Author Topic: Road positioning advice  (Read 2178 times)

Julian

  • samoture
Road positioning advice
« on: 22 June, 2010, 01:07:08 pm »
When I pass long lines of stationary traffic on the right, I often find myself on the right hand side of the front car.  If it's in the ASL (or if there isn't an ASL), and because cars have some sort of magnetic attraction which means that in rush hour they sit bumper-to-bumper, leaving no room for me to slip between cars over to the left hand side, I then have to set off from the lights on the right hand side of the cars.

This can cause minor irritation to the motorists, who can now see 10 clear yards ahead of them and want to speed up.  It also means I have to find my way from the right hand side of the lane back to the L-H side, especially where the L-H side turns into a convenient bus lane.

I don't want to try to get up the inside of the traffic when I'm approaching lights if there isn't enough room, especially if there are left turns around, so I can't position myself on the left hand side at the lights.  But when we set off I do then want to get back over to the left hand side so I'm not riding into oncoming traffic..

How do you negotiate this maneouvre, other than waiting for someone to take pity and let you ride over to the l-h side of the lane again?

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #1 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:16:06 pm »
eyeball - indicate - move over. Pray whilst doing so that car in front doesn't jamb on brakes.

tbh, I hate doing this, but sometimes it seems necessary.  I suppose the only alternative is bulling to the front of the foremost car and walking/scooting to in front of their left wing.
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Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #2 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:22:22 pm »
If a car's in the ASL, I go in front of them, bang in the middle of the road..  They've crossed my line so I don't mind crossing theirs.  If I do decide to wait behind and to the right of the first car, I find that I can usually anticipate the lights early enough to slip in front of the second car before it gets started, as the first one moves away (and after indicating while stationary, of course).  Failing that, stick out your arm and hope.

Basil

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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #3 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:28:22 pm »
I pull up alongside the gap between the first and second car, or if it appears to be a better option, alongside the gap between the second and third car.  The gap doesn't have to be big enough to fit in.
As they pull away I more or less attach myself to the rear bumper of the front car and pray it doesn't brake.   I then move left or right depending on the speed.
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citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #4 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:30:04 pm »
If you're confident you can get away from the lights quickly, position yourself directly in front of the first car. (There are places on my regular commuting route where I do this and stay in front of the cars rather than move to the left. I'm happy to do this because I know I'll only have the same problem again 100 yards up the road if I let them pass. Some of them don't like it, but that's their problem. Letting them overtake me wouldn't actually help them get where they're going any quicker.)

Otherwise, wait behind and to the right of the front car,* and as you pull away, filter in ahead of the second car (much like Mr B and Basil describe).

Sometimes, if the road really is clear and the cars are quick out of the blocks, I'll stay out in the middle and wave cars through on the inside until there's a gap for me to filter back across.

d.

[*edit: or, as others have said, the second or third or fourth car, depending on the situation]
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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #5 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:30:20 pm »
In these circumstances I often stop 2 or 3 cars back, but pull up alongside / by the bonnet of / a car which is sitting slightly to the left of the stream of traffic so that I'm actually at the edge of but within the main stream. Eye contact is a must - most people let me in in front of them if I look at them, smile, and point to where I want to go in a friendly way. if I'm blanked I let them undertake but now I'm sitting in front of the car behind who was slightly further out, so I become part of the stream. I can then move further left to position myself where I want.

i'm not a London cyclist though - so maybe provincial motorists are more forgiving (or it may be that my friendly smile is interpreted as a death stare...)

Priddy

  • One of the "wrong sorts"
Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #6 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:30:23 pm »
Most of the time I manage to wiggle my way down the left hand side, all be it a little gingerly as its normally between parked cars and queuing cars.
But on the occasion that I end up going down the right hand side of vehicles, if the lights are still red by the time I get to the front of the queue I do as Mr Bunbury does and scoot across the front of the car swinging my back end round to line up with the curb. however if the lights change, I manage to squeeze in front of a car just before it pulls off. Assuming I know it's not going to hit me.

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #7 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:31:47 pm »
What I try to do is only move down the right where I can see a gap ahead to move back into.  Keep going as long as you can keep spotting gaps further ahead.  To be honest, it's not always easy to make progress sticking to this rigidly.

I do ignore the ASL and avoid going all the way to the front though; you get more time to fix a screwup and get back in.  If the lights change when you're near the front, you don't get much time to fix it.  Further back you might have 5 seconds rather than 2 to slot in...

