So, a Brompton...

[menthel]

Chatting to the wife it would seem that the consensus is that a Brompton would be a suitable bike for family rides. We can sling two in the car along with the boy's bike. It can ride on most sensible surfaces and can carry bits and pieces on a rack/bag.

However, going out on the wife's S3 with rack I have some concerns. It seems overgeared for one. The bottom gear seems spinny until you hit a decent incline and/or a poor surface. How much does the -12% gearing change affect the hill climbing ability and also the top gear? I pushed up to 36km/h but didn't feel overgeared at the top. I also have a concern about when the going get rougher- the small wheels make the bike skittish on rougher surfaces. I think that I can concede that going across wimbledon common was a step too far, despite it being a designated cycle path but the Tamsin trail was not entirely fun, despite it being relatively well surfaced.

So, what can be done with a Brompton? Am I overthinking this? Will it be a good bike for those family days out along cycle paths etc as the boy grows up?

[hellymedic]

Well, when I was young and fit, I:
Did the 100km Gridiron ride and frequently took 10kg of groceries uphill off-road 2 miles home on my Brompton.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Fit bar ends and lower the front tyre pressure a bit. They ride better with some weight in the front bag.

[Kim]

Bromptons do tend to be overgeard by default IMHO (though I'd say this about most bikes).  The poor aerodynamics and rolling resistance of small wheels mean that you don't tend to spend much time at high speeds on them anyway, so there's little to be lost by lowering the gearing overall.  Obviously your gearing choices are likely to be influenced by whether you're using clipless pedals or not.

The six speed gives you a wider range, and if that's not enough and you really want to throw money at the problem, you can retrofit a Sturmey Archer 8-speed, Shimano Alfine or Rohloff hub...

Small wheels are always going to be a weak point on crap surfaces.  They're bad enough on chip-seal, and really suffer on typical Sutrans offerings.  If that's the remit, I'd suggest a 20" wheeled folder (Dahon or similar) would be a real improvement, handling-wise, if not as clever at folding.  I'd also suggest that Brompton brakes aren't overly keen on mud.

Agreed that the Brommie feels better with a bit of luggage on the front, and that they're surprisingly capable bikes overall.  I'd rather use a more appropriate bike if I were going off-road or riding more than about 50km, but the great advantage of the Brompton is that you can have it with you when another bike wouldn't be an option.  That said, the manoeuvrability and acceleration mean that it's my preferred^[1] bike for city traffic.


_{[1] Or would be if it wasn't a magnet for motorised muppetry.  I get more close passes and SMIDSYIJDGAFs on the Brompton than I do on any of my other bikes.}

[Biggsy]

Of course the Brompton isn't ideal in every way, but never mind if it's all your car has room for.  Even mine with smaller than the standard tyres isn't tooooo bad on crappy cycle tracks for short distances.  But don't necessarily avoid the Firm suspension block, which actually doesn't feel firm (except perhaps to the lightest riders).

Consider the 6-speed Lowered option, for its bottom gear and the steps between gears.  An 8-speed hub will be more convenient than the 3-speed with two sprockets, but it may not be as efficient.  Any thinking about the top gear is overthinking.  It's that unimportant, unless you're aiming to be Brompton World Champion!

[Jurek]

Small wheels are always going to be a weak point on crap surfaces.  .......

That's a relief to hear.
I was thinking that I'd turned into a wuss.
There's a bit of unadopted roadway on the way to my mum's.
It is rideable (just) on 23s.
On a Brommie it is a walker
+1 to fitting bar ends.
Gears I cannot help with. I have 2. Londres is (for the most part) flat.

[menthel]

Thanks all. I suspect a brommie is the way forward but may make a trip to Evans tomorrow to poke some bikes.

[rogerzilla]

The -12% option is pretty much obligatory unless you live somewhere where they iron the roads flat and always have a tailwind.  If you already have a standard Brompton, a 14T sprocket and an extra link of chain drops the gearing by about 7% at minimal cost.

