn't a quick ride, and the climb from 5masl to 422masl was killer. But 37.3miles, on the Brompton, no issues.
J
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Think I will try and have a look at all these different bikes in the flesh, if possible! Am definitely leaning toward a larger-wheeled folder. I know people have done the Tour on Bromptons but I have ridden one of those and I'm not that convinced they would be able to walk afterwards.
Interesting what Si said about the Tern saddle, I actually swapped a supposedly 'better' saddle for a budget Dahon one on my main bike. I found the cheapo saddle much more comfortable!
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You come in and out of Cambridge, dont you? Want to borrow a Dahon Speed TR (as mentioned upthread by Pancho) to see what it's like for a week or so?
you can't keep it forever but I can live without it for a bit and it'll let you see how comfy a 20" wheel folder can be! (the saddle is not great though, warning you now.. and it's got a weird I-beam seatpost too, so it's not simple to get a better one on it)
I live near the station and you can leave your Curve here while you're on mine.
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I've done the 37 miles home from work on a Dahon Vitesse 7, a number of times. It's not a bad ride. Some significant hills.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21716908/Dahon_small.jpg)
However, I did in the end treat myself to a Tern Verge X18 (at a massive discount). That's no problem at any distance ;D :thumbsup:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21716908/Tern_small.jpg)
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I've done the 37 miles home from work on a Dahon Vitesse 7, a number of times. It's not a bad ride. Some significant hills.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21716908/Dahon_small.jpg)
However, I did in the end treat myself to a Tern Verge X18 (at a massive discount). That's no problem at any distance ;D :thumbsup:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21716908/Tern_small.jpg)
Irrelevant to the OP, but how are you finding it? For my part, I still love Chutney my Speed Pro TT. 7 miles stretch into Whitstable at 17.5 mph average on Saturday morning. With two laden panniers :)
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Oh, I grinned all 37 miles home the first time I rode it ;D :thumbsup:
I do question value for money at list price, but the reviews are right - it does ride (almost) like a real road bike. I've been riding mostly commuting and touring bikes for a while, and it made me want to go back to real lightweights.
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You come in and out of Cambridge, dont you? Want to borrow a Dahon Speed TR (as mentioned upthread by Pancho) to see what it's like for a week or so?
you can't keep it forever but I can live without it for a bit and it'll let you see how comfy a 20" wheel folder can be! (the saddle is not great though, warning you now.. and it's got a weird I-beam seatpost too, so it's not simple to get a better one on it)
I live near the station and you can leave your Curve here while you're on mine.
Hey Mike! Thanks for the offer. I've actually ridden one of those before so I already have the experience but thanks for the offer :-)
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I've done the 37 miles home from work on a Dahon Vitesse 7, a number of times. It's not a bad ride. Some significant hills.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21716908/Dahon_small.jpg)
However, I did in the end treat myself to a Tern Verge X18 (at a massive discount). That's no problem at any distance ;D :thumbsup:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21716908/Tern_small.jpg)
Irrelevant to the OP, but how are you finding it? For my part, I still love Chutney my Speed Pro TT. 7 miles stretch into Whitstable at 17.5 mph average on Saturday morning. With two laden panniers :)
Hmm quite like the idea of drops. What's the fold like with those bars?
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Not good. They kind of stick out :D
Curiously, none of the official Tern pictures emphasise that ;), but the shot from above of the folded bike in this review (http://www.thewashingmachinepost.net/tern/verge/review.html) shows you.
Happily, on our line, staff and passengers are pretty tolerant, to the point that some people get standard road bikes on with wheels removed for transit. I think that's pushing it. I use my Dahon Vitesse for regular commuting, and the Tern on days when I feel like riding home.
For air flight or whatever, in a (large) suitcase, I think I'd remove the bars. Anyone know a good source of cheap, very big, strong suitcases?
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....So my question is - does anyone have a folder they would be happy to ride 16 miles on, including some very bad road surfaces and one big hill? I've thought bigger wheels might be the way to go, or different bars so I'm not sitting so upright? But open to any suggestions!