Panoramix

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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #8 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:34:09 pm »
I behave like a thin car in this kind of situation:

I always overtake on the right and find a gap to go back in between two bumpers, if this is 3rd or 4th position, so be it. I won't stop on the right hand side of a car, always in the middle of the lane, I'd rather stop sidewise between 2 bumpers if there is not enough space.

Motorists in ASL as Mr Bunbury!

Edit: more or less like Basil.
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Julian

  • samoture
Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #9 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:35:49 pm »
Cheers all, you lot mostly do the same as me then (get behind the first car, pull off smartish, signal and hope for the best).

This is just for situations where getting ahead of the first car isn't possible - there are a lot of traffic lights on islands on my way in, and if the front car is pulled right up to it, then you can't get past.  

SlowCoach - even London motorists are better if you smile at them.  I am hugely in favour of eye contact and smiling, especially if a sodding great HGV has just pulled up behind me.  :)

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #10 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:46:04 pm »
Pretty much what's been said above, with the only slight additional tip is that I look for a 'slow' car in the queue leading up to the lights. I know the sequences and timings well enough on my route that I know how many cars in a queue will get through the next green phase, so I look for a suitably slow car that's in the group that will make it over the lights. I'll position myself slightly ahead of this car and then as the traffic moves away stay as close as possible to the car in front, then slide left whne th einevitable gap opens. Lots of over the shoulder looks help as well. Eye contact if you can manage it.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #11 on: 22 June, 2010, 01:47:09 pm »
I only have one place on my ride out of Reading each evening where this scenario is relevant.  I tend to pass all the cars on the right and pull over to the kerb at the front.  There isn't an ASL, so technically I am illegal as I'm beyond the stop line.  As the junction is on a hill (I'm going upwards, straight across Henley Road into Peppard Road for those that know Reading) and competing with the cars is not really a sensible option.  It's the only time I don't wait behind the line.

CommuteTooFar

  • Inadequate Randonneur
Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #12 on: 22 June, 2010, 02:07:47 pm »
When I was a younger more combative foolish cyclist there was a set of traffic lights with an ASL.  There was rarely a queue but the ASL was frequently occupied by a car.  I used to move in front of the car, perpendicular to the road but in the ASL.  In the summer when car windows are open I would pause when the lights changed to green and ask the driver while pointing at the traffic light "Has the light changed I cannot see it someone has stopped in my place?"

Karla

  • car(e) free
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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #13 on: 22 June, 2010, 02:54:35 pm »
Squeezing in front (perpendicular to the car) sounds like a good idea, I must try that one  O:-)

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #14 on: 22 June, 2010, 03:05:31 pm »
There shouldn't be any need to hope and pray that the car in front doesn't brake.  There's often enough space to carry on riding just to the offside of the queue across the lights, and that's where I negotiate from.  If one driver won't let you in, which occasionally happens, the one behind is almost always kind enough.  Only once I have the space would I let myself go behind the car in front so I can concentrate on them and not have to worry about them braking suddenly.

Nothing wrong with taking a gap a few cars back either - I don't need to be first in the queue, or even third.

My weakness tends to be in trying to filter too far ahead, leaving too little space and time to rejoin the queue before it starts moving, on occasion.  Nowadays I try to relax more and not be as impatient, and then the problem no longer happens.
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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #15 on: 22 June, 2010, 03:10:11 pm »
I hardly ever go to the front of the queue in such situations these days. I stop in a suitable gap some cars behind (often quite a few cars behind).

Biggsy

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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #16 on: 22 June, 2010, 03:14:35 pm »
I'm normally confident that a combination of careful positioning, timing, hard acceleration and looking behind (a stronger signal to motorists than sticking your arm out) will get me out of this sort of trouble.  Where it's failed, though, has been on a part of the 50mph A406 North Circular once.

After filting through a traffic jam and reaching the traffic lights, I found myself proceeding in the middle of the outside lane with an articulated lorry inches behind my backside.  I couldn't even see if the inside lane was safe to move to, let alone move to it.  Even a palm "give me some space!!" signal didn't get the message through to the driver to slow down.  I eventually had to create the space by busting my guts out, before waiting for a gap in the inside lane.

