[HAMR] Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)

[Wowbagger]

I thought Steve's only concern was with beating Tommy Godwin's year record. Any competition from others was a side-show, as far as he was concerned.

Is that right? That beating Godwin's record is not only his primary goal, but that he won't be bothered if having done so, he loses it again a week later?

Actually, I don't think Steve would be remotely bothered if he held the record only for a short time. From a psychological point of view, I try to put myself in Steve's position and I don't think I would either. I would take a lot of satisfaction that, firstly, I had broken the record and secondly, that my spadework had motivated an even stronger cyclist to have a crack at the record, and that a set of rules had become established by which future attempts could be made.

What would piss me off greatly is if I had beaten Tommy only to find that some other guy, albeit a monster cyclist himself, had used my ride as a pacemaker, accelerating in the last couple of weeks of 2015, and thereby depriving me of the record. I'm pretty sure Steve is a better person than I am so he may not be bothered by this.

Many moons ago, there was a long distance runner by the name of Dave Bedford. (*googles*). Thought so. 10,000 metres was his speciality and he held the World Record. His big trouble was that he had no sprint finish and all the other buggers used him as a pacemaker, leaving him well behind in the final lap. If he set a fast enough pace, he could break lesser athletes on the way round but it didn't happen in the big events.

Obviously, Tarzan is not there physically, riding just at Steve's right shoulder, but it does give a similar impression. Within the rules, of course, but when we support Sportsman A in favour of Sportsman B, it's not normally their exploits in the sport itself which attracts us to them because they are often very hard to separate (I can't remember which cricketer/commentator coined the phrase about the world's best batsman at any one time: "You can't normally separate the top six"). It's usually something else.

Edit: I have a suspicion that if Tommy were here to ask, he would be disappointed that no-one had had a crack until now. It was a lovely touch that his children sent Steve such an encouraging message.

[red marley]

I was once overtaken by a professional Italian team motorpaced-training behind a large car. The front rider must have been within a metre of the vehicle, doing maybe 50 km/h. Requires extreme concentration I'd have thought, and not something to do for very long stretches. That video link upthread seems to be about the support van finding Kurt rather than pacing him as such.

[Von Broad]

I was once overtaken by a professional Italian team motorpaced-training behind a large car. The front rider must have been within a metre of the vehicle, doing maybe 50 km/h. Requires extreme concentration I'd have thought, and not something to do for very long stretches.

Jan Ullrich tells a story about that, ISTM. Although wasn't that because his team car had to brake unexpectedly?

That video link upthread seems to be about the support van finding Kurt rather than pacing him as such.

Bringing us back to the subject of the thread.

[Otto]

slipstreaming monkey

Well, he talks highly of you too, but can you imagine what it might be like to try and sit behind a van all day, and not see what's in front of you?
Can't we give this guy a break until there's reason to knock?

Lol sorry... Couldn't resist the joke, I'm like Chicken as Nadler in the episode of. Friends when he is challenged not to be sarcastic fora day..... impossible

[simonp]

How did autocorrect get from Chandler to Chicken as Nadler? Or was that deliberate?

[Otto]

How did autocorrect get from Chandler to Chicken as Nadler? Or was that deliberate?

LMAO... DAMN YOU AUTO CORRECT....

[Von Broad]

slipstreaming monkey

Well, he talks highly of you too, but can you imagine what it might be like to try and sit behind a van all day, and not see what's in front of you?
Can't we give this guy a break until there's reason to knock?

Lol sorry... Couldn't resist the joke, I'm like Chicken as Nadler in the episode of. Friends when he is challenged not to be sarcastic fora day..... impossible

Hey, no problem, no bad feeling. I just slapped the first bad interpretation on it I could find.
History has taught me not to get 'drawn into the internet' !
For the most part I do ok these days, but not always   

[Pale Rider]

I find it most unlikely Steve will derive any satisfaction from holding the record for a couple of weeks.

Quite the reverse, he will be mightily hacked off to have all that effort effectively wiped out so soon.

What he will think is Tarzan is just another obstacle to overcome.

Of course, it's all supposition.

The only way to find out what Steve thinks is to ask Steve.

[Von Broad]

What would piss me off greatly is if I had beaten Tommy only to find that some other guy, albeit a monster cyclist himself, had used my ride as a pacemaker, accelerating in the last couple of weeks of 2015, and thereby depriving me of the record. I'm pretty sure Steve is a better person than I am so he may not be bothered by this.

