Author Topic: [HAMR] Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)  (Read 450519 times)

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #800 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:05:16 pm »
IMHO it's slightly taking the mickey to use a type of machine which was not used in the original challenge.

I suspect Godwin didn't use disc brakes, tubeless tyres, a GPS, or a heart monitor either. He didn't even use sausages.. It's clearly not going to be an equal contest on equipment between now and then.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #801 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:05:41 pm »
It is a cycling challenge.  Not who is the hardest rider.

It is a cycling challenge but it should be entered on as much a like-for-like basis as possible. Granted, both riders live a few thousand miles apart.

I spent a good few miles this morning musing on whether it was an even contest if one rider uses a recumbent to save his legs and backside, while the other grins and bears it and just gets on with the job. I know who has my respect.

As far as I'm aware Godwin didn't ride a recumbent anyway, so IMHO it's slightly taking the mickey to use a type of machine which was not used in the original challenge.
Absolutely agree.  The rules are flawed as far as I'm concerned.
DJR (Dave Russell) now retired. Carbon Beone parts bin special retired to turbo trainer, Brompton broken, as was I, Whyte Suffolk dismantled and sold. Now have Mason Definition and Orbea M20i.

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #802 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:08:47 pm »
Whilst I happen to agree about the "worth" of using anything but an upright bicycle, at the end of the day The UMCA permit use of the dark side of the force.

Everyone is free to make a value judgement.  But what I see at the moment are a lot of people ragging on Kurt because he isn't Steve. 

Kurt is doing better than Steve and at the moment looks favourite to win the UMCA race.  I still think Steve can do it, and hope he does, but those 20 miles or so a day that Tarzan is laying into Steve add up. No amount of bleating about relative conditions or values will change what will go in the history books.  Only supreme effort and determination, and some good fortune, will.

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #803 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:11:09 pm »
Bear in mind that Steve agreed the rules.  Flawed they may be, but they are how the challenge has been framed.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #804 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:16:16 pm »
The lorry speed limit was 30mph after 1930. I understood that cyclists were known to linger on hilltops to catch a draft into nasty headwinds.

A lot of heavily-laden lorries would have had trouble making 30mph back in those days. Casual drafting would have been entirely possible, just from passing traffic.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #805 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:16:55 pm »
As far as I'm aware Godwin didn't ride a recumbent anyway, so IMHO it's slightly taking the mickey to use a type of machine which was not used in the original challenge.

Yeah, but though....although logistically it would have been quite an undertaking, Steve, had he wanted to, could have easily transferred to somewhere warmer in France [plenty of flat [as well as hilly] terrain over there] and ridden a lightweight recumbent. But I'd bet any money that he wouldn't have been in the slightest bit interested in doing so. It's just not what he knows. It's outside his normal frame of reference. But it should be made clear that the option was always available to him. Kurt's just decided to ride one [having ridden little dark side before by the looks of it].
Garry Broad

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #806 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:18:46 pm »
Just to get some more practical things about this debate, if Steve decides to ride north after PBP I'm willing to assist in drumming up local support. A ride from Paris to Hoek van Holland and the night ferry back should give him as much miles as flying home directly after PBP.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #807 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:26:09 pm »
Bear in mind that Steve agreed the rules.  Flawed they may be, but they are how the challenge has been framed.
:-*
DJR (Dave Russell) now retired. Carbon Beone parts bin special retired to turbo trainer, Brompton broken, as was I, Whyte Suffolk dismantled and sold. Now have Mason Definition and Orbea M20i.

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #808 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:28:24 pm »
Just to get some more practical things about this debate, if Steve decides to ride north after PBP I'm willing to assist in drumming up local support. A ride from Paris to Hoek van Holland and the night ferry back should give him as much miles as flying home directly after PBP.

Make him do an anticlockwise lap of the IJsselmeer as well for some bonus flat miles :thumbsup:.
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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #809 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:49:22 pm »
Whilst I happen to agree about the "worth" of using anything but an upright bicycle, at the end of the day The UMCA permit use of the dark side of the force.

Everyone is free to make a value judgement.  But what I see at the moment are a lot of people ragging on Kurt because he isn't Steve. 

Kurt is doing better than Steve and at the moment looks favourite to win the UMCA race.  I still think Steve can do it, and hope he does, but those 20 miles or so a day that Tarzan is laying into Steve add up. No amount of bleating about relative conditions or values will change what will go in the history books.  Only supreme effort and determination, and some good fortune, will.

Hmmm.  I think it will be decided by who can keep going.  Things like muscles, sores, arguments, man-flu, weather events, crashes etc are likely to have more impact than a period of good mileage

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #810 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:50:01 pm »
The lorry speed limit was 30mph after 1930. I understood that cyclists were known to linger on hilltops to catch a draft into nasty headwinds.

A lot of heavily-laden lorries would have had trouble making 30mph back in those days. Casual drafting would have been entirely possible, just from passing traffic.