I've used my 2013 Brompton S6L-X on my 17 mile commute for 2 years; I have since moved and just walk to my job now.
My route has some(?!) potholes(New York City, you know?) and a few hills. 16 inch wheels/349 ETRO. This S type has flat
bars and put me in a slightly leaned posture. Brompton also sells a P type handle bar with a lower(sporty) and higher(cruising)
positions.
100 mile/160 km. charity ride:
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5552/14994268348_32e1ecf7b1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oQZxA5)100 Miles(160 Km.) on a Brompton (https://flic.kr/p/oQZxA5) by 1nterceptor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/44332608@N03/), on Flickr
One of the hills on my route; more than half of the cyclists that go this way end up walking their bike.
The person I'm passing at the 13 minute mark is actually pushing her bike; hard to see with the light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AT6wI_J2MI&index=21&list=UUHyRS8bRu6zPoymgKaIoDLA
Here I'm passing a few riders on roadbikes on another steep hill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROYHoXiJNOM&list=UUHyRS8bRu6zPoymgKaIoDLA&index=14
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I have seen a Teman Urban (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=teman+urban&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&) dropped-bar folder around Kings Cross a couple of times. It's not a brand I know anything about, and the examples I can find are straight-bar ones on Gumtree, so maybe it's an owner adaptation.
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My Dahon is pretty comfortable (Speed 7), but I do have problems with riding flat bars for any distance, especially with small wheels. I don't like to do more than 10 miles on the folder.
I find the ride on the 20" wheels of the Dahon a lot better than the Brompton, but the Brommie does fold smaller. That said, however, I commute on busy London trains, and find the best method for getting it out of the way is to put it in the bike space, and fold the bars down, so it's pretty much flat against the wall.
On the subject of drop bars, I agree that they would be preferable, but spoil the fold. However, bullhorns could be folded to point in line with the stem and not interfere with the fold. I believe this is the case with the Speed TR.
Most comfortable folder IME is an Airnimal Chameleon, but it is an awkward fold. Smallest usable one is the Brompton. Best compromise (I think) is the Dahon.
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I'd pretty-much agree with that. The Dahon Vitesse 7 (same as a Speed 7 but with a French-sounding name, as far as I know) is good compromise for a folder, but I too have found its straight bars hard on the wrists. Hence the second folder for days when I can plan to ride home.
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All this is very interesting. I had a Dahon Speed D7, and it rode like an absolute pig, would never stay in gear properly and squeaked and rattled so much I barely used it. In the end I sold it to someone on here (sorry!) as I think the only cure for the gearing issues was going to be to covert it to a single speed.
But maybe it was a real Friday afternoon bike and I should give them another try? I couldn't have imagined riding 10 miles on my old D7. The Dahon Curve is a good bike but not for a long commute. It's ideal fro a bike-train commute though and does ride well on flat roads with no wind.
Bullhorns for flat bars are a good thought, I like that idea.
Think I need to go and look at some actual bikes!
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Bullhorns for flat bars are a good thought, I like that idea.
Or even just stubby bar-ends greatly improve the experience without compromising the fold. I have Ergon GP2s on my Brompton.
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i've set up my folding bike the same way as the full-sized bike, so the distance is not an issue, only a little less efficient and slower. drop bars make the bike comfy, but less compact (which is not an issue in my case).
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Not good. They kind of stick out :D
Curiously, none of the official Tern pictures emphasise that ;), but the shot from above of the folded bike in this review (http://www.thewashingmachinepost.net/tern/verge/review.html) shows you.
Happily, on our line, staff and passengers are pretty tolerant, to the point that some people get standard road bikes on with wheels removed for transit. I think that's pushing it. I use my Dahon Vitesse for regular commuting, and the Tern on days when I feel like riding home.
For air flight or whatever, in a (large) suitcase, I think I'd remove the bars. Anyone know a good source of cheap, very big, strong suitcases?