Surely the main pacemaker for both of them is Tommy.  75,000 into 365 gives you 205 - miles a day. Everyday. That's the benchmark. That's what they both have to do, or an average of, over the duration to beat the record. You make it sound like Kurt has the advantage [certainly does as regards weather at the moment, that's for sure], and all he has to do is do a little more than TG each day, using him as a pacemaker, only to career past him at the end to take all the glory. However you do it, whoever you may be watching on the other side of the water riding as well, regardless of what they do, you still have to do ALL the miles yourself. And it's a lot of 'em. And you have no way of knowing if you're going to be able to ride every day for a year. On that front, you need a good dose of fortune too.

[LMT]

I wonder if Steve, if given the opportunity, would he be over in Florida right now with it's weather and flatlands? I'd say yes.

Primary objective is to do the most amount of miles - end of. Comparing miles with x amount of feet, motorpacing and everything is just sour grapes imo.

For the record I think Steve will do it. Once the Summer months hit I can easily see him cranking out 300-320 miles and I cannot see Kurt keeping up.
 

[Mr Larrington]

I was once overtaken by a professional Italian team motorpaced-training behind a large car. The front rider must have been within a metre of the vehicle, doing maybe 50 km/h. Requires extreme concentration I'd have thought, and not something to do for very long stretches.

Jan Ullrich tells a story about that, ISTM. Although wasn't that because his team car had to brake unexpectedly?

Opinions vary.  The one I heard was that Ullrich had spotted a CAIK on the back seat.

[hillbilly]

slipstreaming monkey

Any evidence he's riding behind the van rather than in front of it? Certainly the sign suggests the van will slipstreaming Kurt rather than the other way around.

No there isn't.  From videos on their FB page, it is a support van that catches Kurt at junctions to give him food, support etc.

It's a bit disrespectful to imply that he is slipstreaming a vehicle.  This guy may have the weather and terrain, but that doesn't make him a cheat. 

[hillbilly]

Relying on a support vehicle comes with its own risks.  It's absolutely an advantage in this race whilst it is working smoothly, as Kurt basically just needs to pedal and eat.  But if his relationship with his partner breaks due to the strain of the challenge (and fingers crossed it doesn't) then he will be stranded and his challenge will come to an end.  Takes a great deal of faith in the strength of a relationship to put that much trust in another.

[IanDG]

slipstreaming monkey

Any evidence he's riding behind the van rather than in front of it? Certainly the sign suggests the van will slipstreaming Kurt rather than the other way around.

No there isn't.  From videos on their FB page, it is a support van that catches Kurt at junctions to give him food, support etc.

It's a bit disrespectful to imply that he is slipstreaming a vehicle.  This guy may have the weather and terrain, but that doesn't make him a cheat. 

Exactly, it's a support vehicle not a pacing vehicle.

[paul851]

A quote from Chris Hopkinson on Strava

Don't agree neccessarily Christian. Both attempts have different challenges that overall equal themselves out. Take that from the Brit that has raced more in the States than any other ever! Weather worse here at the mo 1 day ago

[mcshroom]

slipstreaming monkey

Any evidence he's riding behind the van rather than in front of it? Certainly the sign suggests the van will slipstreaming Kurt rather than the other way around.

No there isn't.  From videos on their FB page, it is a support van that catches Kurt at junctions to give him food, support etc.

It's a bit disrespectful to imply that he is slipstreaming a vehicle.  This guy may have the weather and terrain, but that doesn't make him a cheat. 

Exactly, it's a support vehicle not a pacing vehicle.

Also Steve had a following car for the end of yesterday's ride (ok Hoppo brought his own )

[Lars]

Regarding Kurt being a top ten RAAM finisher. How might a very strong Audaxer like Steve do in a race like that?

As far as I've read Steve doesn't race a lot. Good results in 24h British TTs, but a bit off the very top finishers. But
with the ability to crank out long steady rides consistently with what seems like amazingly little rest.

Would Steve be mid-field finisher in RAAM if he'd choose to enter and get a good support team? Just curious since
know very little about ultra racing and the people who tend to excel in them.

[Otto]

slipstreaming monkey

Any evidence he's riding behind the van rather than in front of it? Certainly the sign suggests the van will slipstreaming Kurt rather than the other way around.

