LTNs and children

[Cudzoziemiec]

"Just walking around is empowering for children."

In a recent study, I looked at the benefits that active travel brings for children. I found that walking through their neighbourhoods – close to home – can empower young people, giving them a greater sense of control and autonomy. This can have a positive impact on their wellbeing.

research suggests the change is a combination of street design and the increased dominance of the car, as well as a change in perception of children in public space. The children I worked with in the study certainly found main roads without a crossing point barriers to their movement around. They wouldn’t have felt safe crossing them alone.

https://theconversation.com/how-just-walking-around-even-when-accompanied-by-an-adult-is-empowering-for-children-201410

I wonder if that perception of children in public space – that it isn't safe for children to be there unaccompanied, and if they are there, they're probably up to no good – isn't a factor in opposition to LTNs.

[Kim]

Maybe not consciously?  I'm sure most of the opposition to LTNs comes from one of three basic positions:
1) It interferes with my right to drive and is therefore bad.
2) It's change and is therefore bad.
3) It's the sort of thing the tofu-eating wokerati are in favour of and is therefore bad.

But that certainly doesn't rule out a "If we make the space safer for children, children will appear in it, which is bad because I'm BRITISH and I hate/fear young people by default" thought process.

[toontra]

I'm lucky to live in a few streets which were formed into an LTN over 40 years ago (entry blocked on 3 of the 4 access points).  It's fantastic.  Families with young kids play out in the street and it's generally quiet and "safe".  It really is an oasis in otherwise frenetic central London.

The only downside historically was it was quite difficult giving directions to drivers on how to get to my house.  Of course with satnavs that's no longer an issue.

There are plans afoot to extend the LNT to include more of the ward.  Predictably there has been uproar from the usual nutjobs including, ironically, some of my neighbours in the existing LTN.

[trundle]

Maybe not consciously?  I'm sure most of the opposition to LTNs comes from one of three basic positions:
1) It interferes with my right to drive and is therefore bad.
2) It's change and is therefore bad.
3) It's the sort of thing the tofu-eating wokerati are in favour of and is therefore bad.

But that certainly doesn't rule out a "If we make the space safer for children, children will appear in it, which is bad because I'm BRITISH and I hate/fear young people by default" thought process.

On our very Guardian street - the level of rage was off the scale. And I’m sure it’s because people recognise  that an LTN is calling them out as eco hypocrites. They recycle, they use bags for life, but they also drive 1/2 mile to the gym. An LTN means they have to drive 2 miles to the gym. (This was a real complaint). In the end comfort and convenience is a deeply valued entitlement - and I think many people didn’t like discovering that about themselves, and looked to transfer blame elsewhere.

[ian]

We walked to a pub the other night, about 30 minutes at 6.30 pm, constant stream of cars down the road for the entire walk. Number of other pedestrians encountered? Zero.

[sparklyfish]

I think you're onto the right track here. I have organised a number of Playing Out sessions in my village, and have given up due to the antagonism from people driving cars. The road is legally closed with a Temporary Traffic Restriction Order, so that kids (and adults!) can reclaim the space and play out together. The worst situation I had was someone drove around the road closed barriers, overtaking my marshals towards children playing... On that occasion, the police did go and have a little chat afterwards, and magically the angry neighbours decided to be out for the next Playing Out session. But it was enough to scare me off doing any more sessions the following year. 

[mmmmartin]

Number of other pedestrians encountered? Zero.

All my bikes have mirrors: when riding in town and i see a car coming up behind i get up on the pavement until it's passed. Number of times i see a pedestrian most weeks? Zero.

[L CC]

Out here where the air is clear and the people are all on long term sick/disability benefits / state pensions /low wages / universal credit there's always a body or two walking to a shop or a bus stop.

Make cars too expensive and people use their legs.

Source: County Durham Poverty Action Plan

[tom_e]

There are plans afoot to extend the LNT to include more of the ward.  Predictably there has been uproar from the usual nutjobs including, ironically, some of my neighbours in the existing LTN.

I think this is selfish logical actually.  People want the space close to their house to be safe and quiet, but they want to be able to drive faster for their own journeys as soon as they're off their own street.  LTN around your own house, but the right to be Mr Toad in the entire rest of the world.

[toontra]

There are plans afoot to extend the LNT to include more of the ward.  Predictably there has been uproar from the usual nutjobs including, ironically, some of my neighbours in the existing LTN.

I think this is selfish logical actually.  People want the space close to their house to be safe and quiet, but they want to be able to drive faster for their own journeys as soon as they're off their own street.  LTN around your own house, but the right to be Mr Toad in the entire rest of the world.

That's precisely it.  No-one I speak to (including the knuckleheads) would like their own LTN removed but are incensed that others may benefit from an extension.  As Trundle says, people moan cause it means an extra mile driving to the gym.

I posted elsewhere about the consultation meetings which were infiltrated and disrupted by conspiracy loons.

[Kim]

Out here where the air is clear and the people are all on long term sick/disability benefits / state pensions /low wages / universal credit there's always a body or two walking to a shop or a bus stop.

I think it's really easy to underestimate the volume of non-motorised traffic.

As a, well, nerd, I've been hosting a Telraam traffic counter on behalf of the optimistically named Car Free Cities Birmingham since last summer.  It's basically a Raspberry Pi with a camera that peers out of my window and uses machine-vision voodoo to determine the direction, speed and type^[1] of traffic as it goes past.

Averaged over the last 6 months (the most I can return in a single database query), the traffic types are:

Pedestrian: 23.62 %
Two-wheeler: 30.16 %
Car: 40.43 %
Large vehicle: 5.79 %

I'd take the two-wheeler to pedestrian ratio with a large pinch of salt, as I don't think it does a very good job classifying either scooterboys or pedestrians with luggages, and it can mis-classify groups.  As a student area pedestrians aren't rare, by any means, but it still surprised me that well over half the traffic was non-motorised.

Footways, like cycle lanes and railways look under-utilised because they're efficient.


[1]Using a cunning algorithm that works a lot better than you'd expect it to.

[aidan.f]

I read through that link - 'spose it will class a recumbent tricylist as a car from 'fullness' - yes I know, an outlier but just for the record..

[perpetual dan]

I read through that link - 'spose it will class a recumbent tricylist as a car from 'fullness' - yes I know, an outlier but just for the record..

I thought the same about a fully loaded touring bike ridden in the drops!

[Kim]

I read through that link - 'spose it will class a recumbent tricylist as a car from 'fullness' - yes I know, an outlier but just for the record..

I thought the same about a fully loaded touring bike ridden in the drops!

I've wondered about this sort of thing, but not to the point of modifying their code to show what it's thinking in real time.  (It just collects stats and squirts some JSON at the server at regular intervals.)

[Cudzoziemiec]

Does it distinguish between motorised and non-motorised two-wheelers? By motorised I'm thinking of motorbikes, motor scooters and mopeds, not electric bikes and e-scooters – just to be clear. But it seems as if it just has the one category of "two wheeler" to cover anything on two (or, I imagine, occasionally three) wheels.

[Kim]

Does it distinguish between motorised and non-motorised two-wheelers? By motorised I'm thinking of motorbikes, motor scooters and mopeds, not electric bikes and e-scooters – just to be clear. But it seems as if it just has the one category of "two wheeler" to cover anything on two (or, I imagine, occasionally three) wheels.

No, there's no reasonable way to do that based on aspect ratio and fullness, hence 'two wheelers'.

[rogerzilla]

Perennial right-wing rentagob Laurence Fox has been at LT protests in Oxford.  I hope, for everyone's sake, he didn't take his guitar with him.