A little off original topic - but from time to time I travel on business and I have an Airnimal Chameleon that I use when I can in parts foreign. Last week I was in Basel and used it for a trip up the Hochblauen in the Black Forest - 76km round trip with a feature hill 7.6km at 8.7% in pretty much the same time as I would do on a standard road bike. I bought with a custom designed Delsey suitcase which travels as a hold bag and the weight (even for my large frame) with a helmet, shoes, mini track pump, other accesories and one set of kit comes to 20.5kg which just meets the Easyjet criteria for avoiding excess baggage. Last year I did a couple of North American perms on this set up, so 300 miles over two days, with a large bum bag to carry rations/etc. I would highly recommend it for other people in my situation. But I wouldn't carry the suitcase as a spare for a commuting bike. My Swiss trip invovled trains from Basingstoke - Solihull, Zurich to Basel, and then Gatwick - Chichester to fit in with my other commitments, which was a lot of lugging. However, the view of the Alps 200km south of the Hochblauen made up for it.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hochblauen+images&view=detailv2&id=A7B6613E872D81C4BCF484658ED929B103FD9911&selectedindex=17&ccid=MrnTaNVE&simid=608039539150685180&thid=OIP.M32b9d368d5445e96e1d83fa20e569994o0&mode=overlay&first=1
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All this is very interesting. I had a Dahon Speed D7, and it rode like an absolute pig, would never stay in gear properly and squeaked and rattled so much I barely used it. In the end I sold it to someone on here (sorry!) as I think the only cure for the gearing issues was going to be to covert it to a single speed.
But maybe it was a real Friday afternoon bike and I should give them another try? I couldn't have imagined riding 10 miles on my old D7. The Dahon Curve is a good bike but not for a long commute. It's ideal fro a bike-train commute though and does ride well on flat roads with no wind.
Bullhorns for flat bars are a good thought, I like that idea.
Think I need to go and look at some actual bikes!
As above, my Dahon Vitesse 7 rides well. I have added normal MTB-type bar extensions for the reasons above.
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Brompton. c.30 miles quite happily altho' it doesn't fit me, needs to be a bit bigger. It's not what I would call a hill climber, too bouncy for one thing.
I did used to commute on it but not as far.
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A little off original topic - but from time to time I travel on business and I have an Airnimal Chameleon that I use when I can in parts foreign. Last week I was in Basel and used it for a trip up the Hochblauen in the Black Forest - 76km round trip with a feature hill 7.6km at 8.7% in pretty much the same time as I would do on a standard road bike.
Yep, once I put 28mm tyres on mine if was pretty much like my 653 race bike. In fact on longer rides I think the Airnimal was faster as the suspension at the rear took a lot of road road buzz away so felt comfortabler at the end of the day. And when I turned it into a single speed it was very sweet.
In terms of climbing it got me around old style AAA audaxes fine.
Fold ain't as fast or small as a Brommie (well, it's not meant to be is it), but I did use to fold it twice a week on the railway platform to get home on busy trains - it was perfectly liveable with. Might consider having another but the price puts me off, plus I got through four of the old style frames which put me off a bit!
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Fold ain't as fast or small as a Brommie (well, it's not meant to be is it), but I did use to fold it twice a week on the railway platform to get home on busy trains - it was perfectly liveable with. Might consider having another but the price puts me off, plus I got through four of the old style frames which put me off a bit!
You're a braver man than me - I gave up after the third frame breakage.
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The airnimal chameleon is new to me, but watching a couple of their youtube videos, it appears that the folding needed to make it fit in a hard case is pretty much the same as disassembly. Given this, and the compromises that come from a frame design like that wouldn't it just be simpler to use an S&S coupled full size bike?
J
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The fold I used for the train just required the front wheel be removed, then the bars were turned, the rear triangle folded under and the seat thing folded forward. The front wheel was then toe-strapped to the rest of it. Sounds like a faff but wasn't really that bad. The finished article was about the same length/width as my folded Tern, but was a tad taller IIRC. But as it required handling the front wheel, it paid to keep the bike clean.