No there isn't.  From videos on their FB page, it is a support van that catches Kurt at junctions to give him food, support etc.

It's a bit disrespectful to imply that he is slipstreaming a vehicle.  This guy may have the weather and terrain, but that doesn't make him a cheat.
[/q
No disrespect intended ... it was a joke..... I'll fetch my coat

[mattc]

slipstreaming monkey

Any evidence he's riding behind the van rather than in front of it? Certainly the sign suggests the van will slipstreaming Kurt rather than the other way around.

No there isn't.  From videos on their FB page, it is a support van that catches Kurt at junctions to give him food, support etc.

It's a bit disrespectful to imply that he is slipstreaming a vehicle.  This guy may have the weather and terrain, but that doesn't make him a cheat.

No disrespect intended ... it was a joke..... I'll fetch my coat

Dont' worry - when I read it I guffawed.

Then I read the enraged replies, and started to doubt my interpretation ...

[hillbilly]

Slipstreaming monkey 

[Wowbagger]

Regarding Kurt being a top ten RAAM finisher. How might a very strong Audaxer like Steve do in a race like that?

As far as I've read Steve doesn't race a lot. Good results in 24h British TTs, but a bit off the very top finishers. But
with the ability to crank out long steady rides consistently with what seems like amazingly little rest.

Would Steve be mid-field finisher in RAAM if he'd choose to enter and get a good support team? Just curious since
know very little about ultra racing and the people who tend to excel in them.

Steve has talked/written about the temptation to do RAAM, but I think that finances and time have always prevented him. I think there's no way of knowing how he would get on. He has ridden in the US, in very hot weather, which I believe is always likely to be a problem with that race, but as a tourist.

@LMT: I wouldn't want to predict at this early stage what will happen. I would say that, of all the cyclists I have ever met, if I were to pick one to beat Tommy it would be Steve.

In sporting parlance, commentators and punters talk about "wanting it more". As Steve said in his C4 interview, he's thought about this since he was 15 and he was "scared" of it. He wants it and has done so for a quarter of a century. I think Kurt has thought about it for about 2 months. Notwithstanding their relative strengths and abilities as cyclists, I reckon that attitude counts for a lot. I think it also fits in well with the type of cyclist Steve is: he's very good at setting himself a long goal and working towards that. I have no idea whether such a long-term goal will fit in well with Kurt's normal approach to cycling. Only time will tell.

[hillbilly]

For all we know, Kurt could have a scrapbook wherein he has logged his meticulous progress towards Tommy's record. 

Just about everything on this forum about him is speculation and supposition.  He's an unknown quantity to us mere mortals.  Steve is, however, lucky that he will have some insight from Hoppo, who will have raced Tarzan in the States.  That will be useful intel for Steve.

As things stand, Kurt is consistently riding further than Steve (given the terrain and climate difference this is hardly a surprise).  It's an unfortunate fact which will hopefully turn come the summer.  I believe Steve's team anticipated this would be the case, so it wouldn't surpise me if Hoppo's intel is along the lines of "don't worry, he will struggle to maintain more than x miles a day for extended periods, you'll claw those back".  Fingers crossed that's how it pans out.

The other thing that will be interesting is whether Kurt will effectively lose days when he transitions from one location to another.  The States is huge, particularly if driving.  I'm guessing he'll ride to the start of races, but he won't have as much daily control of the route he takes or where he stops.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Kurt and Steve exchanged various emails before the attempt started. Steve knows enough about him. Kurt was always going to be quicker from the gun.

By the way, there is no UMCA prohibition against drafting for this record. Kurt could spend weeks riding behind his motorhome, a motorbike or a HGV, provided the local police don't notice.

[hillbilly]

You can draft behind a non cyclist?  That seems a bit lax, but what do I know, I'm not an ultra racer. Given the aerodynamic advantage that would give, would make a mockery of the record.  I'd struggle to applaud a record set with that assistance.

[IanDG]

Kurt and Steve exchanged various emails before the attempt started. Steve knows enough about him. Kurt was always going to be quicker from the gun.

By the way, there is no UMCA prohibition against drafting for this record. Kurt could spend weeks riding behind his motorhome, a motorbike or a HGV, provided the local police don't notice.

Surely drafting refers to other cyclists who may be accompanying on parts of the ride as opposed to motor pacing?