Lorries with an unladen weight over two and a half tons were limited to 20mph until 1957. That was widely ignored by then, but brakes had caught up.
http://www.rchs.org.uk/trial/4-2%20Road%20haulage.pdf

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #811 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:57:42 pm »
It's not the speed of lorries, it's the logistics of tagging on to them along with them sharing your route and plans. I've drafted many things over the years not one of them has consistently gone where I wanted to. The idea that Godwin spent a large proportion of his time behind them is absurd. Maybe the odd few miles when opportunity presents.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #812 on: 01 February, 2015, 09:57:48 pm »
Hmmm.  I think it will be decided by who can keep going.  Things like muscles, sores, arguments, man-flu, weather events, crashes etc are likely to have more impact than a period of good mileage
Yeah, the whole thing forever hangs in the balance for both of them.
Garry Broad

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #813 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:14:12 pm »
Tommy Godwin didn't use clipless pedals either, nor synthetic materials, nor disraeli gears.  Down with this sort of thing!

I trust those who think that using a recumbent is Not Cricket are also against the UCI's decision to allow modern-type bicycles for the Hour record ::-)
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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #814 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:15:01 pm »
It's not the speed of lorries, it's the logistics of tagging on to them along with them sharing your route and plans. I've drafted many things over the years not one of them has consistently gone where I wanted to. The idea that Godwin spent a large proportion of his time behind them is absurd. Maybe the odd few miles when opportunity presents.

The trunk routes were well used, and had lots of transport cafes. A rider is much more likely to encounter lorries when slowed down by a headwind, as the relative speeds are bigger.
I've got a 1950 AA Book of the Road, which has long lists of itineraries, avoiding major towns where possible. I'd be interested to see a 1939 version.

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #815 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:22:36 pm »
Tommy Godwin didn't use clipless pedals either, nor synthetic materials, nor disraeli gears.  Down with this sort of thing!

I trust those who think that using a recumbent is Not Cricket are also against the UCI's decision to allow modern-type bicycles for the Hour record ::-)

Still 'bikes' tho' - the UCI don't allow recumbents for the hour.  Distance records such as the end to end have separate classifications for bicycle (Gethin Butler) and recumbent (Andy Wilkinson) ;)

Would be good to see somebody go for the year record on 'Old Faithful'  ;D

TGS

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #816 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:25:42 pm »
Tommy Godwin didn't use clipless pedals either, nor synthetic materials, nor disraeli gears.  Down with this sort of thing!

I trust those who think that using a recumbent is Not Cricket are also against the UCI's decision to allow modern-type bicycles for the Hour record ::-)

You can use a recumbent to play cricket  ??? and what the hell is the UCI? I thought it was a pharmacy in Paris.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #817 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:25:58 pm »
There's a film of the North Road in 1939 on Youtube, some surprisingly good surfaces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #818 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:29:15 pm »
Hmmm.  I think it will be decided by who can keep going.  Things like muscles, sores, arguments, man-flu, weather events, crashes etc are likely to have more impact than a period of good mileage
Yeah, the whole thing forever hangs in the balance for both of them.

Exactly. That they have both kept going at the rate they have for 32 and 22 days respectively is in itself remarkable. The drastic failure of two of Kurt's bikes in that time is probably just a coincidence, but the Floridian drivers have already inflicted road rash on him. They are both susceptible to wear-and-tear injuries as well.

In a sense, it's like watching a cricket match in which the side batting last has an enormous total to reach on a very dodgy wicket and either batsman could be dismissed at any moment.
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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #819 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:29:56 pm »
My dad, in his racing days (late fifties/early sixties) claims he used to draft wagons at 30 mph+.

Generally, I believe him, though his tale of getting stuck inbetween a wagon and its trailer, and having to hammer on for about ten miles along the A1 with the connecting chain slapping alongside him until he could escape - I always found that a little implausible.

IanDG

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #820 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:30:40 pm »
Tommy Godwin didn't use clipless pedals either, nor synthetic materials, nor disraeli gears.  Down with this sort of thing!

I trust those who think that using a recumbent is Not Cricket are also against the UCI's decision to allow modern-type bicycles for the Hour record ::-)


You can use a recumbent to play cricket  ??? and what the hell is the UCI? I thought it was a pharmacy in Paris.

Not Paris,  it's a pharmacy in Aigle, Switzerland

IanDG

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #821 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:34:21 pm »
My dad, in his racing days (late fifties/early sixties) claims he used to draft wagons at 30 mph+.

Generally, I believe him, though his tale of getting stuck inbetween a wagon and its trailer, and having to hammer on for about ten miles along the A1 with the connecting chain slapping alongside him until he could escape - I always found that a little implausible.

I used to draft lorries and vans when out training in the 70s. The reasons why TT courses on the A1 ('Boro') was because of the drag from motor vehicles.

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #822 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:40:48 pm »
I would imagine banning recumbents was considered impractical, as it would be very difficult to monitor reliably.  It surprised me that the UMCA didn't try to do so, however, given they run RAAM and that (aiui) forbids bewheeled hammocks.

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #823 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:42:45 pm »
There are recumbent categories in RAAM.
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IanDG

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #824 on: 01 February, 2015, 10:44:21 pm »
There are recumbent categories in RAAM.

I have no problem with categories.