So, sometimes, it is worth sticking to the inside lane, despite the inconvenience of being further back in the queue.
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mattc

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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #17 on: 22 June, 2010, 05:02:13 pm »
Pretty much what's been said above, with the only slight additional tip is that I look for a 'slow' car in the queue leading up to the lights. I know the sequences and timings well enough on my route that I know how many cars in a queue will get through the next green phase, so I look for a suitably slow car that's in the group that will make it over the lights. I'll position myself slightly ahead of this car and then as the traffic moves away stay as close as possible to the car in front, then slide left whne th einevitable gap opens. Lots of over the shoulder looks help as well. Eye contact if you can manage it.

I'd forgotten about this technique - used to be standard when I commuted in cities.

It's a lot easier than it sounds - I'm no cycling ninja!

(basically if you reach the junction still moving, there will ALWAYS be a time when your speed matches the queue's - at that point, merge. Simple)
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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #18 on: 22 June, 2010, 09:47:55 pm »
My position depends on the cycle of the lights (sorry). If I  _know_ that the lights will remain red, I will almost always go to the front, or stay one back, a la lots of people here. I also position myself dependent on the signal the cars are giving, and mostly square in front. But if I'm turning up at the lights and I don't know when they will turn green, I like to make sure that I'm happy with what my position is whenever they change. If that leaves me a few cars back, so be it, it'll all sort itself out in a few seconds anyway.

urban_biker

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Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #19 on: 23 June, 2010, 09:22:44 am »
I pull up alongside the gap between the first and second car, or if it appears to be a better option, alongside the gap between the second and third car.  The gap doesn't have to be big enough to fit in.
As they pull away I more or less attach myself to the rear bumper of the front car and pray it doesn't brake.   I then move left or right depending on the speed.

+1 This is my approach. Often I'll combine it with a left indication and a smile/eye contact with the driver behind so I get let in. Just be forceful, its fairly easy to out accelerate and out react the car behind so you can slip in the gap.

*updated - of course I'm not cycling in London traffic so it might be a bit more dog-eat-dog in the smoke*
Owner of a languishing Langster

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #20 on: 23 June, 2010, 12:16:05 pm »
...
(basically if you reach the junction still moving, there will ALWAYS be a time when your speed matches the queue's - at that point, merge. Simple)

This post is the key.

If you're not going to arrive at the junction still moving, then stop a way back.  Start riding when the lights change - the cars will still be stationary in a queue.  You can then move over when their speed comes up to match yours.

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #21 on: 23 June, 2010, 02:17:34 pm »
I also do the stopping a bit back thing. I have one set of lights like this on my commute every day - getting on for 1km of passing the queue on the right then a cross roads with no ASL. I use the last left turn before the lights to get into primary in the queue - about half a dozen cars from the front. A large proportion of cars will turn left, a rather smaller set indicate and I don't want to be caught in a squeeze. On the other side of the lights is car parking for local shops, so lots of door opening and pulling out, so I want a spot where I'm in the flow, not causing surprises, and there is no question of me moving left straight after the junction.
As far as I can see ASL boxes only help if there is a safe way to get to them, that remains safe when the queue starts moving before you've got there.

Re: Road positioning advice
« Reply #22 on: 23 June, 2010, 07:56:05 pm »
...
(basically if you reach the junction still moving, there will ALWAYS be a time when your speed matches the queue's - at that point, merge. Simple)

This post is the key.

If you're not going to arrive at the junction still moving, then stop a way back.  Start riding when the lights change - the cars will still be stationary in a queue.  You can then move over when their speed comes up to match yours.

+1
It's when the cars start moving that you get a nice big gap between the cars to get into.

I sometimes do a flying start past the first car. But if you do that, make sure you're going fast enough. Some folk get very arsey if a cyclist overtakes them and they'll floor it to try and intimidate you. It's funny watching them get all wound up trying desperately to keep you on the outside when their car hasn't got the power.
It's usualy best to tuck in behind another car. If the car behind tries to bully you, they run the risk of rear ending the car in front, so they tend to sit back and feel angry. Even if they do tailgate the front car, you'll have an even bigger gap behind them to get into. Mr Angry will be too keen to try and keep you out by tailgating the front car to think that you'll drop back behind them and pull in. Even better when you filter on the left and watch them angrily trying to see you in their right mirror as you cycle past. Then there is the look of surprise when they look where they are going and see you in front of them. ;D

You don't always get Mr Angry. I've had people pull some pretty bad overtakes on approach to junctions, roundabouts and so on. Then I've done the flying start past them (sometimes I read the sitution beforehand then alter my speed so that I can fly through unhindered and accelerate) It either earns me a better overtake or a honk of the horn because I dared to overtake them immediately after they overtook me and stopped. ::-)