A Brompton is a very, very expensive bike just for pootling with the family.  They're built for daily use where you really must fold the bike to fit it on public transport, although I know someone who bought a Brommie just because he has a small flat and nowhere to store a normal bike.

if you're over 5'8" you will probably need the extended seatpost.  This makes the folded size bigger but it's better than pedalling on a saddle that's two inches too low.

[Kim]

They're built for daily use where you really must fold the bike to fit it on public transport, although I know someone who bought a Brommie just because he has a small flat and nowhere to store a normal bike.

That seems like a pretty good reason as well, especially if stairs or silly corridors are involved.  The Brompton's ability to stay folded is a significant advantage over less well-designed folders when it comes to being lugged about.

And of course you can neatly avoid all sorts of security issues by folding it up and keeping it by your side.  That can be worthwhile even if you never go near a train.

[Tewdric]

I specified the -18% option And it's about right for general use, although I have an upright H model not a go faster S.  Other essentials are Marathon tyres, hard suspension, EZ wheels instead of the nylon rollers and the Brompton rear light replacing the reflector. The front bag is cool although I prefer a courier bag on the brommie.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Horses for course. Our Brommies run the stock 6sp gearing and tyres but the hard block and EZ-wheels. The front bag system is a major advantage over competitors.

[Kim]

Other essentials are Marathon tyres

Certainly sounds like a good choice for the OP, though I seem to be doing okay fairy-wise with the slightly lighter/faster rolling Brompton Greens, in spite of using the cycle contraflow on Hurst Street^[1] several times.

hard suspension, EZ wheels instead of the nylon rollers and the Brompton rear light replacing the reflector. The front bag is cool although I prefer a courier bag on the brommie.

Agreed about those.  I'd generally recommend getting the front luggage block anyway, as it's cheaper than fitting one later and doesn't get in the way or make the bike appreciably heavier.  Bags can be had second-hand at less eye-watering prices if you're patient.


_{[1] A sort of shared-use bottle bank / taxi rank for Birmingham's gay scene.}

[Zipperhead]

I think that I can concede that going across wimbledon common was a step too far, despite it being a designated cycle path but the Tamsin trail was not entirely fun, despite it being relatively well surfaced.

If you were going across Wimbledon Common, then you can't be too far from me, so you're welcome to come and try mine with the 12% lowered gearing.

[menthel]

I think that I can concede that going across wimbledon common was a step too far, despite it being a designated cycle path but the Tamsin trail was not entirely fun, despite it being relatively well surfaced.

If you were going across Wimbledon Common, then you can't be too far from me, so you're welcome to come and try mine with the 12% lowered gearing.

Thanks- I am over in Raynes Park. I need to go and look at the options I think but comparing the gearing would be useful.

[sg37409]

I got 3 speed, -12 % and kojak tyres.  It rolls along really nicely and handles broken surfaces fine. Theyre worst on chip-seal roads but even this is OK for me as Im not in a hurry if Im on it.
On the flat I'm in 3rd gear. 1st is only ever used on steeper climbs. If I had bar-ends Id get up some of them in 2nd, but Im not used to the flex I feel on the bars yet.

I also got firm suspension block and f.bag. (no EZwheels)

[rogerzilla]

The eazy wheels are more about calf clearance for me.  The standard rollers literally flayed the skin from my legs.  It took months to heal.

[Kim]

The eazy wheels are more about calf clearance for me.  The standard rollers literally flayed the skin from my legs.  It took months to heal.

I managed to end up with an easy wheel tucking into my shoe alongside my ankle at one point (while using flat pedals).  No injury, but it was more than a little distracting.

I find the easy wheels are useful for not having to carry the folded bike any real distance, and occasionally for trolleying the bike+bag package around.   They're not worth not having, IMHO.

[Biggsy]

The Eazy wheels are even better with the rack, when using the London Tube, but you won't need the rack for your described uses, Menthel.

Build and save your Brompton options online to enter a competition to win it!  www.brompton.com/Buy/Build-your-Brompton (no purchase necessary to enter).

The prices are shocking, but to make up for it (psychologically), the bike could last for the rest of your life*, and will hold its value well should you ever need to sell.  As long as it's affordable, the only good reason to NOT buy a Brompton, IMO, would be if you can manage a bike with bigger wheels, eg. a Dahon.  As much as I'm Brommie fanboy, there's no denying that the very small wheels hold back the ride quality.

* Depending on mileage and storage conditions.  The titanium option helps.

[Kim]

The Eazy wheels are even better with the rack, when using the London Tube, but you won't need the rack for your described uses, Menthel.

Yes.  The rack is a fairly suboptimal way of carrying luggage - best used after the bag on the front block is full - and is mainly about easy wheel performance (including the first-stage fold as a propstand trick), stability when folded, sensible light mounting and mudguard protection.  It's too low for panniers (even 'front' ones), so you're limited to racktop bags and whatever you can strap on with the bungees.

[rogerzilla]

There are two main failure modes for the frame components (the main tube used to, rarely, crack near the hinge but that was all sorted when they went LWB):

1. Rusting through of rear triangle.  Pump Waxoyl into the  open-ended tubes and the brake bridge, on a very hot day.
2. Stretching/ovalisation of the lower head tube, causing a loose lower headset cup.  Can generally be bodged with strong Loctite - I used #660 - but after that, you really need a new main frame.

You effectively get a Brompton free and only lose the interest on the purchase price, since one that is bought new and looked after will, it has been frequently observed, maintain its original sticker price.  Whether this continues when the new price (which has been escalating shamefully given the relatively flat labour costs and zero inflation) hits the £1000 bike-to-work limit and stalls, I don't know.  I would wager that a huge proportion of UK-bought Bromptons are bought on the scheme.

As Biggsy says, the titanium ones don't suffer the first fault.  You could run a steel one until the rear triangle goes OR it needs the rear hinge refurbishing (these tend to get sloppy after about 5 years if used daily; probably never on a weekend pootling bike), and then buy the titanium rear triangle.  It saves half a pound of weight although it's rather pricey and you can no longer carry the pump on the bike.

[Jurek]

There are two main failure modes for the frame components (the main tube used to, rarely, crack near the hinge but that was all sorted when they went LWB):

1. Rusting through of rear triangle.  Pump Waxoyl into the  open-ended tubes and the brake bridge, on a very hot day.
2. Stretching/ovalisation of the lower head tube, causing a loose lower headset cup.  Can generally be bodged with strong Loctite - I used #660 - but after that, you really need a new main frame.

You effectively get a Brompton free and only lose the interest on the purchase price, since one that is bought new and looked after will, it has been frequently observed, maintain its original sticker price.  Whether this continues when the new price (which has been escalating shamefully given the relatively flat labour costs and zero inflation) hits the £1000 bike-to-work limit and stalls, I don't know.  I would wager that a huge proportion of UK-bought Bromptons are bought on the scheme.

As Biggsy says, the titanium ones don't suffer the first fault.  You could run a steel one until the rear triangle goes OR it needs the rear hinge refurbishing (these tend to get sloppy after about 5 years if used daily; probably never on a weekend pootling bike), and then buy the titanium rear triangle.  It saves half a pound of weight although it's rather pricey and you can no longer carry the pump on the bike.

If mine needs a pump, it is going into the boot of a taxi 

[delthebike]

If mine needs a pump, it is going into the boot of a taxi 

Think you're Cameron? Having a car carry minor things while you swan around on your bike! 

[Kim]

Having squandered my money on a Brompton, I can't afford taxis, so the pump stays.  As does the CO2 inflator that lurks at the bottom of my C-bag, because the Brompton pump is feeble.

[Jurek]

If mine needs a pump, it is going into the boot of a taxi 

Think you're Cameron? Having a car carry minor things while you swan around on your bike! 

Now, that idea, I really like

[menthel]

Lots to take in everyone, thanks!